Bumrah will win us the series.

[Clarke]

27 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

He didn't bowl badly? Did you miss the 5 innings in which he ended up taking just 9 wickets? Statistically he was the worst frontline seamer in the series. He bowled poorly in the first test, was simply inconsistent with his line and length, didn't do much in the second test either. Sure the batters can be blamed but when you're the worst seamer, with at least 6 or 7 seamers outperforming you, including the debutant Ngidi, then clearly you've not done your job.

Bhai, it was first test match/series abroad against a good team for who was essentially a limited overs specialist. Let's not be harsh and allow the guy to grow, which he did going by 3rd test. 

[R!TTER]

5 minutes ago, Clarke said:

Bhai, it was first test match/series abroad against a good team for who was essentially a limited overs specialist. Let's not be harsh and allow the guy to grow, which he did going by 3rd test. 

That's why I said he needs experience, lots of it. IIRC that was his first FC game in nearly 2 years. The conditions were tailor made for quicks in SA, he did OK. In places like England or Aus, he'll have to do lots more to take wickets. For India's sake I hope he does well, but we shouldn't be over reliant on him. He's our best LO quick and we have able replacements in tests but making him play all the tests and LO will make him injury prone, what's worse is that he could also lose form big time. Kohli's done the same with Kuldeep on this tour thus far.

Edited July 20, 2018 by R!TTER

[Suhaan]

Iam not here to brand him as saviour,he was neither too bad nor was average,he grabbed 15 wickets which is not bad for a debutant,its ridiculously unfair to term him worst and not to consider playing test again

He will only improve from here,by Indian standards he is one of the most matured young fast bowler ..

[R!TTER]

6 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Iam not here to brand him as saviour,he was neither too bad nor was average,he grabbed 15 wickets which is not bad for a debutant,its ridiculously unfair to term him worst and not to consider playing test again

He will only improve from here,by Indian standards he is one of the most matured young fast bowler ..

He was below avg, 14 wickets (not 15) at 25+ is fine for a debutant, but hardly worth mentioning considering the rest of the pack.

 

In case you missed it, check the thread title. In case you missed the moral of the story, reread my last post and why I mentioned the 2004 Aus tour of India.

Edited July 20, 2018 by R!TTER

[rkt.india]

dont think this team has the ability to win a test series overseas against SENA.  They could have won ODI series and they lost the opportunity.  When you dont play two of the best performers with the bat in your premier domestic tournament that just ended before the series, you are destined to lose and they did. Rahul and Pant should have played in LOIs.  Rahul shoul dhave opened or bat at 3 even if Rohit or Kohli had to come down.

[Suhaan]

 

9 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

He was below avg, 14 wickets (not 15) at 25+ is fine for a debutant, but hardly worth mentioning considering the rest of the pack.

 

In case you missed it, check the thread title. In case you missed the moral of the story, reread my last post and why I mentioned the 2004 Aus tour of India.

 

Does anything which  I post under the current thread title, suggest Iam over rating him?No,i was responding to your rejection of Bumrah,despite knowing the fact  that it was his debut series overseas against a  formidable test team..

Edited July 20, 2018 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

Stop over hyping him, in 6 test innings in SA he was the worst seamer, only outbowled Pandya! Given the favorable conditions, he should've won us a game at least. Since he didn't, his test credentials are still unproven.

 

Didnt he win us third test with 5-fer in first innings? even in second innings, he took out ABDV and Decock

[R!TTER]

2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

 

 

Does the thread title suggest Iam over rating him?No,i was responding to your rejection of Bumrah,despite knowing the fact  that it was his debut series overseas against a  formidable test team..

You're still missing the point, for a 3rd seamer did he bowl consistently enough? My argument is nope, the other 3 main seamers from India outbowled him. Surely you watched the series, can you count the number of spells he was devastating in? As opposed to the spells where he let SA off the hook?

 

That was once in a lifetime opportunity for India to win in SA, you're not allowed excuses for debutante. As rkt said, could've should've would've sound nice but you don't make such mistakes knowing the risks vs reward. In tests experience is worth more than potential, this is why Aus banked on Gillespie and Kasper, not Lee who bowled 100+ mph just last year in the WC.

[rkt.india]

42 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Yes, when opposition bowlers have sub 20 bowling avg and most of your team mates also avg under 20 with the ball, it is bad. Is it so bad that he need not apply for tests anymore - NO, but stop making him as some sort of a savior. Kumar was our best bowler that series, then comes Sharma and Shami.

Kumar did not play on Centurian patta.

[R!TTER]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kumar did not play on Centurian patta.

OK, using the same logic Sharma didn't play in Cape Town either. Kumar's batting could've been more than handy in Centurion.

Edited July 20, 2018 by R!TTER

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You're still missing the point, for a 3rd seamer did he bowl consistently enough? My argument is nope, the other 3 main seamers from India outbowled him. Surely you watched the series, can you count the number of spells he was devastating in? As opposed to the spells where he let SA off the hook?

 

That was once in a lifetime opportunity for India to win in SA, you're not allowed excuses for debutante. As rkt said, could've should've would've sound nice but you don't make such mistakes knowing the risks vs reward. In tests experience is worth more than potential, this is why Aus banked on Gillespie and Kasper, not Lee who bowled 100+ mph just last year in the WC.

Not really. Apart from first first innings early on where he bowled too full trying to get. no Indian bowler really outbowled him. Shami was the worst, rubbish throughout the series except last innings where he suddenly picked up steam and got 5-fer mostly tail.  Bumrah was the only Indian bowler who looked like picking up a wicket at Centurian and he kept all SA batsman on their toes and honest throughout the 5 innings of the series except first innings where he bowled a bit too full.

[Suhaan]

12 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You're still missing the point, for a 3rd seamer did he bowl consistently enough? My argument is nope, the other 3 main seamers from India outbowled him. Surely you watched the series, can you count the number of spells he was devastating in? As opposed to the spells where he let SA off the hook?

 

That was once in a lifetime opportunity for India to win in SA, you're not allowed excuses for debutante. As rkt said, could've should've would've sound nice but you don't make such mistakes knowing the risks vs reward. In tests experience is worth more than potential, this is why Aus banked on Gillespie and Kasper, not Lee who bowled 100+ mph just last year in the WC.

Shami too let that happen,who happens to be a pro,Why dont you get it?Bowlers are made from tours like this,He didnt bowl too badly ,as per your claim..Shami was the second best pacer from either side but he too landed deliveries which let Sa off the hook,but for a debutant in overseas conditions Bumrah did very well

Edited July 20, 2018 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

OK, using the same logic Sharma didn't play in Cape Town either. Kumar's batting could've been more than handy in Centurion.

you were talking about Kumar being the best bowler. now you bring Sharma, for what?

[Pollack]

Damn! We are still stuck with Ishant and he will definitely play. Spoils my mood to watch this interesting series. When are we going to throw Ishant out forever? I don't even mind rookies play and fail. But please fgs no Ishant. I can even watch Taher Shahs Angel for 10-20 minutes but a single over from Ishant makes me bored to death.

[rkt.india]

11 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You're still missing the point, for a 3rd seamer did he bowl consistently enough? My argument is nope, the other 3 main seamers from India outbowled him. Surely you watched the series, can you count the number of spells he was devastating in? As opposed to the spells where he let SA off the hook?

 

No Indian bowler really stood out in that SA test series, IMO. they all bowled filth at times and brute at times.  You are talking about BK.  He was thrashed at 5 rpo in the first test first innngs.

[R!TTER]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

No Indian bowler really stood out in that SA test series, IMO. they all bowled filth at times and brute at times.  You are talking about BK.  He was thrashed at 5 rpo in the first test first innngs.

Agreed, but he was the worst of the lot. Can you deny that?

 

After picking up 3 main scalps, this is where the 3rd seamer comes in. FYI 3/12 within the first half hour, the first match we let drift away in the first innings itself. A better set of backup seamers could've restricted SA to under 200 & we may have won that game, Sharma's selection notwithstanding.

[R!TTER]

16 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Damn! We are still stuck with Ishant and he will definitely play. Spoils my mood to watch this interesting series. When are we going to throw Ishant out forever? I don't even mind rookies play and fail. But please fgs no Ishant. I can even watch Taher Shahs Angel for 10-20 minutes but a single over from Ishant makes me bored to death.

A fit Ishant on a green seamer isn't such a bad option, on a flat deck he's probably India's worst nightmare atm but it's not like we're spoilt for choices.

[Lala]

Bumrah is the best bowler so far India has. Definitely he will win you the series. 

[Vk1]

From what I understand, bounce will not help you much in England and on the contrary you will get hit for boundaries. You definitely need to swing preferably outswing to pick wickets. How effectively can Bumrah do this needs to be seen.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

Agreed, but he was the worst of the lot. Can you deny that?

 

After picking up 3 main scalps, this is where the 3rd seamer comes in. FYI 3/12 within the first half hour, the first match we let drift away in the first innings itself. A better set of backup seamers could've restricted SA to under 200 & we may have won that game, Sharma's selection notwithstanding.

that was just one innings. His first innings in test cricket.  It takes time to know the lengths to bowl and adjust to it.  He wrong bowled lengths. While Bumrah learned quickly from his mistake in second innings and picked 3. BK got thrashed at 5 rpo in that same innings. Even Shami was rubbish in that innings. Actually Shami was worse than Bumrah who was playing his first test but at the end of the series Bumrah was our best bowler.  He was the only bowler through out the series who never dropped the intensity even on the unresponsive Centurian track, he made life difficult for batsmen.