Better captain: Ganguly or Dhoni?

[Gollum]

4 minutes ago, mishra said:

@Gollum How do you explain MSD winning trophies then? MSD himself is biggest reason for those wins. Look at CSK's performance. Same players do so well under MSD. Why because MSD plays limited overs cricket like chessboard.Everyone knows, you can kill a queen with a pawn but he executes it.

International: Luck+good team+no ATG teams around

 

IPL I don't care. Rohit Sharma has many IPL crowns, even that ****head Warner has an IPL trophy. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Gollum

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

@Gollum How do you explain MSD winning trophies then? MSD himself is biggest reason for those wins. Look at CSK's performance. Same players do so well under MSD. Why because MSD plays limited overs cricket like chessboard.Everyone knows, you can kill a queen with a pawn but he executes it.

A lot is due to his calmnes

Dhoni was far calmer in final and even azahr, ganguly was anxious and i see same problem in kohli which explains RCB record to

In comparison rohit, warner, gamhir all also looked cool in finals 

 

Finals are mostly about pressure, Pak no matter how the team was sarfraz looked calm n under control 

[New guy]

8 minutes ago, mishra said:

@Gollum How do you explain MSD winning trophies then? MSD himself is biggest reason for those wins. Look at CSK's performance. Same players do so well under MSD. Why because MSD plays limited overs cricket like chessboard.Everyone knows, you can kill a queen with a pawn but he executes it.

I can guarantee ganguly would have won wc at home. Even azhar would have if not for fixing

[Ankit_sharma03]

Ahem ahem what resources

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, New guy said:

I can guarantee ganguly would have won wc at home. Even azhar would have if not for fixing

he lost to WI, AUS, PAk at home......n he wud have won WC

HE use to loose finals like anything...........no way he wud have more

 

Azhar had more chances of winning a final then ganguly

[speedheat]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Coz he lacked ODI skill as a bowler, samne wale coach ne pakd liya tha

U said avg ......

They both had their resources , dhoni a lil better 

Ganguly - himself, sachin, sehwag, dravid , heck even laxman played damn good odi knocks, irfan at start , bhajji, Srinath who at dip was better then many bowlers. More then half yuvi and kaif who ok . So by no means he had a bad team

Dhoni - Sehwag was same, sachin, himself, gambhir who bought by replacing ganguly which no one gives him credit, yuvi again was good for only a year or two under him, Zak . Yuvi was not the same fielder under him 

 

his 2nd phase- it was kohli n himself and on patta dhawan n rohit . Ashwin n jadeja were good at home, bhajji was better overseas

 

Itna bhi farq nhin that we make out

 

Dhoni emphasises on fielding n Running btw wkts which was the biggest diff. He won CB series in aus just check that team and tell me what player did he had. 

No at start he was a good  Odi bowler infact he rightly 

35 was not a bad avg back then, he has played some terrific knocks agianst Pak.

Against that aus even rohit, dhawan stats wud have taken a hit and even kohli 

i didnt ,tum theek se padhte nhin meri galti nhin and this is ur logic only-  He was bowling well in test series so calling him in odi squad how is it a bad call?

Good thing is you agreed that dhoni had better resources even though by little margin and that was the point I was explaing trichomatric

Rest other thing especially bringing Rohit kohli into discussion is irrelevant to topic

To be honest dhoni as a captain can never reach gangulys level as 2011 WC which won WC was groomed by ganguly 

Dhoni infact was one trick pony who relied heavily on stars like UV for success

He can only be a captain cannot be  leader like ganguly

 

 

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerOpponents_ODI.asp?PlayerID=2138#bowl

Bhajji is piss poor odibbowler man don't deny it just check his stats

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, speedheat said:

To be honest dhoni as a captain can never reach gangulys level as 2011 WC which won WC was groomed by ganguly 

Wrong

yuvi was actually groomed into a better player under dravid n chappell.....who gave him a chance to bat above. He was never the same fielder under dhoni due to his poor fitness

Zak success was a lot due to a kick that chappell gave him and he went to county n became a diff bowler

 

Both were nt great under ganguly

 

Bhajji was jst an economical bowler in 2011 WC, he was a much better bowler under ganguly with old action

Sehwag played 1-2 good knocks

 

Ganguly cant take credit for sachin

Raina, kohli, gambhir were all build under dhoni 

 

Sorry to much unnessary credit to ganguly- dravid deserves credit to 

 

Didnt ganguly get - sachin, kumble, srinath, dravid from previous batch

Quote

Dhoni infact was one trick pony who relied heavily on stars like UV for success

UV wasnt there in CT 2013 ......

Yuvi was out of form in CB series 2007 

Quote

He can only be a captain cannot be  leader like ganguly

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerOpponents_ODI.asp?PlayerID=2138#bowl

Bhajji is piss poor odibbowler man don't deny it just check his stats

Stats never show the right pic....if he was bad

What good odi spinner did dhoni had 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[speedheat]

9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Wrong

yuvi was actually groomed into a better player under dravid n chappell.....who gave him a chance to bat above. He was never the same fielder under dhoni due to his poor fitness

Zak success was a lot due to a kick that chappell gave him and he went to county n became a diff bowler

 

Both were nt great under ganguly

 

Bhajji was jst an economical bowler in 2011 WC, he was a much better bowler under ganguly with old action

Sehwag played 1-2 good knocks

 

Ganguly cant take credit for sachin

Raina, kohli, gambhir were all build under dhoni 

 

Sorry to much unnessary credit to ganguly- dravid deserves credit to 

 

Didnt ganguly get - sachin, kumble, srinath, dravid from previous batch

UV wasnt there in CT 2013 ......

Yuvi was out of form in CB series 2007 

Stats never show the right pic....if he was bad

What good odi spinner did dhoni had 

1. Youvi hit 6 sixes under  dhoni, was stellar performer in2011wc under dhoni and if that's not his peak don't know. what its  

2.you already agreed dhoni had better resource so again debating the same is irrelevant I guess

3. My friend ashwin and jadeja are 10000000000 times better than bhajji who both played under dhoni now don't say its wrong lol

Rest other points doesn't make dhoni look better than ganguly

[mishra]

15 minutes ago, Gollum said:

International: Luck+good team+no ATG teams around

 

IPL I don't care. Rohit Sharma has many IPL crowns, even that ****head Warner has an IPL trophy. 

Did anyone here ever thought we had a chance in winning t20 world cup or odi world cup, or our performance will be so emphatic in champions trophy? Its not Luck. He used to be hungry for wins. As i said, Ian Bell episode was turning point of his captaincy career. It has only gone downhill since then

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, speedheat said:

1. Youvi hit 6 sixes under  dhoni, was stellar performer in2011wc under dhoni and if that's not his peak don't know. what its  

No that wasnt his peek

his peek was from 2005 late to 2008 then injuries and form dipped before 2011 WC

Have u forgoten he was dropped for so many series before 2011 WC, how is that peek when ur dropped

Gary kirsten bashed him for his weight in 2010WC t20.....

2007 Cb series he was woefully out of form which we won 

 

Alone those 6 sixes didnt win u wc, gambhir, rp n irfam played huge role and those guys dnt even get to much credit. 

1 minute ago, speedheat said:

2.you already agreed dhoni had better resource so again debating the same is irrelevant I guess

A bit .....but that will happen with every captain it how u use them

Ganguly use to reach final with same resources why to loose

 

I have constatnly asked u about winning in 2007Cb series against aussie in their own backyard what resources we had.....i have given scorecard above

Wo tu jawab nhin dega.....waha jawab hi nhin tere pass 

1 minute ago, speedheat said:

3. My friend ashwin and jadeja are 10000000000 times better than bhajji who both played under dhoni now don't say its wrong lol

Rest other points doesn't make dhoni look better than ganguly

nope they are not 

Bhajji was better ......have a thread and get ur answer. Bhajji played for almost 11-12 yrs those guys lost it in few yrs

 

Go ahead make a thread n get ur answer 

[mishra]

24 minutes ago, New guy said:

I can guarantee ganguly would have won wc at home. Even azhar would have if not for fixing

2003 team was exceptional difference was Gilly.

in 1996 we had a decent team but difference was D Silva

in 2011, Difference was Dhoni

[SK_IH]

35 minutes ago, New guy said:

I can guarantee ganguly would have won wc at home. Even azhar would have if not for fixing

 

[speedheat]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No that wasnt his peek

his peek was from 2005 late to 2008 then injuries and form dipped before 2011 WC

Have u forgoten he was dropped for so many series before 2011 WC, how is that peek when ur dropped

Gary kirsten bashed him for his weight in 2010WC t20.....

2007 Cb series he was woefully out of form which we won 

 

Alone those 6 sixes didnt win u wc, gambhir, rp n irfam played huge role and those guys dnt even get to much credit. 

A bit .....but that will happen with every captain it how u use them

Ganguly use to reach final with same resources why to loose

 

I have constatnly asked u about winning in 2007Cb series against aussie in their own backyard what resources we had.....i have given scorecard above

Wo tu jawab nhin dega.....waha jawab hi nhin tere pass 

nope they are not 

Bhajji was better ......have a thread and get ur answer. Bhajji played for almost 11-12 yrs those guys lost it in few yrs

 

Go ahead make a thread n get ur answer 

See in 2007 WC it was youvi again who helped us to win that WC more than the captaincy of dhoni, dhoni was piss poor in that WC, never lead us as a true captain, don't think dhoni did anything special which other captains wouldn't have done

CB series it was tendu and bowlers 

Sorry these doesn't prove the might of dhonis captaincy lol sorry again

 

Man seriously if you calling bhajji a better loi bowler than ashwin n jaddu, than I seriously doubt your cricketing acumen and I am not even trolling that's manjrekars level stupidity.

[Trichromatic]

41 minutes ago, New guy said:

I can guarantee ganguly would have won wc at home. Even azhar would have if not for fixing

Out of 9 series played at home India won only 3 under Ganguly and yes there is a guarantee that we would have won WC.

 

3-1 against piss poor ODI team of England, ended up with drawn series 3-3

4-3 against WI at home

2-0 against Pakistan and ended up losing 4-2

 

2 wins against Zimbabwe and 1 against SA in his first series.

[Trichromatic]

Ganguly inherited good ODI team and won hist first series against strong saffers at home. After that his captaincy reduced it to a team capable of winning only against Zimbabwe at home.

 

Failed to win anything against other teams from thereon in India. No captain would have given so weak performances at home.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, speedheat said:

See in 2007 WC it was youvi again who helped us to win that WC more than the captaincy of dhoni, dhoni was piss poor in that WC, never lead us as a true captain, don't think dhoni did anything special which other captains wouldn't have done

CB series it was tendu and bowlers 

Sorry these doesn't prove the might of dhonis captaincy lol sorry again

 

Man seriously if you calling bhajji a better loi bowler than ashwin n jaddu, than I seriously doubt your cricketing acumen and I am not even trolling that's manjrekars level stupidity.

Please stop giving credit to alone yuvi and if u give credit to yuvi was 2011 Wc well dhoni deserves credit for backing him, he was constantly dropped before that 2011 and dhoni backed him. 

 

Rp, irfan performed almost in every game apart from 1-2, yuvi only in 2 games

Dhoni was a piss poor captain, he was spot on with his captaincy and if u win with that young team well u have to do something write. 

 

There have been many gr8 captains in past who have been succesful despite not performing. 

 

Dhoni cups are enough to prove it , 

 

Go ahead make a thread regd bhajji as odi bowler and get ur answer why are u scared.....go ahead 

 

Accumen- hahahaha....yea coming from u who still hasnt recovered from the embarssment CSK quota points

Edited January 3, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

55 minutes ago, New guy said:

I can guarantee ganguly would have won wc at home. Even azhar would have if not for fixing

wasnt azhar captain in 1996 at home.....

[SLICKR392]

2 hours ago, Laaloo said:

But you can't deny the fact that winning trophies became a little easier when we were at least guraranteed a qf spot at the least after our embarrassment in 2007. Granted in 2003 final we lost, but that WC run was impressive in foreign conditions. 

Again, I prefer trophies over impressive runs. Small team mentality. 

[mancalledsting]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Then how come team had better W/L ratio under Azhar along with multiple wins in finals.

 

Better team, lower win loss ratio to go with 9 losses in final. How is that improvement?

 

Overall figures

Captain	Teams	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
*V Kohli	1	2013-2017	43	33	9	0	1	3.666	49.03	5.81	43	404	158
*MS Dhoni	1	2007-2016	199	110	74	4	11	1.486	36.86	5.58	195	414	88
*R Dravid	1	2000-2007	79	42	33	0	4	1.272	33.86	5.15	78	413	91
*M Azharuddin	1	1990-1999	174	90	76	2	6	1.184	32.29	4.71	173	373	100
*N Kapil Dev	1	1982-1987	74	39	33	0	2	1.181	30.76	4.60	74	299	78
*SC Ganguly	1	1999-2005	146	76	65	0	5	1.169	32.79	5.13	145	356	54

 

 

Ganguly isn't in top 5 in ODIs for a reason.

Consider the relative strength of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Australia during Ganguly's time and MSD's time and its not as if Dhoni's way out ahead of Dada...don't be afraid to use a little common sense once in a while 

[rkt.india]

31 minutes ago, mishra said:

2003 team was exceptional difference was Gilly.

in 1996 we had a decent team but difference was D Silva

in 2011, Difference was Dhoni

in 96 difference was fixing. bowling first on that pitch was the worst decision ever taken by a captain and cant be without fixing.