IPL now has window in ICC Future Tours Programme

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, Khota said:

For IPL to be truly global product Pakistan players cannot be avoided. Amir, Hasan can easily walk into any side.

 

Having said that BCCI should still not play PCB as pakistan just released the terrorist mind Hafiz. No action on terrorism front then no playtime.

Once Pakistan joins the rest of the civilized world, gets out from under the military mafia boots that its currently under - and stops supporting murderers and terrorists - then Pakistanis will be welcomed back to the IPL without any fuss.   And even the PCB babus can mooch off millions as they usually do, with the resumption of 'bilateral' cricket.  

[LordPrabhzy]

8 minutes ago, Khota said:

For IPL to be truly global product Pakistan players cannot be avoided. Amir, Hasan can easily walk into any side.

 

Having said that BCCI should still not play PCB as pakistan just released the terrorist mind Hafiz. No action on terrorism front then no playtime.

you just contradicted yourself? They can be avoided, they are excess baggage in the global cricket terms.

 

IPL should not allow any pakistani players at all. Why should they benefit from Indian money and then think of our kaum as sub human. They can play in their PSL carnival which no one watches.

[Khota]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Once Pakistan joins the rest of the civilized world, gets out from under the military mafia boots that its currently under - and stops supporting murderers and terrorists - then Pakistanis will be welcomed back to the IPL without any fuss.   And even the PCB babus can mooch off millions as they usually do, with the resumption of 'bilateral' cricket.  

 

4 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

you just contradicted yourself? They can be avoided, they are excess baggage in the global cricket terms.

 

IPL should not allow any pakistani players at all. Why should they benefit from Indian money and then think of our kaum as sub human. They can play in their PSL carnival which no one watches.

I will not disagree with anything both of you said as it is mostly correct.

 

My thought process goes like this:

 

IPL needs to be global/UAE/England/Dubai etc.

Increase the season to five months.

this will eclipse all other leagues.

With Pakistan players in the league you will get 200 million more headcount watching TV.

It will grow.

It truly needs to have everyone with games being played in Middle East regularly.

 

 

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, Khota said:

 

I will not disagree with anything both of you said as it is mostly correct.

 

My thought process goes like this:

 

IPL needs to be global/UAE/England/Dubai etc.

Increase the season to five months.

this will eclipse all other leagues.

With Pakistan players in the league you will get 200 million more headcount watching TV.

It will grow.

It truly needs to have everyone with games being played in Middle East regularly.

 

 

I wrote an article here a couple of months back that the IPL should ideally add a Colombo and a Dubai Franchise along with 2 additional India-based franchises in its next expansion.   10 years later, they could potentially add one in Kuala Lumpur/Singapore as well.   All great sports leagues across the world are recognizing the importance of expansion beyond national borders, even the US-based ones that don't really need to for financial reasons.   

[LordPrabhzy]

16 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I wrote an article here a couple of months back that the IPL should ideally add a Colombo and a Dubai Franchise along with 2 additional India-based franchises in its next expansion.   10 years later, they could potentially add one in Kuala Lumpur/Singapore as well.   All great sports leagues across the world are recognizing the importance of expansion beyond national borders, even the US-based ones that don't really need to for financial reasons.   

I swear the now defunt ICL did that, that is had a pakistan and SL based franchise. I think instead of creating franchises they should do what the NFL does, have a London match annually which is sold out. They can rotate the matches by having the top two teams from the previous season play a one off exhibition match. So one year in South Africa and then in England then in Dubai and maybe the US.

 

The problem is T20 leagues are creating the merceneries culture where the top players just play for every league possible. Not because of club loyalty just for money. Even after 10 years of IPL there isnt that die hard club fan culture among indian fans so its hard to expect viewers in other countries to appreciate the IPL. We see cricket as entertainment and not life and death which English club football fans do.

[Vilander]

55 minutes ago, Khota said:

For IPL to be truly global product Pakistan players cannot be avoided.

nope sorry, no fraternizing with terrorists. stop begging.

[Vilander]

34 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I wrote an article here a couple of months back that the IPL should ideally add a Colombo and a Dubai Franchise along with 2 additional India-based franchises in its next expansion.   10 years later, they could potentially add one in Kuala Lumpur/Singapore as well.   All great sports leagues across the world are recognizing the importance of expansion beyond national borders, even the US-based ones that don't really need to for financial reasons.   

the problem with Colombo Dubai is pak players can play in it, and this creates scheduling nightmare, how will they travel to Indian for games. 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Stumped said:

Out of interest what would be the reasoning behind your deliberately antagonistic proposal?

When the ECB can merrily lead a vote gerry-mandering effort to cut down BCCI's revenue-stream & influence at the ICC level, using India-generated ICC revenues to bribe the likes of WI, Zim, NZ, Bang etc - surely you don't think such actions won't have a reaction from the BCCI?    I expect the ICC "dispute resolution" committee to kick back a serious amount of funds to Pakistan, with the on-going issue with India-Pakistan bilateral cricket.  Its plain as day, that Giles Clarke made a deal with Sethi and the PCB to push through the recent round of ICC structural changes - at a time while the BCCI is going through court-mandated structural changes and is rudderless and incapable of really responding in the ICC corporate boardroom.   Do you think Giles Clarke flew to terrorism infested Pakistan - twice - before the ICC voting, because he loves cricket and wants to see it being played in Pakistan?  The "World XI" visit to Lahore was part of the same deal - facilitated by slimey Giles Clarke, and backed by Haroon Lorgat's CSA - that's why that team was composed of primarily South African current players, and "stars" like Paul Collingwood.  

 

Sooner or later, the BCCI will get past its internal issues, find its footing, and then turn its attention to delivering payback to its "frenemies" in the ICC.  BCCI babus may be inept, bumbling fools, but they do have elephantine memories.  And like the South African Cricket board is finding out now, payback is a bitch.   Haroon Lorgat has been fired, and his fantasy of starting a South African T20 league is in the trashcan, and CSA had to pay out a healthy amount of $$$ to players and other stakeholders.   You poke a stick at the bee-hive, you should expect to get stung.   

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by sandeep

[YCCC]

6 hours ago, sandeep said:

Whether they provide an official "window" or not - reality is that the best cricketers on the planet are going to be lining up to play in the IPL in that time-frame.  And why shouldn't they?   Even their boards make money when they play in the IPL.   It was only the stupidity of the ECB that this happened 10 years late.  Doesn't matter anyway.   

 

Just like BCCI took care of business by denying SA their home boxing day test against India, I want the BCCI to make sure that they schedule a "IPL carnival" in the same time-frame when ECB finally gets their **** together and starts a T20 tournament.  

ECB already has a perfectly good tournament that it wants to destroy to set up this city franchise shite. No need for it to follow other countries as the county tournament already gets good crowds. Not sell outs apart from Yorkshire v Lancashire and most matches for Middlesex and Surrey, but good crowds nevertheless. Honestly can't see the city tournament taking off. Most fans who already go to watch the county competition will not go anywhere near it, leaving hardly anyone as cricket doesn't have a big following here outside the people who currently watch it. Would love it if the BCCI set up a rival tournament during the ECB City Franchise **** League or whatever they're going to call it. Would kill the thing stone dead.

[YCCC]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the full schedule?

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, YCCC said:

ECB already has a perfectly good tournament that it wants to destroy to set up this city franchise shite. No need for it to follow other countries as the county tournament already gets good crowds. Not sell outs apart from Yorkshire v Lancashire and most matches for Middlesex and Surrey, but good crowds nevertheless. Honestly can't see the city tournament taking off. Most fans who already go to watch the county competition will not go anywhere near it, leaving hardly anyone as cricket doesn't have a big following here outside the people who currently watch it. Would love it if the BCCI set up a rival tournament during the ECB City Franchise **** League or whatever they're going to call it. Would kill the thing stone dead.

I don't understand how the ECB keep scoring own goals instead of taking advantage of the opportunities they have to strengthen cricket in England, and make some meaningful increase in mass popularity.  I know you are an old-school guy who's super loyal to the county structure, and the existing setup - but England should have had a T20 league in place 5 years ago already.   One that is linked to the existing county structure so that it it doesn't bite the hand that created it.   

[YCCC]

14 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I don't understand how the ECB keep scoring own goals instead of taking advantage of the opportunities they have to strengthen cricket in England, and make some meaningful increase in mass popularity.  I know you are an old-school guy who's super loyal to the county structure, and the existing setup - but England should have had a T20 league in place 5 years ago already.   One that is linked to the existing county structure so that it it doesn't bite the hand that created it.   

 

I would go the other way by keeping the same structure that has served English cricket well for 150 years. The ECB doesn't need to try and copy other countries, it already has a format that works. The T20 Blast is growing in popularity every year, crowds are increasing year on year, all the counties take it seriously and want to win it, unlike the 50 over competition which a lot of clubs sack off to pursue other targets. It attracts enough big names  to gather interest too: Chris Gayle, Aaron Finch, David Miller, Hashim Amla, Kane Williamson have all played here in the last two years. They need to embrace the tradition and the passionate, deep rooted following that the counties have and let the Blast thrive and grow in it's current format, not destroy it. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by YCCC

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I dnt think so apart from hassan ali nyone wud be even picked in auction. Auction men ho na ho kya farq padta hai 

I think Shadab and Amir would get picked as well.  But this is all Khayali Pulao.  In order for Pakistani cricketers and Pakistani board to benefit from Indian cricket, their government needs to clean up its act with the likes of Masood Azhar and Hafiz Saeed.  Cricket is just a sport.   It can wait.  

[sandeep]

Just now, YCCC said:

 

I would go the other way by keeping the same structure that has served English cricket well for 150 years. The ECB doesn't need to try and copy other countries, it already has a format that works. The T20 Blast is growing in popularity every year, crowds are increasing year on year, all the counties take it seriously and want to win it, unlike the 50 over competition which a lot of clubs sack off to pursue other targets. They need to embrace the tradition and the passionate, deep rooted following that the counties have and let the Blast thrive and grow in it's current format, not destroy it. 

But the current T20 'tournament' with 18+ teams isn't really generating the big bucks that the IPL or Big Bash are generating right?  To be blunt, its an underperforming asset and a few tweaks are overdue.   I totally agree with you that its important to keep the tradition and ties to the passionate fan base - maybe reward the top 8 county teams that do well in the previous year with the right to participate in the T20 league?  This way, Counties are incentivized to prioritize their FC performances, and get rewarded by participating in a more financially rewarding T20 tournament.  

 

As good as the IPL is at scouting and polishing Indian talent for its purposes, in hindsight, I wish that each of the franchises had been linked to existing domestic teams as well - that would have strengthened the existing FC structure.   I think ECB would do well to do something along those lines.  

[YCCC]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

But the current T20 'tournament' with 18+ teams isn't really generating the big bucks that the IPL or Big Bash are generating right?  To be blunt, its an underperforming asset and a few tweaks are overdue.   I totally agree with you that its important to keep the tradition and ties to the passionate fan base - maybe reward the top 8 county teams that do well in the previous year with the right to participate in the T20 league?  This way, Counties are incentivized to prioritize their FC performances, and get rewarded by participating in a more financially rewarding T20 tournament.  

 

As good as the IPL is at scouting and polishing Indian talent for its purposes, in hindsight, I wish that each of the franchises had been linked to existing domestic teams as well - that would have strengthened the existing FC structure.   I think ECB would do well to do something along those lines.  

 

A similar suggestion was having two leagues, like the first class structure. I wouldn't have been against that. It would have been much prefarable to the city franchise route and would keep all counties involved with an elite league of possibly 8 and a lower league of 10, with promotion and relegation every year.

[Turning_track]

There is a murmuring among the cricketing pundits & especially in Pakistan from quite some years to bring China into cricket & make this an Olympic sport. This way it will be a counter against India & try to lessen the clout which India has over the cricketing world.

 

Though every test playing nation want to replicate the success like IPL in their own domestic t20s tournaments, they have not been successful. India has been extremely lucky to start IPL so early & it took off. It's the no.1 sport, the crazy population, billions of dollars, world class players at our disposal, win win situation for broadcasters, advertisers too. Pakistan, SL & Bangladesh have all been struggling with poor management, terrorism, financial instability. Less said about WICB the better & CSA keep finding a way to shoot themselves on their own foot.

BBL still doesn't generate the astronomical figures to fill up CA's coffers but it is sufficient enough to keep them running, even with a messed up schedule when their national team is also playing in Australia at the same time.

The ECB has got quite a job in their hand & the big county clubs like Yorkshire, Middldsex have got a complete different viewpoint of running things than the smaller clubs.

It really is a messed up situation out there. 

[maniac]

24 minutes ago, Turning_track said:

There is a murmuring among the cricketing pundits & especially in Pakistan from quite some years to bring China into cricket & make this an Olympic sport. This way it will be a counter against India & try to lessen the clout which India has over the cricketing world.

 

Though every test playing nation want to replicate the success like IPL in their own domestic t20s tournaments, they have not been successful. India has been extremely lucky to start IPL so early & it took off. It's the no.1 sport, the crazy population, billions of dollars, world class players at our disposal, win win situation for broadcasters, advertisers too. Pakistan, SL & Bangladesh have all been struggling with poor management, terrorism, financial instability. Less said about WICB the better & CSA keep finding a way to shoot themselves on their own foot.

BBL still doesn't generate the astronomical figures to fill up CA's coffers but it is sufficient enough to keep them running, even with a messed up schedule when their national team is also playing in Australia at the same time.

The ECB has got quite a job in their hand & the big county clubs like Yorkshire, Middldsex have got a complete different viewpoint of running things than the smaller clubs.

It really is a messed up situation out there. 

It is not that easy...I mean look at USA,FIFA who are probably the richest sporting body in the world have tried for years to make Soccer popular in USA but it hasn’t worked...I have seen recently though more interest grow in the English premier league and UEFA than it was say 10 years back but still nothing compared to Europe.

 

Similarly US has tried to capture the European Market with NFL and NBA but hasn’t worked either.

 

China is now really into the NBA and obviously they love soccer....uphill infact an impossible task to make it popular there.

[Turning_track]

20 minutes ago, maniac said:

It is not that easy...I mean look at USA,FIFA who are probably the richest sporting body in the world have tried for years to make Soccer popular in USA but it hasn’t worked...I have seen recently though more interest grow in the English premier league and UEFA than it was say 10 years back but still nothing compared to Europe.

 

Similarly US has tried to capture the European Market with NFL and NBA but hasn’t worked either.

 

China is now really into the NBA and obviously they love soccer....uphill infact an impossible task to make it popular there.

Indeed it's not easy and there are hell lot of factors involved too.

Pakistan has allowed 2 Chinese players to play in PSL to develop which is a good sign. They also helped Afghanistan cricket team in their development. 

The point which I was trying to make was that the pundits blame BCCI for not pushing the game forward in various other countries using all its money. According to them as India has got more say due to its financial power, then India should wield it to help others. But these experts cleverly overlook the fact that how cricket has been only a commonwealth game. All the major cricketing nations or the genuinely interested ones have been former British colonies. The GORAS at the MCC or in SCG, MCG have done zilch for cricket's development for more than 110 years. 

Once Afghanistan plays its test against India next year, this game might partially shed its tag for being Commonwealth game.

I feel there was a chance in the 90s for the aspiring cricket teams to embrace tests along with ODIs. But now I don't think with this t20 juggernaut anyone cares about tests. It's a long walk from here.

[sandeep]

36 minutes ago, Stumped said:

Out of interest @sandeep how would you go about structuring a t20 league in England? With the more spread population densities than Australia and the lack of as big a cricketing fanbase as India it's not exactly that easy to make sensible changes from the current T20 blast.

Why do I feel that I've answered this exact question from you before? 

 

I think ECB should schedule a short rapid-fire league - no more than 4 weeks in duration, and no more than 8 teams.  Let the top 6 teams from the previous year get qualified automatically, with 2 'wild card' entries available for teams that are doing really well in the on-going season - Let them draft in 3 or 4 foreign players from a common pool to fill out their rosters, but ensure that there is enough of a link to the FC team so that the players and teams are rewarded for prioritizing FC cricket.   This way, you can break the chicken-and-egg logjam that the ECB is stuck with, because there are enough stake-holders whose personal motives create an obstruction against any change from the status quo.  

 

Ensure that the broadcast is free on at least 2 nights a week - at least one of those nights should be a double-header, the rest of the games can be on pay-per-view if the ECB really want to be greedy and squeeze out TV revenue from it - but ideally the goal should be to maximize stadium as well as TV audience for the 1st 5 years or so.   I'm not a football fan, and don't know much about the schedules of the EPL etc, but if they can schedule this at a time when there's a bit of a lull with the football, or at least, less meaningful fixtures, even better.  

 

Key is to create a stable, consistent structure - so that over time, the audiences buy into the routine of watching the games on a regular basis for that duration.  Whether that's on TV, streaming on a device, at a pub, or at the stadium.  Look at the one of the most successful leagues in the world - the NFL.   They have worked for decades and ended up with a situation where - from Sept to January - All of America has been trained to a Pavlovian level to just watch NFL games every Sunday - from 1 pm to 4 pm, 4 to 7, and then a marquee game for "Sunday Night Football".   They also have "Monday Night Football" which is another free to air game, broadcast nationally.   That's what the ECB should aim for - for the 4 weeks of the ECB Cricket Carnival - aim to create a banner event for at least one night every week, if not 2.   Broadcast the final game free as well.  

 

BCCI had it easy with India, because cricket is so popular there, and the captive audience don't really have that much of a choice in terms of 'prime-time' alternatives to watch - sports or otherwise.  The hard part is to create that initial draw, and convert that draw into a sustainable routine.  If you manage to do that, then its basically a money printing machine in perpetuity.  

 

A major factor that could help ECB with TV revenue, is that a t20 game starting at 3.30 pm in UK, will be prime-time in India.  So with a double-header, you could have one game that fits the Indian TV audience prime-time, and the 2nd one after that, will work for UK prime-time.  

Edited December 13, 2017 by sandeep

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, Turning_track said:

Indeed it's not easy and there are hell lot of factors involved too.

Pakistan has allowed 2 Chinese players to play in PSL to develop which is a good sign. They also helped Afghanistan cricket team in their development. 

The point which I was trying to make was that the pundits blame BCCI for not pushing the game forward in various other countries using all its money. According to them as India has got more say due to its financial power, then India should wield it to help others. But these experts cleverly overlook the fact that how cricket has been only a commonwealth game. All the major cricketing nations or the genuinely interested ones have been former British colonies. The GORAS at the MCC or in SCG, MCG have done zilch for cricket's development for more than 110 years. 

Once Afghanistan plays its test against India next year, this game might partially shed its tag for being Commonwealth game.

I feel there was a chance in the 90s for the aspiring cricket teams to embrace tests along with ODIs. But now I don't think with this t20 juggernaut anyone cares about tests. It's a long walk from here.

India has already helped Bangladesh along the way.  Few people are aware that Bangladesh was given opportunities to play in Ranji Trophy multiple before they got 'test' status.  And neither do people realize how much BCCI has helped the toygers by playing a ton of LOI cricket hosted in Bangladesh - bilateral series, repeated Asia cups, you name it - BCCI could have easily used its influence to host bulk of those multi-lateral tournaments, but it passed it along to BD, which is essentially a massive infusion of cash into the BD board's accounts.