Waqar bowling pies

[Rightarmfast]

12 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

This was before his 1992 injury. Seems like the OP forgot the waqar they used to speak about was this version. Lol Couldn’t be bothered to explain that to him.

That's another thing that I wonder... Why is it that Pakistani military medium pacers lose whatever speed they have, so fast? Is it genetic, or technical or are they simply not good enough? Waqar was about fast medium for the first 3 years of his career and then he lost it! Thats pathetic!

 

About his speed, well about 4 months ago I had posted Waqar's video from 93-94 where he and Wasim were consistently bowling around 81-83mph. Their speed is all hype. There was only one Pakistani bowler who was quick, thats Shoaib. Then again, his action wasnt the cleanest.

[Rightarmfast]

1 minute ago, Shaz1 said:

Before you wonder that you should wonder where do your bowlers end up when they come bowling so special? Waqar atleast lasted 11 years after that, where as your bowlers end up in the bin after use. 

 

Yes our players are all hype when experts themselves compliment your batsmen and its not all hype. You are missing one bowler there, Muhammad Sami 

 

 

Yes, I agree there with you. Your players are all hype, nothing more. Ofcourse corruption runs from top to bottom in Pakistan cricket, but we arent talking of it right now. 

[Rightarmfast]

Thanks beta! I tell even better truths. Like I just did in the post above!

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, the don said:

Trundler waqar bowling express .

Look at the bowl at 10.33 .

Also the ones against southafrica where he was clocked bowling 154 kph , military medium by Indian standards of course .

While srinath was fighting and losing a pace battle to Razzaq .

Think i should post videos of India , Pak duels . People seem to be forgetting their legacy.

Lol where is thw measure. I am waiting for video or documentary evidence og 150 + from waqar. 

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, the don said:

Pre 92 waqar was quicker than the pace of the two Indian opening bowlers added up but even after the back injury waqar was much quicker than the bowles Op champions .

He needs to rewatch India pak games that had speed guns and he will realise that Srinath was slower than Razzaq let alone Waqar .

India pak matches are there to see for all on youtube.

Sorry no matches with bottle caps and 13 players for pak...;) 

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

@Mosher  @Rightarmfast  @rkt.india  @Vilander  @MultiB48

 

 

Waqar bowling 77 mph to 82 mph in the OP.

 

He is 29 years at this time and not old at all

 

Just 3 years back, in the video we saw in the  " Thommo thread "  ..... without speed-guns in use , the commentators were saying that he was bowling 100 mph.  

 

It must be genetic. I made a few posts on how pakistanis are being decimated as if they were juvi by bigger and faster Indian atheletes in south asian games...if its full contact sport usually smaller pakistanis are decimated by Indians this is understandable but what is more revealing is that they are dominated in atheletics as well this means bone structure as well...pakistanis are puny flimsy people...;)..

 

Don why is this so man ?

[MCcricket]

We r talking about few things, first things first in the age where speed guns were not there or present all the time ,pace was percieved , withing each bracket, Medium, M/F, F/M, Fast, Express, one can decipher n judge, n batters can based on response time n how hard the ball hits the bat.

 

Problem with India was we never had a fast bowling culture n this was not because of physique or diet but BCCI , Coach, selectors in aptitude, apathy. The world did not rate India as a country capable of providing a fast, let alone express bowler, n we never really had any one before Kapil who was fast medium.

Pakistan had a history or fast bowlers ,n bowlers with skill, swing, n reverse swing added their perception of pace, so Waseem, Waqar, fast bowlers at best but F/M most of their careers were received as fast even express, I don't think they were quicker then Umesh for most part.

Now with India with the Advent of Srinath n speed guns becoming a bit more common things n perceptions changed, in the present scenario, with Umesh, Shami, Ishant all capable of bowling above 140k, our attack is as fast as any out there, n numbers don't lie, also costing teams have begrudgingly accepted this n started rating our pacers.

By no way we're Waqar, Waseem, slow, they were Fast at their best n their potency made them appear more quick, like Mgrath for most of his career he bowled around 135 k average , but is perceived quick .

Tables have turned now as Pakistan which seemed to have endless supply of fast bowlers have dried down n India is getting to be a force n today have fastest attack in Asia n as fast as any other team, we don't have an express bowler yet, but Aaron could be one n few youngsters who could be .

Present Pakistan attack is poor n have no quality, Amir is above average, n rest mediocre n no quick bowlers.

Surprisingly Akram, Waqar, Shoaib haven't left a lasting fast bowling legacy in Pakistan

[Mosher]

7 hours ago, the don said:

Trundler waqar bowling express .

Look at the bowl at 10.33 .

Also the ones against southafrica where he was clocked bowling 154 kph , military medium by Indian standards of course .

While srinath was fighting and losing a pace battle to Razzaq .

Think i should post videos of India , Pak duels . People seem to be forgetting their legacy.

The one at 10.33 and some old videos he looks quick but there are no speed guns there. The ones where he does bowl under speed guns he is bowling really phaassst 131 - 138k deliveries. 

[rkt.india]

Waqar was certainly quick in his early years. He was fast on his debut. So was Zahid.

[rkt.india]

 

[Vilander]

37 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Waqar was certainly quick in his early years. He was fast on his debut. So was Zahid.

Based on evidence on offer if you call 138 quick then yeah.

[bhakum20]

Who is denying he was quick? But was he 145k quick or 155k quick...

 

The difference between 140k and 155k in time is 0.05 seconds. Are you seriously telling me any human using his eye watching crap quality videos from the late 80s/early 90s can detect the difference?

 

Even our bowlers are bowling 140k quite easily these days. So if waqar bowled 140k that is FAST, but if our bowlers bowl that then its medium or medium fast lol

[Nikhil_cric]

15 hours ago, express bowling said:

@Mosher  @Rightarmfast  @rkt.india  @Vilander  @MultiB48

 

 

Waqar bowling 77 mph to 82 mph in the OP.

 

He is 29 years at this time and not old at all

 

Just 3 years back, in the video we saw in the  " Thommo thread "  ..... without speed-guns in use , the commentators were saying that he was bowling 100 mph.  

 

His real age at the time was around 35

[Nikhil_cric]

Regarding Waqar, he was certainly the fastest bowler in the world at his peak along with Donald and Bishop. Waqar is around 5 years older than his official age so he was actually 23 when he made his debut. His peak lasted from around 1990-1995 . But he was never the same bowler again after two stress fractures to his back . He was a bowler who relied on sheer airspeed and late swing so he was pretty decent until early 98 or so when he was still fairly quick. After that however, he turned into a medium pacer who would bowl 132-136 in his first spell and then drop his pace even lower in his second and third spells. 

 

Now he had a few advantages in that nobody knew how to play reverse swing at such high pace back in the early 90's. There were not as many cameras to provide evidence for ball tampering . But most importantly , especially in ODIs, wickets are truer, bats are improved and outfields are faster. This has become much more visible since 2002 or so. Do the vast majority of Waqars career was actually played on slow wickets with abrasive outfields like Pakistan,SL,India,Sharjah etc. or wickets which were traditionally helpful for seamers like SA/ENG/NZ . Before 2002, only Australia used to produce modern type ODI wickets and Waqar was never really successful there since he never got the bounce/zip off the wicket that Wasim/Akhtar got. For those who used to watch ODI cricket before 2002 would know what I'm talking about. Before that 300+ scores were not common in SAF and ENG but that year OZ chased down 330 odd against SAF in SAF and India chased 326 or so in NatWest final. Also the India West Indies bilateral in India produced some very high scores and the wickets were damn good batting wickets. 

[speedheat]

10 hours ago, the don said:

Here is trundler Zahid getting through the defenses of dravid with 60 mph yorker .

 

There are enough videos of Razzaq bowling quicker than trundler srinath and enough videos of Waqar bowling express fast .

Yes razaq was quick no doubt, I have seen him bowling quick with speed Gun reading,  I have  also seen  Lee, akhtar, bond,Lawson, harmison,malinga,Tait and all those zahid  videos  bowling quick, but 1000% sure  he is nowhere near 150 or 160 mark which was massively hyped by you people, at the most he could be 138k+  also waquar n wasim were never timed by proper speed guns so can't conclude them to be fast they can  be fast -medium / medium fast, a late inswing and seam movement which both WS were famous for could easily fool us to be a genuine pace, you can also look at some of  asifs deliverys  a massive in dipp he used to get can  give a  falls impression of genuine pace  without a speed  gun.

Edited November 12, 2017 by speedheat

[the don]

2 hours ago, speedheat said:

Yes razaq was quick no doubt, I have seen him bowling quick with speed Gun reading,  I have  also seen  Lee, akhtar, bond,Lawson, harmison,malinga,Tait and all those zahid  videos  bowling quick, but 1000% sure  he is nowhere near 150 or 160 mark which was massively hyped by you people, at the most he could be 138k+  also waquar n wasim were never timed by proper speed guns so can't conclude them to be fast they can  be fast -medium / medium fast, a late inswing and seam movement which both WS were famous for could easily fool us to be a genuine pace, you can also look at some of  asifs deliverys  a massive in dipp he used to get can  give a  falls impression of genuine pace  without a speed  gun.

What do you mean when you say waqar wasnt timed by a proper speed gun .

Waqar clocked 153 kph in a televised game in southafrica in 1993 .

The commentators were consistently talking about his express pace in that series .

He also clocked 90mph in the test series in england im 96 when he wasnt even that quick .

There is a video of that test series on youtube but i cant seem to find it right now.

 

Witj regards to Zahid well its ok if you think he was 138 before he got injured . 

But according to the domestic batsmen , Akhtar , lara , newzealand media and Mark taylor specifically who faced both him and akhtar in a test match and while calling it the fastest ever pairing he reckoned zahid was quicker at the time.

 

Regarding Pakistan overhyping the bowlers . Well Pakistan have always had quick bowlers. With at least three clocking 155 kph plus in the last 15 years and multiple 150 kph bowlers.

You can watch every single India pak encounter of the last 60 years on Youtube and Pakistan always had the quicker bowling . Every damn time . Even when Rana used to play for pak he clocked a lot more pace than the Indian seamers. Its a fact .

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by the don

[speedheat]

32 minutes ago, the don said:

What do you mean when you say waqar wasnt timed by a proper speed gun .

Waqar clocked 153 kph in a televised game in southafrica in 1993 .

The commentators were consistently talking about his express pace in that series .

He also clocked 90mph in the test series in england im 96 when he wasnt even that quick .

There is a video of that test series on youtube but i cant seem to find it right now.

 

Witj regards to Zahid well its ok if you think he was 138 before he got injured . 

But according to the domestic batsmen , Akhtar , lara , newzealand media and Mark taylor specifically who faced both him and akhtar in a test match and while calling it the fastest ever pairing he reckoned zahid was quicker at the time.

 

Regarding Pakistan overhyping the bowlers . Well Pakistan have always had quick bowlers. With at least three clocking 155 kph plus in the last 15 years and multiple 150 kph bowlers.

You can watch every single India pak encounter of the last 60 years on Youtube and Pakistan always had the quicker bowling . Every damn time . Even when Rana used to play for pak he clocked a lot more pace than the Indian seamers. Its a fact .

 

By proper speed guns I mean 3 speed-guns or high-speed cameras used in current international games, I have  massive doubt about speed guns used in 90s, both Waz and waquar  were quick may be around 90mph  with their fastest but  so what?? We have nehra, Rp, and ishant who all bowled at 145+ at their prime and we call them as trundlers, i would have agreed on you with full stop if wasim and waquar had crossed at least one ball at 140kph in 2003wc since than I have massive doubts about their ability to bow l quick, as I said in my earlier post that you can easily get fooled by seam movement and late inswing as  genuine pace same can be the case with commentators, I can trust Mr. Been then shoaib lol, I have seen that video of zahid bowling  to Lara lol just look at where  moon khan was collecting them  at the toes and not even at knees and that too on  gabba the  fastest pitch in the  world even sir. Aggy looked like akhtar in gabba, their is no chace he. had  crossed that 150k  and who else have crossed 155 k apart  From akhtar and  Wahab?? Don't say sami now lol  based on that  faulty 2004 samsun. Series  speed guns  in which even balaji and pathan bowled at 160k.

[the don]

14 minutes ago, speedheat said:

By proper speed guns I mean 3 speed-guns or high-speed cameras used in current international games, I have  massive doubt about speed guns used in 90s, both Waz and waquar  were quick may be around 90mph  with their fastest but  so what?? We have nehra, Rp, and ishant who all bowled at 145+ at their prime and we call them as trundlers, i would have agreed on you with full stop if wasim and waquar had crossed at least one ball at 140kph in 2003wc since than I have massive doubts about their ability to bow l quick, as I said in my earlier post that you can easily get fooled by seam movement and late inswing as  genuine pace same can be the case with commentators, I can trust Mr. Been then shoaib lol, I have seen that video of zahid bowling  to Lara lol just look at where  moon khan was collecting them  at the toes and not even at knees and that too on  gabba the  fastest pitch in the  world even sir. Aggy looked like akhtar in gabba, their is no chace he. had  crossed that 150k  and who else have crossed 155 k apart  From akhtar and  Wahab?? Don't say sami now lol  based on that  faulty 2004 samsun. Series  speed guns  in which even balaji and pathan bowled at 160k.

Ok seriously .

I need to start a new thread . You are so misinformed .

Every point is incorrect .

First of all both wasim and waqar indeed did clock 140 kph plus in the 2003 world cup which was their  last assignement .

In the case of waqar quite a few times .

 

This was his last international game i think .Look at the pace . Lol its against India . Are you telling me you didnt know he clocked 140 plus in that game ?? 

 

 

Sami did not just cross 155kph once . He has done it in the UAE and newzealand amongst other places . 

 

This isnt a pakistani speed gun .

So he has done it multiple times along with Akhtar .Infact he alone has bowled over 150 kph more times than all Indian bowlers combined let alone 155kph and i am not even trolling.

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by the don

[speedheat]

16 minutes ago, the don said:

Ok seriously .

I need to start a new thread . You are so misinformed .

Every point is incorrect .

First of all both wasim and waqar indeed did clock 140 kph plus in the 2003 world cup which was their  last assignement .

In the case of waqar quite a few times .

 

This was his last international game i think .Look at the pace . Lol its against India . Are you telling me you didnt know he clocked 140 plus in that game ?? 

 

 

Sami did not just cross 155kph once . He has done it in the UAE and newzealand amongst other places . 

 

This isnt a pakistani speed gun .

So he has done it multiple times along with Akhtar .Infact he alone has bowled over 150 kph more times than all Indian bowlers combined let alone 155kph and i am not even trolling.

 

 

 

Ok, but most of the time waquar was trundling around 134kph in that WC, also just look at the op he is trundling and that's not what you called express that's Fast medium, I have seen sami in 2005 when you toured us and kept a close eye on his pace the fastest he bowled was 148kph after that I didn't follow him much,  if only its a pace competition I bet you umesh and  and Aron will easily outshine sami yes he may give a tough fight  to ishant sharma though, only shoib akhtar is the one we have no competition. 

[the don]

11 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Ok, but most of the time waquar was trundling around 134kph in that WC, also just look at the op he is trundling and that's not what you called express that's Fast medium, I have seen sami in 2005 when you toured us and kept a close eye on his pace the fastest he bowled was 148kph after that I didn't follow him much,  if only its a pace competition I bet you umesh and  and Aron will easily outshine sami yes he may give a tough fight  to ishant sharma though, only shoib akhtar is the one we have no competition. 

How ?? 

That is not true . He was much quicker than the guys you mentioned . If they could outshine him they would have bowled higher speeds but as it is even wahab riaz has a higher top speeds . I am talking facts here not hypothetical scenarios please.

 

Also as i said waqar clocked 140 plus multiple times in that worldcup . You can rewatch the games if you want . Dont know where you get your information from.