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Importance of Hardik Pandya

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Hardik has played 11 tests so far. Of the 11 tests, 10 tests have been away. Out of these 10 tests, India has won 5. And in these 5 tests, Hardik, who has played in different conditions, has an avg difference  (batting avg less  bowling avg) of 26! :shock:

 

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Primary team India remove India from query
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Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017 remove greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017 from query
Match result won match remove won match from query
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3 remove matches played greater than or equal to 3 from query
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Overall figures
Player Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave DiffDescending  
HH Pandya 5 252 108 42.00 1 10 5/28 16.30 1 6 0 25.70 investigate this query
R Ashwin 4 147 54 36.75 0 18 5/69 27.05 1 0 0 9.69 investigate this query
Mohammed Shami 5 98 30 14.00 0 18 5/28 21.38 1 1 0 -7.38 investigate this query
UT Yadav 3 22 11* - 0 6 2/21 35.83 0 0 0 - investigate this query
S Dhawan 4 437 190 72.83 2 - - - - 4 0 - investigate this query
V Kohli 5 456 103* 65.14 2 - - - - 4 0 - investigate this query
CA Pujara 5 446 153 55.75 2 - - - - 4 0 - investigate this query
AM Rahane 5 396 132 56.57 1 - - - - 11 0 - investigate this query
KL Rahul 4 217 85 36.16 0 - - - - 9 0 - investigate this query
WP Saha 3 99 67 33.00 0 - - - - 8 2 -

 

Also, 1 100 and 1 5-er already in his short test career in Ind's wins away

Edited by zen

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A allrounder gets 2 opportunity. One with bat, One with ball. So together he has allmost double the opportunity. A allrounder must be among best 4 scorers of a settled side or among best 2 bowlers of side.

With pandya, I was hoping that he will increase his pace and accuracy and become a swing bowler of a quality better than Bhuvi and Shami (specially on overseas tracks) and bat better or equal to Rahane.

 

Unfortunately, He is not showing any sign of improvement to his potential. If he cant see green shoots in next six months, He can be safely dropped. Also if there is a youngster who can bowl and bat, please drop Pandya immediately

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2 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

As i earlier said, he is the least of the problems in this team .More severe problems like Dhawan,Rahul,Kartik,Pujara need to be solved first.

Add Rahane too to the list

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7 minutes ago, mishra said:

A allrounder gets 2 opportunity. One with bat, One with ball. So together he has allmost double the opportunity. A allrounder must be among best 4 scorers of a settled side or among best 2 bowlers of side.

With pandya, I was hoping that he will increase his pace and accuracy and become a swing bowler of a quality better than Bhuvi and Shami (specially on overseas tracks) and bat better or equal to Rahane.

 

If that happened, he would be rated as Ind's best AT player by many 

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First the bowling coach should work with him on pitching deliveries on a same spot ball after ball over after over . He sprays the balls more than a broken water hose. He regularly undoes the good work done by the other bowlers in any given format.

 

Teach him the value of line and length first and bowling fewer extras.

Edited by Stan AF

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On another note, it is good to see Ind win 5 of its last 10 tests overseas. In Kapil's days, I am not sure if Ind won 5 tests in the entire tenure. Ind won 2 in Eng in 1986. There may not be too many 

 

PS

 

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Primary team India remove India from query
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Match result won match remove won match from query
Involving the player N Kapil Dev (INDIA) remove N Kapil Dev (INDIA) from query
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Overall figures
Player Span MatDescending Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff  
N Kapil Dev 1981-1993 4 95 35 15.83 0 16 5/28 19.25 1 2 0 -3.41 investigate this query
M Azharuddin 1986-1993 3 111 33 18.50 0 - - - - 6 0 - investigate this query
SM Gavaskar 1981-1986 3 172 70 28.66 0 - - - - 1 0 - investigate this query
KS More 1986-1993 3 81 36* 27.00 0 - - - - 15 0 - investigate this query
DB Vengsarkar 1981-1986 3 375 126* 93.75 2 - - - - 1 0 - investigate this query
RMH Binny 1986-1986 2 41 26 13.66 0 11 5/40 14.27 1 2 0 -0.60 investigate this query
Maninder Singh 1986-1986 2 10 6 3.33 0 8 4/26 10.00 0 1 0 -6.66 investigate this query
RJ Shastri 1986-1986 2 56 32 18.66 0 3 1/5 25.66 0 1 0 -6.99 investigate this query
K Srikkanth 1986-1986 2 59 31 14.75 0 - - - - 3 0 - investigate this query
Edited by zen

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3 minutes ago, zen said:

If that happened, he would be rated as Ind's best AT player by many 

Yes, we look for AT player. Indian team and fans can not survive with one AT player (Kohli). Allrounder has to be AT or near AT.  Because he gets 4 chances. He can succed more or he will be seen failing more. Unless he wants to be a AT, i dont care if he is picked or dropped. 

As i said, i expected him to work hard. Saw his interview after Fiver at Trent Bridge. When asked comparison with  KD , He "cockily" says "I want to remain Pandya", 

I was like, "abey bc, you should smile and say, I am lucky to be compared but i am nowhere near him".

shashtri's cockyness is spreading on team

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3 minutes ago, mishra said:

Yes, we look for AT player. Indian team and fans can not survive with one AT player (Kohli). Allrounder has to be AT or near AT.  Because he gets 4 chances. He can succed more or he will be seen failing more. Unless he wants to be a AT, i dont care if he is picked or dropped. 

As i said, i expected him to work hard. Saw his interview after Fiver at Trent Bridge. When asked comparison with  KD , He "cockily" says "I want to remain Pandya", 

I was like, "abey bc, you should smile and say, I am lucky to be compared but i am nowhere near him".

shashtri's cockyness is spreading on team

It appears as if you misconstrued what he said -> it is ok to be compared but if things go wrong the same people say that he is not KD. Which is why .... 

 

Let's not create yardsticks to ensure that a player does not measure up even if he is doing reasonably well 

Edited by zen

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3 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Rahane avg:s 50+  in 3 of SENA. He avg:s almost 30 in ENG too..

He is a SENA specialists though so a lot more is expected from him. Has regressed this season

Edited by zen

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3 minutes ago, zen said:

It appears as if you misconstrued what he said -> it is ok to be compared but if things go wrong the same people say that he is not KD. Which is why .... 

 

Let's not create yardsticks to ensure that a player does not measure up even if he is doing reasonably well 

Current rate of improvement in performance is not acceptable.

because it loks zero. We can allways forward his space to some batsman.

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1 minute ago, zen said:

He is a SENA specialists though so a lot more is expected from him. Has regressed this season

Good and bad patches will allways be there. He is perfect where he is.

we need is 2 openers and more gritty performance from Pandya

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5 minutes ago, mishra said:

Current rate of improvement in performance is not acceptable.

because it loks zero. We can allways forward his space to some batsman.

First we have to optimize the 5 specialist batting slots. If the reserve is that good, he can replace one of the struggling batsmen 

 

For e.g. If Pandya is avg 25 with the bat in this series, you want the specialist to avg around 35 or more each, which is not happening. Then you bring in someone who avg 35 or more, it could help if Pandya is not bowling well. Here he won us a test with his bowling performance though  

Edited by zen

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56 minutes ago, zen said:

Hardik has played 11 tests so far. Of the 11 tests, 10 tests have been away. Out of these 10 tests, India has won 5. And in these 5 tests, Hardik, who has played in different conditions, has an avg difference  (batting avg less  bowling avg) of 26! :shock:

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Home or away away (home of opposition) remove away (home of opposition) from query
Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017 remove greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017 from query
Match result won match remove won match from query
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3 remove matches played greater than or equal to 3 from query
Ordered by batting - bowling average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 10 of 10   First pageFirst Previous pagePrevious Next Next page Last Last page dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
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Overall figures
Player Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave DiffDescending  
HH Pandya 5 252 108 42.00 1 10 5/28 16.30 1 6 0 25.70 investigate this query
R Ashwin 4 147 54 36.75 0 18 5/69 27.05 1 0 0 9.69 investigate this query
Mohammed Shami 5 98 30 14.00 0 18 5/28 21.38 1 1 0 -7.38 investigate this query
UT Yadav 3 22 11* - 0 6 2/21 35.83 0 0 0 - investigate this query
S Dhawan 4 437 190 72.83 2 - - - - 4 0 - investigate this query
V Kohli 5 456 103* 65.14 2 - - - - 4 0 - investigate this query
CA Pujara 5 446 153 55.75 2 - - - - 4 0 - investigate this query
AM Rahane 5 396 132 56.57 1 - - - - 11 0 - investigate this query
KL Rahul 4 217 85 36.16 0 - - - - 9 0 - investigate this query
WP Saha 3 99 67 33.00 0 - - - - 8 2 -

 

Also, 1 100 and 1 5-er already in his short test career in Ind's wins away

Sorry but you have to remove that R from importance 

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In the 3rd test in Eng:

 

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Opposition team England remove England from query
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Overall figures
Player Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave DiffDescending  
HH Pandya 1 70 52* 70.00 0 6 5/28 8.33 1 0 0 61.66 investigate this query
JJ Bumrah 1 0 0 0.00 0 7 5/85 17.42 1 0 0 -17.42 investigate this query
I Sharma 1 1 1* - 0 4 2/32 25.50 0 0 0 - investigate this query
R Ashwin 1 15 14 15.00 0 1 1/44 47.00 0 0 0 -31.99 investigate this query
Mohammed Shami 1 6 3 3.00 0 2 1/56 67.00 0 0 0 -63.99 investigate this query
S Dhawan 1 79 44 39.50 0 - - - - 0 0 - investigate this query
V Kohli 1 200 103 100.00 1 - - - - 1 0 - investigate this query
RR Pant 1 25 24 12.50 0 - - - - 7 0 - investigate this query
CA Pujara 1 86 72 43.00 0 - - - - 0 0 - investigate this query
AM Rahane 1 110 81 55.00 0 - - - - 1 0 - investigate this query
KL Rahul 1 59 36 29.50 0 - - - - 7 0 -

 

:shock:

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8 minutes ago, zen said:

First we have to optimize the 5 specialist batting slots. If the reserve is that good, he can replace one of the struggling batsmen 

 

For e.g. If Pandya is avg 25 with the bat in this series, you want the specialist to avg around 35 or more each, which is not happening. Then you bring in someone who avg 35 or more, it could help if Pandya is not bowling well. Here he won us a test with his bowling performance though  

Its not that straight forward. Kohli Rahane Chepu are our backbone. If we get runs from 3, we wont loose. But one is expected to be off form.

Currently i feel, all space apart from them 3 and last few bolling postitions should be advertised by BCCI ti youngsters.

Pant has filled wk postion but on probation till next 6 month

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16 minutes ago, zen said:

He is a SENA specialists though so a lot more is expected from him. Has regressed this season

if we can find 5 batsmen who are better all round batsmen  to Rahane(Kohli spared ofcourse)  then I am in  for dropping him. But not as of now. To avg: 50+ in 3 of SENA  & almost 30 in ENG is a 'Dravid like' performance

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Just now, rtmohanlal said:

if we can find 5 batsmen who are better all round batsmen  to Rahane(Kohli spared ofcourse)  then I am in  for dropping him. But not as of now. To avg: 50+ in 3 of SENA  & almost 30 in ENG is a 'Dravid like' performance

Hope that he lives up to your confidence. This season, coming in at #5 in SENA and among specialist batsmen, Rahane is only better than the openers: 

 

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Primary team India remove India from query
Opposition team England remove England from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query
Home or away away (home of opposition) remove away (home of opposition) from query
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Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO RunsDescending HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 7 14 0 830 153 59.28 1429 58.08 3 4 0 96 1 investigate this query
CA Pujara 6 12 1 341 132* 31.00 964 35.37 1 2 1 43 0 investigate this query
HH Pandya 7 14 1 283 93 21.76 461 61.38 0 2 2 42 2 investigate this query
AM Rahane 5 10 0 277 81 27.70 620 44.67 0 2 0 29 0 investigate this query
R Ashwin 6 12 2 216 38 21.60 321 67.28 0 0 0 33 1 investigate this query
S Dhawan 4 8 0 190 44 23.75 313 60.70 0 0 0 28 0 investigate this query
KL Rahul 6 12 0 143 36 11.91 274 52.18 0 0 2 24 0 investigate this query
M Vijay 5 10 0 128 46 12.80 434 29.49 0 0 2 15 0 investigate this query

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3 minutes ago, zen said:

Hope that he lives up to your confidence. This season, coming in at #5 in SENA and among specialist batsmen, Rahane is only better than the openers: 

 

View overall figures [change view]
Primary team India remove India from query
Opposition team England remove England from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query
Home or away away (home of opposition) remove away (home of opposition) from query
Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017 remove greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017 from query
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Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO RunsDescending HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli 7 14 0 830 153 59.28 1429 58.08 3 4 0 96 1 investigate this query
CA Pujara 6 12 1 341 132* 31.00 964 35.37 1 2 1 43 0 investigate this query
HH Pandya 7 14 1 283 93 21.76 461 61.38 0 2 2 42 2 investigate this query
AM Rahane 5 10 0 277 81 27.70 620 44.67 0 2 0 29 0 investigate this query
R Ashwin 6 12 2 216 38 21.60 321 67.28 0 0 0 33 1 investigate this query
S Dhawan 4 8 0 190 44 23.75 313 60.70 0 0 0 28 0 investigate this query
KL Rahul 6 12 0 143 36 11.91 274 52.18 0 0 2 24 0 investigate this query
M Vijay 5 10 0 128 46 12.80 434 29.49 0 0 2 15 0 investigate this query

out of this, 8 inns are in ENG ,his nemesis country. Only 2 inns in SAF, where it was comparatively tougher & he was mismanaged   that he was a bit lower than his normal self. Hope he continues in his normal self  in the next matches

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9 minutes ago, Shunya said:

zen bhai...tame toh pandya na bhakt thayi gaya cho... so much of defending him in every thread...

haha, I try to support promising youngsters esp. if they are getting the hate .... if a better option turns up, I will try to support that option :p:

 

What is the fun in defending an established player? There are usually no grey areas there 

Edited by zen

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2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

India at The Oval: Hanuma Vihari for Hardik Pandya, Ravindra Jadeja for R Ashwin?

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/24585973/are-india-looking-play-debutant-oval

 

How is Dhawan saving his place  ?   Not a single 50+ knock in this series despite being a specialist batsman  !

 

Even Rahul should be dropped ... and the only thing that goes in his favour is his slip catching in the last 2 tests, which is of immense importance.

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15 hours ago, Nikola said:

Sometime stats don't tell what you see in match. Pandya has been useless and balance of side is not there because of him in both south africa and england tour.

I agree. With pandya down the order and the long tail that we have , could have been playing on the minds of our top order. Leave the openers aside, dhawan was not supposed to play, vijay lost his mojo and rahul lost his basics and will be out of team.

 

Pandya lacks consistency. He is playing in spot 6 where laxman used to play and would shepherd the lower order. That is the primary role . Bowling is a plus . We need him to bowl tight to give rest for our Pacers. 

 

As folks pointed out he gets twice the chances and so stats look better than what he is . He inspires zero confidence.

 

Rahane had two innings of substance . He was off form but he definitely is a great bat. With openers out of form, pandya being in the team upset the balance big time. 

 

We should have a good batsman who can bowl 10 overs and keep it tight. Any wickets from that part time bowler is bonus. Role definition for pandya is the problem here. With the current mix of players we have pandya unfortunately cannot be slotted in .

 

 

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17 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

How is Dhawan saving his place  ?   Not a single 50+ knock in this series despite being a specialist batsman  !

 

Even Rahul should be dropped ... and the only thing that goes in his favour is his slip catching in the last 2 tests, which is of immense importance.

2 50+ partnership in the one test we won. They have fared the same their Eng counterparts if not better. It is lower MO that is making the difference. 

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3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

kohli can roll his arm, nair can. they are better off option than pandys.

especially if the premise is to rest frontline bowlers. pandya has displayed lot of fight but he has no role.

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Ifs and buts of many fans:

  • If 6th batsman were playing, the 5th bowler or all-rounder would have been better
  • If 5th bowler were playing, the 6th batsman or all-rounder would have been better
  • If the all-rounder were playing, the 6th batsman or the 5th bowler would have been better 

 

Extending it to players

  • If Ashwin were playing, Jadeja would have been better
  • If Jadeja were playing, Ashwin would have been better
  • If Karthik were keeping, Pant would have been better
  • If Pant were keeping, Karthik would have been better
  • If Vijay were opening, Rahul would have been better
  • If Rahul were opening, Vijay would have been better
  • If Shami has an off-day, Yadav would have been better
  • If Yadav is struggling, Shami would have been better
  • and so on 

 

:facepalm:

 

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Pandya is not the finished product and it's unfair as the all-rounder tag holds a lot of responsibility.

 

Pandya should find more discipline with his bowling and perhaps be able to adapt when the team needs him to bide time with the bat. Because if this continues as it is, he might simply be dropped forever!

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Last game wasn’t a good one for Pandya so was due for a good one. Ind likely missed out on a good performance from him in this game :facepalm: .... Anyways not everyone can play every game 

 

Good to see Vihari though. But he could have easily played in place of one of the struggling batsmen - Dhawan, Rahul or Rahane 

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14 hours ago, zen said:

Last game wasn’t a good one for Pandya so was due for a good one. Ind likely missed out on a good performance from him in this game :facepalm: .... Anyways not everyone can play every game 

 

Good to see Vihari though. But he could have easily played in place of one of the struggling batsmen - Dhawan, Rahul or Rahane 

Which rule is that?

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Not sure whether he needed to be dropped for this match, but the fact is the captain has dropped him. It is evident that Virat Kohli has not built a core test playing 11. Probably he thinks none of these players are consistent enough to warrant a place in side. The batsmen have been a total flop, however he should atleast be looking to build up a core bowling unit. Perhaps atleast 3 pace bowlers as core part of bowling unit. Injuries will always be a challenge though to building this core bowling given Shami, Jasprit Bumrah and Ashwin have been injured recently. 

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Hardik was not playing in home conditions yet he performed exceptionally well with ball and put some useful runs with the bat.

In conditions when even home specialist  batsmen are not averaging largely and  the home team expects their lower order to do more with the bat when opposition bowlers get tired, to expect lower order batsmen from the visiting team is too much.Yet an inexperienced Pandya and Ashwin collectively avg:ed 41.5 with the bat.The main culprits were the openers with out a doubt.Shami too needed to  perform a lot better.

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2 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

Hardik was not playing in home conditions yet he performed exceptionally well with ball and put some useful runs with the bat.

In conditions when even home specialist  batsmen are not averaging largely and  the home team expects their lower order to do more with the bat when opposition bowlers get tired, to expect lower order batsmen from the visiting team is too much.Yet an inexperienced Pandya and Ashwin collectively avg:ed 41.5 with the bat.The main culprits were the openers with out a doubt.Shami too needed to  perform a lot better.

openers + rahane n pujara 

I understand inconistency with bat from pandya but not from rahane n pujara 

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17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

openers + rahane n pujara 

I understand inconistency with bat from pandya but not from rahane n pujara 

yes ...both of them needed to have done a bit  more, especially Pujara who do not even has one country in SENA where he avg:s over 35.

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