Please drop Pandya to maintain Test cricket’s sanctity.

[rkt.india]

Bunny and Lal average 22-23 with the bat with 5 50s and 0 100.

[sarcastic]

@The Outsider, it is really awesome to see you posting on the forum. Miss those days of fights between you and @BossBhai. 

[The Outsider]

Poal added and OP updated:

 

Sobers: Batting average - 58; Bowling average - 34 (2.5 Wickets per test)

Kapil: Batting average - 31; Bowling average - 29 (3.5 Wickets per test)

Flintoff: Batting average - 32; Bowling average - 33 (2.75 Wickets per test)

Watson: Batting average - 35; Bowling average - 34 (1.25 Wickets per test)

Shastri: Batting average - 36; Bowling average - 41 (1.9 Wickets per test)

Prabhakar: Batting average - 33; Bowling average - 37 (2.4 Wickets per test)

Abdul Razzaq: Batting average - 29; Bowling average - 37 (2.2 Wickets per test)

Madan Lal: Batting average - 23; Bowling average - 40 (1.8 Wickets per test)

Abid Ali: Batting average - 20; Bowling average - 42 (1.6 Wickets per test)

Ronnie Irani: Batting average - 17; Bowling average - 37 (1 Wicket per test)

 

I think Pandya will surpass Ronnie Irani and Abid Ali, but fall a bit short of Madan Lal, with a bit of role reversal in that Pandya's batting will be the relatively stronger suite.

[Straight Drive]

A trend which Dhoni started continues to destroy the end performance. Process was more important under Dhoni. Seems even now there is so much emphasis on just the process and lack of accountability which continues to produce bad results. The approach is very casual than result oriented. Witha losers mentality that it is just about process and not about results more away series loses are bound to happen. Hey, wait for the home test series and IPL. Rohit will call Steyn and Co. to bowl to our players in India and someone else will ask Sam Curran to come to India. That should solve the woes. 

 

South Africa series was lost 2-1. Not that it was a shocker, it was well expected. Here too in England, the team is looking at another series defeat being on backfoot staring at results of 0-1.

 

As long as batsmen just turn up to take a stance and do fielding for both innings, it has become immaterial that they average below 10, below 21. The same show which was showcased to fans in SA needs to be showcased here. As long as all-rounder has bowling SR of 88 it is fine because he is used for rotating the bowlers and rest them. new definitions, you know !!

Let the wicket-keeper drop few catches. All well because he is doing the process of getting down and up ball after ball. So fine whatever the end results are, he tried.

 

If everything is fine then where are the series win, where are the positive results ? Why are negative results being accepted ? Has the losers mentality fully sulked into the team processes ? IS there any accountability at all at international level sport where results are more important ? Or is it the weekend club level cricket? Batting karo, fielding karo, bowling karo. Haar to khel me hoti rehti hai.

[Number]

7 hours ago, sandeep said:

 a role that the team desperately needs.   

I am sort of ready to wait and see whether Pandya will be able to justify his place in the XI. Howewer I dont agree with this part. Our team of 2002-2010 did quite well with 6 batsmen and 3/2 pacers 1/2 spinners.

ATG Australia of 95-05 did well without an all rounder too.

We don't desperately need an AR. 6 solid batsmen with 4 proper bowlers( all of them wicket takers) are good enough for a team to do well.

 

[Number]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Pandya plays as a 6th batsman. Why are you ignoring this. Already has a 100 and a 70 odd in SC test matches. Who you want to play in his place in SC?

Do you feel Pandya is good enough to play as a pure batsman in tests ?

[rkt.india]

50 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

A trend which Dhoni started continues to destroy the end performance. Process was more important under Dhoni. Seems even now there is so much emphasis on just the process and lack of accountability which continues to produce bad results. The approach is very casual than result oriented. Witha losers mentality that it is just about process and not about results more away series loses are bound to happen. Hey, wait for the home test series and IPL. Rohit will call Steyn and Co. to bowl to our players in India and someone else will ask Sam Curran to come to India. That should solve the woes. 

 

When did we actually get results overseas against top teams? we have never won a series in Aus-SA.

[rkt.india]

11 minutes ago, Number said:

I am sort of ready to wait and see whether Pandya will be able to justify his place in the XI. Howewer I dont agree with this part. Our team of 2002-2010 did quite well with 6 batsmen and 3/2 pacers 1/2 spinners.

ATG Australia of 95-05 did well without an all rounder too.

We don't desperately need an AR. 6 solid batsmen with 4 proper bowlers( all of them wicket takers) are good enough for a team to do well.

 

and you may not agree but Pandya is as good any batsman you will play at 6.  ATG Aus had someone like steve waugh, mark waugh, lehman, symonds to bowl a few overs.  even indian team of had SRT, Viru, Ganguly who were decent bowlers.

Edited August 7, 2018 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Number said:

Do you feel Pandya is good enough to play as a pure batsman in tests ?

Of course. He is a batsman who can bowl a few overs right now and overtime, his bowling will get better.   It is useless to play 5th bowler because 5th bowler is always under bowled like Pandya himself has been.  And then you do need someone who can bowl a few overs and could also pick up a wicket or two and he fits the bill.        

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, The Outsider said:

Poal added and OP updated:

 

Sobers: Batting average - 58; Bowling average - 34 (2.5 Wickets per test)

Kapil: Batting average - 31; Bowling average - 29 (3.5 Wickets per test)

Flintoff: Batting average - 32; Bowling average - 33 (2.75 Wickets per test)

Watson: Batting average - 35; Bowling average - 34 (1.25 Wickets per test)

Shastri: Batting average - 36; Bowling average - 41 (1.9 Wickets per test)

Prabhakar: Batting average - 33; Bowling average - 37 (2.4 Wickets per test)

Abdul Razzaq: Batting average - 29; Bowling average - 37 (2.2 Wickets per test)

Madan Lal: Batting average - 23; Bowling average - 40 (1.8 Wickets per test)

Abid Ali: Batting average - 20; Bowling average - 42 (1.6 Wickets per test)

Ronnie Irani: Batting average - 17; Bowling average - 37 (1 Wicket per test)

 

I think Pandya will surpass Ronnie Irani and Abid Ali, but fall a bit short of Madan Lal, with a bit of role reversal in that Pandya's batting will be the relatively stronger suite.

He is certainly better than bits and pieces Ronnie Irani . Yup, in test format i think his batting average will remain better than that of Madan Lal and bowling average of Abdul Razzak if he works very hard on his bowling.

[shortbread]

Jadeja is a better bet than pandya. 3 proper Pacers and two spinners will be ideal. Pandua's bowling is ineffective.

 

Both jadeja and pandya are unreliable with bat. Jadeja makes it up on the field.

 

If the pitch is really dry, then Kuldeep is an option.

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, shortbread said:

Jadeja is a better bet than pandya. 3 proper Pacers and two spinners will be ideal. Pandua's bowling is ineffective.

 

Both jadeja and pandya are unreliable with bat. Jadeja makes it up on the field.

 

If the pitch is really dry, then Kuldeep is an option.

we dont need a specialist 5th bowler.  we need a batsman who can bowl a few.  Pandya does that. Can you tell me which batsman is reliable in this team accept Kohli to some extent? you want to drop your second best batsman?

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, Khota said:

We still don't have. Gavaskar just confirmed it.

gavaskar also wants rohit to play test cricket .........

gavaskar was angry when rahane was dropped from t20

 

uska khiske zamaana ho gaya

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, Khota said:

Not at all. All he said and I agree is that in 100 years India just had one allrounder. I think I said that one year back. If he agrees with me I am not going to dispute that.

I saw his interview

He said please dnt compare him to kapil , kapil is a once in a centuary player..........n i agree with him

But my question what are u achieving with this comparison. All this is good for discussion.........on field a captain knws what his team needs 

[Number]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Of course. He is a batsman who can bowl a few overs right now and overtime, his bowling will get better.   It is useless to play 5th bowler because 5th bowler is always under bowled like Pandya himself has been.  And then you do need someone who can bowl a few overs and could also pick up a wicket or two and he fits the bill.        

In my opinion he will have to improve by some margin to be a proper no. 6. He was sent at no. 8 just last innings. If his batting average remains in 30-35 range he isn't the right choice.

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, Number said:

In my opinion he will have to improve by some margin to be a proper no. 6. He was sent at no. 8 just last innings. If his batting average remains in 30-35 range he isn't the right choice.

he was sent at 8 because Ashwin was sent as night watchman.  Rahane also batted at 6 and not his usual 5.

[rkt.india]

14 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

gavaskar also wants rohit to play test cricket .........

gavaskar was angry when rahane was dropped from t20

 

uska khiske zamaana ho gaya

 

Gavaskar also said he will play Pandya.  He did not say Pandya should be dropped.  

[Lannister]

One thing for sure is we can not tag Pandya as an all-rounder in Test cricket. His bowling is almost non-existent and expendable. A bowling average of 45 with a SR of 88 is beyond pathetic. Then if he's there as a batsman, is he really the best we have got in the country at 6/7? We need an additional bowler as we cannot depend on dollies to take wickets in Test cricket. 

[R!TTER]

Just now, Lannister said:

One thing for sure is we can not tag Pandya as an all-rounder in Test cricket. His bowling is almost non-existent and expendable. A bowling average of 45 with a SR of 88 is beyond pathetic. Then if he's there as a batsman, is he really the best we have got in the country at 6/7? We need an additional bowler as we cannot depend on dollies to take wickets in Test cricket. 

But you see "some experts" will tell you that an A/R is a relief bowler, who's not expected to take wickets, but will eventually get them if he's bowled (long) enough.

 

England and India will be tempted to play two spinners in the second Test as a heat wave continues to sweep through London. With temperatures hitting the mid-thirties consistently, the challenge for the Lord's groundstaff has been to ensure there is enough moisture in the pitch to produce an even contest.

 

ESPNcricinfo understands this summer has been the most difficult ever at Lord's. The closest they had come to fighting against such oppressive heat was in 1976, but that match between England and West Indies was played a lot earlier, in mid-June. Surely Mick Hunt, the head groundsman who retires at the end of this season, would have like more helpful conditions for this farewell Test.

 

The surface remained under hover cover all through Monday to protect it from the relentless sun, but there is some reason to be optimistic. The mercury is set to slide down into the early twenties from Thursday and weather turning much cooler.

 

Pundits already believe both India and England - who begin training on Tuesday - may be thinking of playing an extra spinner. England's white-ball captain Eoin Morgan, who also leads the local county side Middlesex, reckoned conditions are likely to have "quite a significant" effect on the pitch.

 

"Lord's is a ground with a magnificent pitch, but with the way the weather has been, it is so difficult to keep the moisture not only in the pitch but actually in the square," Morgan said. "I think it will be quite similar to Edgbaston. You will have to assume it will turn and probably reverse swing will play a big part as well."

 

Later, when asked to put on the England selector's hat, Morgan chuckled and said: "I think you will have to consider two spinners. Everybody was surprised that both sides didn't go in with two spinners in the last game which probably took India away what naturally comes to them. At home they play two spinners. Both sides will look to play two spinners."

 

Former India offspinner Harbhajan Singh was of a similar mind. "India made a mistake even at Edgbaston going with one spinner. They could have gone with Kuldeep Yadav instead of Hardik Pandya even at Edgbaston, where the conditions were dry, the wicket was dry, where you know the sun is going to be out. So, India, they didn't read the conditions well. They went ahead choosing four fast bowlers and one spinner which didn't help them. Though they bowled beautifully, all seamers, but Hardik Pandya didn't bowl and didn't bat as the team wanted him to. So why play him?"

 

Harbhajan then explained why he would choose Kuldeep over Pandya or Ravindra Jadeja at Lord's. "He will create chances. He bowls googlies, legspin with the left hand. On the first day, suppose India were to lose the toss and they are still bowling (at the end of the day), this guy will create chances on a good track. Right hander or left-hander, Kuldeep is the guy because he (can) spin the ball both ways"

 

Former England captain Nasser Hussain, however, was less convinced. "Historically, it is not a ground I would go to and play two spinners. You look up at the Honours Board in both dressing rooms, there's the odd occasion, Swann I think, where spin plays a massive role. Shane Warne never got five wickets here."

 

Hussain suggested that India - more than England - would be contemplating the idea of playing two spinners, provided it didn't disrupt the "balance" of their XI. "Just with the summer you are having there is a good argument to say if you can balance your side still to get two spinners in. India might. Now they [England] have got more right-handers and if [Ollie] Pope and [Chris] Woakesplay, you may want someone spinning it the other way, whether it be Jadeja or Kuldeep bowling his variations with a bit of mystery about it. So I would be more prone to India saying we will play two spinners than England."

 

Asked if would field both Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid at Lord's, Hussain said only if he was convinced the pitch was a "raging turner" and added he would have "actually played" Moeen ahead of Dawid Malan at Edgbaston since it wouldn't have had any impact on the balance of England batting but would have offered them another spin option. "Now that they have picked Pope I would probably have to play Pope. Unless you think it is going to be an absolute raging Bunsen, you could play one seamer less and Moeen. But it would have to be a raging turner to make that (change) because obviously lot of right-handers in the Indian side."

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/24306809/the-heat-play-two-spinners-lords

Edited August 7, 2018 by R!TTER

[Lannister]

5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

But you see "some experts" will tell you that an A/R is a relief bowler, who's not expected to take wickets, but will eventually get them if he's bowled (long) enough.

That's a ridiculous assessment as we are not gifted with top quality blowers to waste a Test spot on Pandya and his bowling. If he's the best batsman we have got then sure get him in the team in place of a specialist batsman. But is he really the best batsman?