Dhoni's standing in the pantheon of ODI legends/greats?

[Khota]

27 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Dhoni has already earned his place by being the guy this year with 4th highest runs scored and best average for his nation. Meanwhile the sifarishi kids are failing in B-grade cricket. And you want them to replace this stalwart, because you are an ageist. 

Nobody has earned a slot two years down the road. No one. A good coach always divulges the squad few weeks in advance not years. Like I mentioned for the millionth time when Kartick was last given a chance he did better than Dhoni.

[Muloghonto]

35 minutes ago, Khota said:

Nobody has earned a slot two years down the road. No one. A good coach always divulges the squad few weeks in advance not years. Like I mentioned for the millionth time when Kartick was last given a chance he did better than Dhoni.

Sure. You will, however, find that in almost ALL professional team sports, contract permitting (not an issue with intl. cricket), players who have produced 'hall of fame numbers' or are on pace to do so and are veterans, their place in the squad is seen as 'here, until anything changes with this player, he is always pencilled in when fit'. Doesn't matter if its Dhoni, Henrik Sedin or Russel Wilson. Brazil isn't gonna lose sleep over saying 'next world cup, Neymar figures prominently in our plans' either. 

 

As long as Dhoni makes runs, is one of the fittest guys in the team and a keeper of current level, his place in the side is bulletproof. And we should feel so lucky to have a wicketkeeping batsman producing a mountain of runs while being supremely fit and keeping excellently. Not try to get rid of this chap. Simple. 

I don't give a damn if he is old, is balding, etc. or how many kids are waiting behind him for how long. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 hours ago, Khota said:

Under the current form his hitting was lot cleaner than Dhonis. He was ahead of dhoni except for the make beleve world of dhoni follower.Kartick was not given a chance and that is what I am trying to explain.

 

With two years to go you have annoited a king in Dhoni who does not have to earn his place. That is called recipe for disaster.

dhoni avg in 2017 is 89, on current form no one can touch him and s/r id 85 which is ok 

 

Karthik - avg 28 in his career and s/r of 73 , kya ukhada aaj taj

after scoring 2 100s in warm up in ct . He played 15 games means 15 chances and avg 31 and 70, kya ukhaad lia tab 

 

Kartik doesnt deserve even a chance more after screwing for 13 yrs. 

 

Dare drop dhoni after 89 avg 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

The present dhoni made runs today when 2 set batsman threw their wkts 

The present dhoni holded one end up and make sure we won the game in SRi lanka when akila dhananjaya wrecked havoc. 

He still did more then Rohit, rahane, pandey in Nz series and dhoni's batting was quite below avg 

 

Talk about him when all 5-6 others are soughted 

If those set batsmen had not played the way they did, Dhoni's innings would have looked very bad. 

[Rasgulla]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

If those set batsmen had not played the way they did, Dhoni's innings would have looked very bad. 

If there was no one along with so called set batsmen we would have lost all wicks for 200

[Rasgulla]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

dhoni avg in 2017 is 89, on current form no one can touch him and s/r id 85 which is ok 

 

Karthik - avg 28 in his career and s/r of 73 , kya ukhada aaj taj

after scoring 2 100s in warm up in ct . He played 15 games means 15 chances and avg 31 and 70, kya ukhaad lia tab 

 

Kartik doesnt deserve even a chance more after screwing for 13 yrs. 

 

Dare drop dhoni after 89 avg 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He got served yesterday by Dhoni and unicorn that doesn't exist(pandya)Why us he still talking? LoL

Edited September 18, 2017 by Rasgulla

[putrevus]

Anyone who thinks Karthik deserves more chances need their heads examined. This guy has been given so many chances just to falter when bright lights are turned on.

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

dhoni avg in 2017 is 89, on current form no one can touch him and s/r id 85 which is ok 

 

Karthik - avg 28 in his career and s/r of 73 , kya ukhada aaj taj

after scoring 2 100s in warm up in ct . He played 15 games means 15 chances and avg 31 and 70, kya ukhaad lia tab 

 

Kartik doesnt deserve even a chance more after screwing for 13 yrs. 

 

Dare drop dhoni after 89 avg 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this CT Karthick form was better. He was above dhoni. What happened years ago does not count as he improved significantly. He deserved a chance he did not get it.

[Ankit_sharma03]

28 minutes ago, Khota said:

In this CT Karthick form was better. He was above dhoni. What happened years ago does not count as he improved significantly. He deserved a chance he did not get it.

Thats the problem nothing has happened in dinesh kartik 13 yrs career, u knw his problem is he is mentally fragile and such cricketers fail everytime no matter what their form , technique are. 

 

He always makes runs in domestic n IPL , n fails in international cricket. U knw whats stupidity is keeping doing same mistake again n again. N giving him chances despite him being blowing those chances again n again is stupidity 

[Ankit_sharma03]

34 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Anyone who thinks Karthik deserves more chances need their heads examined. This guy has been given so many chances just to falter when bright lights are turned on.

That guy also says IPL stats are more important then international stats , i dnt think so he needs an head examination instead he needs a brain transplant 

He also think gambhir wud have outscored many of our batsman

[Yoda-esque]

The poll is completely wrong.Are we assessing MSD as a LOI player or as a LOI batsman ?

If we were to assess him purely as a batsman considering factors such as technique and the ability to "look" good  , then yes , he is nothing special.

 

But then, MSD has always been greater than the sum of parts.

 

His temperament is probably the best I have seen as a sportsman (not just cricket). He has that uncanny ability to stay in the moment and assess the situation.His feedback mechanism is so quick it boggles the mind.He plays percentage cricket and figures out the best way to win.And that is something that cannot be taught.In the end, winning is what matters.For that and that only, I would rate him as one of crickets best minds.Top 10 material most definitely.

 

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

That guy also says IPL stats are more important then international stats , i dnt think so he needs an head examination instead he needs a brain transplant 

He also think gambhir wud have outscored many of our batsman

Can you keep the personal stuff off. One inning and you have started talking shiet. 

 

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Yoda-esque said:

The poll is completely wrong.Are we assessing MSD as a LOI player or as a LOI batsman ?

If we were to assess him purely as a batsman considering factors such as technique and the ability to "look" good  , then yes , he is nothing special.

 

But then, MSD has always been greater than the sum of parts.

 

His temperament is probably the best I have seen as a sportsman (not just cricket). He has that uncanny ability to stay in the moment and assess the situation.His feedback mechanism is so quick it boggles the mind.He plays percentage cricket and figures out the best way to win.And that is something that cannot be taught.In the end, winning is what matters.For that and that only, I would rate him as one of crickets best minds.Top 10 material most definitely.

 

His thought process is messed up. When he started bowling in England that is when I thought he was done. Test cricket realized it I hope others do.

[Muloghonto]

19 hours ago, Khota said:

4 against pakistan in final where everything is on line iand you are quoting 60 against SL. Hypocrisy?

Once again how do you know the other 4 keepers would have not outperformed him. I say they would have scored twice the number of runs. You dont give chance to others and then you are left with nothing to compare. Nothing.

With Saha in the tests noone is missing Dhoni. Same could be true in other formats too.

You say wrong, because the 'other keepers' are performing worse than Dhoni in lower quality 50 over cricket. if you can't do well in grade 10, you are not going to do well in university. Same logic applies. 

And all of them are worse wicketkeepers than Dhoni except Saha.

 

For sifarishi kids like Pant, he has to score more runs in List-A or A-tour 50 over matches than Dhoni does in LoIs and be a better keeper to deserve a place. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Laaloo]

8 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You say wrong, because the 'other keepers' are performing worse than Dhoni in lower quality 50 over cricket. if you can't do well in grade 10, you are not going to do well in university. Same logic applies. 

And all of them are worse wicketkeepers than Dhoni except Saha.

 

For sifarishi kids like Pant, he has to score more runs in List-A or A-tour 50 over matches than Dhoni does in LoIs and be a better keeper to deserve a place. 

How is Pant a sifraishi kid?

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

How is Pant a sifraishi kid?

Because people want him in the LoI side despite him having done jack $hit to deserve it. Definition of sifarishi....

 

[Laaloo]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

Because people want him in the LoI side despite him having done jack $hit to deserve it. Definition of sifarishi....

 

 

 

People want him in the team because he has the ability to destroy attacks. People want him in the team is because he looks like a difference maker rather than just living in status quo now.

 

He didnt get this ahead is life because uske baap ne yaha waha phone kiya. That's not sifarish. Sifarish is Dhoni getting his chuski buddies in the national team. 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Laaloo said:

 

 

People want him in the team because he has the ability to destroy attacks. People want him in the team is because he looks like a difference maker rather than just living in status quo now.

 

He didnt get this ahead is life because uske baap ne yaha waha phone kiya. That's not sifarish. Sifarish is Dhoni getting his chuski buddies in the national team. 

He looks like he isn't ready. He is not good enough now and until he is good enough, if he is in the team, its not by merit. ergo, Sifarishi.

 

People are also idiots if they think a 19 year old's body is ready to score a mountain of runs quickly and crouch for 4 hrs a day lunging, gathering balls. Disney writes more believable fantasies than the ones people have about a 19 year old super-star keeper who is a gun batsman. there is a reason Gilly debuted at 27-28, not 19. Same reason why deKock debuted at 21-22.

 

 

[Laaloo]

3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

He looks like he isn't ready. He is not good enough now and until he is good enough, if he is in the team, its not by merit. ergo, Sifarishi.

 

People are also idiots if they think a 19 year old's body is ready to score a mountain of runs quickly and crouch for 4 hrs a day lunging, gathering balls. Disney writes more believable fantasies than the ones people have about a 19 year old super-star keeper who is a gun batsman. there is a reason Gilly debuted at 27-28, not 19. Same reason why deKock debuted at 21-22.

 

 

He doesnt need to score a mountain of runs. Give me a quickfire 50 rather than coming in and sucking the momentum out of the whole innings. Pant will learn. You're playing against the likes of windies and sri lanka in a useless series. Bring him now so he can work out his issues in a low pressure environment. 

 

Dhoni has done nothing in T20s apart from a few innings here and there. The fact that he keeps getting selected despite being one of the worst players in T20 history for his position is mind boggling. That's sifarishi. 

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

He doesnt need to score a mountain of runs. Give me a quickfire 50 rather than coming in and sucking the momentum out of the whole innings. Pant will learn. You're playing against the likes of windies and sri lanka in a useless series. Bring him now so he can work out his issues in a low pressure environment. 

 

Dhoni has done nothing in T20s apart from a few innings here and there. The fact that he keeps getting selected despite being one of the worst players in T20 history for his position is mind boggling. That's sifarishi. 

a specialist bastman, in ODIs,score 50 every 4 innings. All-time great specialist batsmen score a 50 every 3 innings. to ask for a quickfire 50 from a wicketkeeper or a bowler, is a mountain of runs.

 

He can work on his issues in domestic cricket. international cricket isn't a nursery. And the biggest issue a 19 year old keeper has to work on, is strengthening his back. Which doesn't require international cricket. For a newcomer, there is no 'low pressure environment' in international cricket. Even practice LoIs like world-cup warm-ups are make-or-break for noobs .

IIRC, the last teenager to debut as a keeper in international cricket that worked out, was Ian Healy, over 30 years ago. 

thats your success rate throwing kids off the deep end.

 

this thread is about LoIs. Not t20s. In LoIs, so far, Dhoni is a hall of famer and Pant is Sifarishi.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Muloghonto