Pandya's bowling in the 1st 2 ODIs

[maniac]

With Indian batsmen you score a 100 that is not good enough, you have to score over and over and over to cement your place given the competition. 

 

With bowlers too these days that that seems to be the case.

 

Only 2 guaranteed spots are there under the There is no alternative category- Keeper and Allrounder and we seem to be over defending them.

[Ankit_sharma03]

39 minutes ago, maniac said:

Lol Ben Stokes can play as a pure bat at no.5 for his side....cannot guarantee that with Pandya yet.

and the better stokes also went through poor stats then pandya 

thats why patience is important 

 

We dnt even need him at 5, we need him at 7 .........and no one can tonk the ball at 7 like him 

39 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

There is one thing saying Pandya is a rare talent and needs to be handled properly or groomed well and there is another thing already anointing him a superstar....that has clearly gone to his head...I haven’t seen him improve at all

aince his debut,he is still one mercurial

performance followed by 5 mediocre ones....looks like we have our own version of Afridi.

who said he is a superstar 

has gone to his head how??????

 

so at 7 ull get consistent perfomances ....wow 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

47 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Ben Stokes was dropped for non performance. He had to make a comeback. 

where is non perfomance from pandya ???

 

When u drop someone  askurself?? 

1st thing has he done badly

2nd who is there to take his place 

 

N both cases go in favour of pandya .........might have not gone in favour of stokes

 

Like i remeber stokes was dropped after making 0,0,0 against india at home..................

where has pandya performed badly ??

[saik]

Pandya's bowling is rubbish right now but his batting is game changing. Cannot drop such talent.One way is to make him bat at no.6 and instead of Jadhav and add one more allrounder or a strike bowler to the team.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Last time I checked Pandya had better stats than Stokes as a white ball bowler.   

 

You need to stop thinking of Pandya as a bowling allrounder.  Think of him as a young lower-order batsman who can bowl a few overs for you.  Comparisons to Binny, and Irfan Pathan are silly - those guys were bowlers who could bat a bit.  Pandya is the reverse.  

 

I'm all for giving Pandya competition whether its Deepak Hooda/Krunal Pandya/Vijay Shankar.   By all means, we should get these guys involved.   

 

But there are a couple of people on this thread who are being unduly harsh on Pandya.  I suspect because they had written him off earlier, and were pretty much waiting for an opportunity to claim that they were right all along.  

Where as Pandya proved that he is superior batsman to Binny or Pathan.What stats he has better than Stokes. Stokes has three odi hundreds and Pandya has none.Stokes is capable of making 250 in a test match, is Pandya capable of doing it.

 

I don't want Pandya to fail but I am not seeing any improvement especially in his bowling, he will never be no 6 in tests his batting has no solidity to it.So unless he improves his bowling I don't see how he can be long term prospect.

 

I really hope I am wrong in his assessment.They really need him in England if we have to win there.

[King Tendulkar]

The guy is a batting all rounder 

 

he has not batted in this series yet. Give a chance ffs 

[sandeep]

46 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

where is non perfomance from pandya ???

 

When u drop someone  askurself?? 

1st thing has he done badly

2nd who is there to take his place 

 

N both cases go in favour of pandya .........might have not gone in favour of stokes

 

Like i remeber stokes was dropped after making 0,0,0 against india at home..................

where has pandya performed badly ??

Logic is not going to work, especially with folks who are just going to stick fingers in their ears and keep shouting "I was right" - even if they are wrong.

[maniac]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Avg 20 in any era is not done 

 

u talk about era, dnt u knw how conditions have gone so much in favour of batsman

Had pandya bowled in that era with his speeds he wud have had a lot more wkts 

Yes, pandya is confirmed player in t20 n odi n has made a case in test cricket 

Pandya is an intergral member of this side

He is the lone power hitter

he plays the role of a floater

he has opened bowling when needed and bowled at death on few occasions

 

 

Yes their has been a lot of improvement in pandya bowling .......he has developed cutter and bowls good yorker at times. He varies his length a lot more then he use to

@express bowling can emphasis more 

Thats bhuvi main job, Pandya job is those overs and batting (which bhuvi doenst have)

 

Again like i said in test 

If rohit or dhawan fails with bat they cnt come back n contribute with ball. which pandya can

If bhuvi fails with ball he is useless, pandya can come n contribute with bat n fielding (pandya is yet to fail as bowler)

Yea kapil dev became kaipl dev in his 40th inning .....right

Pandya has shown tremendous improvement in batting n bowling , if u only u open ur eyes

That’s what pulling stats without subjectively does....Kapil was the main strike bowler and the best bowler in the team....it’s not like he had any competition in the fast bowling department.He was the new ball bowler regardless of the average and probably the only good one in the country then....him avarrging 20 is more of a bonus then a draw back.

 

Pandya is neither the best fast bowler because there is a sub 25 bowler waiting in the squad or neither is he the best batsman in the squad...he is neither this not that.

 

[BeautifulGame]

6 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Yes, Irfan was a better skilled at bowling and his batting was secondary skill.

Hardik is more like better skilled at ODI batting, I repeat ODI batting and secondary skill being bowling. It does seems like that watching him in ODI's. However is he fit to be in team as specialist ODI batsman batting at 5 or 6. In that case all problems are resolved. Then his one wicket per match will be accepted.

He is not a specialist batsman .He is the big hitting batsman who bats and at 7 and can give 6-7 overs .And his role is clearly defined .

 

If he can bat at 5 or 6 regularly  , no one would expect him to bowl let alone take one  wicket per match.

 

And averaging 30+ with a strike rate of 120 in excellent for a no.7 

[Straight Drive]

8 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

where is non perfomance from pandya ???

 

When u drop someone  askurself?? 

1st thing has he done badly

2nd who is there to take his place 

 

N both cases go in favour of pandya .........might have not gone in favour of stokes

 

Like i remeber stokes was dropped after making 0,0,0 against india at home..................

where has pandya performed badly ??

To answer your question where is non performance, i would say :

(1) 34 wickets in 33 ODI bowling innings is a non performance when eco. rate is 5.49.

(2)The fact that he is either not capable to bat at or before 6 or for some reason he is not being given to bat at 6 is not allowing us to play 5 good bowlers. 

(3) He is not a developed all rounder, that too is non performance. He is not a new comer. His ODI career is a good enough 34 ODI's.

 

Hardik batting at 7 is a problem, it makes us play a bowler less. Ideally, what can be done is drop some batsman who has bad average and SR for new age cricket. Let Hardik bat at 6, then even what is gives as batsman + 1 wicket per match + fielding will serve the purpose as his inability to be 5th bowler would not matter. Move the batting order up one place and make Hardik bat at 6. Play 5 proper bowlers. 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Straight Drive

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, BeautifulGame said:

He is not a specialist batsman .He is the big hitting batsman who bats and at 7 and can give 6-7 overs .And his role is clearly defined .

 

If he can bat at 5 or 6 regularly  , no one would expect him to bowl let alone take one  wicket per match.

 

And averaging 30+ with a strike rate of 120 in excellent for a no.7 

At 7 his average of 30 with SR of 120 is excellent,  there is hardly any doubt for me. However, if one is going to make him bat at 5 or 6, then in that case he has to average higher than 30 for sure. Otherwise if he keeps on averaging 30 then he will have to give us bowling options.  

[Straight Drive]

Having watched, Kapil, Imran, Ian Botham, Chris Cairns, Watson, Bravo, Flintoff, Jacques Kallis, Shaun Pollock and now the impact of Ben Stokes on Team England and that of Shakib Hasan on  Bangladesh, I do feel that a proper all rounder will definitely balance the things  a lot for any team which has a proper all-rounder. And having watched all of those, i would not yet classify Hardik as an all-rounder.

 

It was good that the think tank tried and is continuing to try to develop one multi-skilled cricketer into a all rounder by giving him 34 ODI matches. The performance has to come from the cricketer though to be classed as an all rounder. 34 ODI in such a competitive age in such a competitive team and a well renowned cricketing country nowadays is good enough opportunity. Players cannot say 34 ODI matches for Team India is a very short opportunity to prove. they even rested him for some series recently to help reduce work load. Being an allrounder there is always going to be the extra burden and that is why there are lot of successful  specialist batsmen and successful specialist bowlers, but very few successful all-rounders.

 

All-rounders of those class are very few. All countries are struggling to find one proper all rounder. It's just not Team India which is struggling. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Straight Drive

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

That’s what pulling stats without subjectively does....Kapil was the main strike bowler and the best bowler in the team....it’s not like he had any competition in the fast bowling department.He was the new ball bowler regardless of the average and probably the only good one in the country then....him avarrging 20 is more of a bonus then a draw back.

 

Pandya is neither the best fast bowler because there is a sub 25 bowler waiting in the squad or neither is he the best batsman in the squad...he is neither this not that.

 

If Kapil was the main strike bowler then pandya has pretty similar wkt tally in same number of games till now and pandya wkt tally is also similar to bhuvi 

so he has been doing as much as a main bowler and then he bats n fields as well 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

To answer your question where is non performance, i would say :

(1) 34 wickets in 33 ODI bowling innings is a non performance when eco. rate is 5.49.

Many bowlers wud have similar stats , bhuvi n kapil are 2 examples 

an eco under 6 these days is good 

which means he gives 54 runs takes 1 wkt in 10 overs, save runs on field, make runs at good s/r 

its a win win package . 

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

(2)The fact that he is either not capable to bat at or before 6 or for some reason he is not being given to bat at 6 is not allowing us to play 5 good bowlers. 

He has been given promotion many times

he has a 78 score at 4th position 

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

(3) He is not a developed all rounder, that too is non performance. He is not a new comer. His ODI career is a good enough 34 ODI's.

Even yuvraj singh n irfan pathan were not developed all rounders in 1st few yrs

why are u expecting a developed all rounder of a guy who has one season domestic exp

or what kapil dev or imran khan u have in domestic who place he is blocking

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

 

Hardik batting at 7 is a problem, it makes us play a bowler less. Ideally, what can be done is drop some batsman who has bad average and SR for new age cricket. Let Hardik bat at 6, then even what is gives as batsman + 1 wicket per match + fielding will serve the purpose as his inability to be 5th bowler would not matter. Move the batting order up one place and make Hardik bat at 6. Play 5 proper bowlers. 

 

hardik at 7 is a boon , coz u need someone with high s/r in lower order 

No u dnt drop a batsman specially when u dnt have a number 4 that weekens our batting 

 

Hardik is not goo enough to bowl 10 overs every day but he can bowl 6-7 over easily, u just 

U add another all rounder who can give u more then 5 overs regularly like a krunal or shankar thats it

[Straight Drive]

16 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Many bowlers wud have similar stats , bhuvi n kapil are 2 examples 

an eco under 6 these days is good 

which means he gives 54 runs takes 1 wkt in 10 overs, save runs on field, make runs at good s/r 

its a win win package . 

He has been given promotion many times

he has a 78 score at 4th position 

Even yuvraj singh n irfan pathan were not developed all rounders in 1st few yrs

why are u expecting a developed all rounder of a guy who has one season domestic exp

or what kapil dev or imran khan u have in domestic who place he is blocking

hardik at 7 is a boon , coz u need someone with high s/r in lower order 

No u dnt drop a batsman specially when u dnt have a number 4 that weekens our batting 

 

Hardik is not goo enough to bowl 10 overs every day but he can bowl 6-7 over easily, u just 

U add another all rounder who can give u more then 5 overs regularly like a krunal or shankar thats it

First of all , i would not compare him with Kapil. He is nowhere near his class. 

 

Hardik at 7 is not a boon imo, at this point of time. Given his bowling performance so far in 33 bowling innings, we are weak on bowling. We are actually a  strike bowler short  by his presence at No. 7, and there are many talented speedsters waiting in the queue today, such is the scenario of the availability of pace bowlers in Indian cricket today. There is no better pace all-rounder in reserves, however there are far too many superior bowlers who deserve at least 10 ODI bowling innings if not 33. He does not necessarily be replaced with all rounder. No. 7 can be replaced by specialist strike bowler.

 

If we cannot find a all-rounder it is fine, we can still win with specialist batters and bowlers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

5 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

At 7 his average of 30 with SR of 120 is excellent,  there is hardly any doubt for me. However, if one is going to make him bat at 5 or 6, then in that case he has to average higher than 30 for sure. Otherwise if he keeps on averaging 30 then he will have to give us bowling options.  

 

Pandya  averages 33.6 in ODIs ( with a SR of 118 )   ...  Raina and Sehwag averaged 35, Yuvraj 36 .... S. Waugh and Richardson around 33 ... Gilchrist and Gibbs around 36 ... and it goes on.

 

Many well celebrated specialist ODI batters average between 32 and 36 ... and usually with lesser strike rates.

[BeautifulGame]

10 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

At 7 his average of 30 with SR of 120 is excellent,  there is hardly any doubt for me. However, if one is going to make him bat at 5 or 6, then in that case he has to average higher than 30 for sure. Otherwise if he keeps on averaging 30 then he will have to give us bowling options.  

He is not going to bat at 5 regularly because we have better pure batsman at no.5 and Pandya role is finisher.

 

Also he already gives us good bowling options .He regularly bowls 6-7 overs and on a good day gives you good 10 overs.Infact Pandya ratio of picking a wicket per innings is excellent for the fifth bowler.

 

You are excepting India to play with 5 quality bowlers which we never have done .Not even our best teams neither did the best Aussie teams .Yuvi averaged nearly 40 and he was our fifth bowling option going into 2011 WC.And less said about our 5th bowling option Dinesh Mongia in 2003 WC the better.

 

Hardik Pandya is arguably the 2nd   best 5 bowler we have had in decades .Only Jadeja was better and his batting is miles behind Pandya particularly for a no7 bat.

Edited February 6, 2018 by BeautifulGame

[Straight Drive]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Pandya  averages 33.6 in ODIs ( with a SR of 118 )   ...  Raina and Sehwag averaged 35, Yuvraj 36 .... S. Waugh and Richardson around 33 ... Gilchrist and Gibbs around 36 ... and it goes on.

 

Many well celebrated specialist ODI batters average between 32 and 36 ... and usually with lesser strike rates.

Well fair enough if you think he is better than Sehwag, Yuvi and Raina as ODI batsman. I have a different opinion in that Sehwag, Raina and Yuvi were all much better ODI batsmen than him. 

[Straight Drive]

3 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

He is not going to bat at 5 regularly because we have better pure batsman at no.5 and Pandya role is finisher.

 

Also he already gives us good bowling options .He regularly bowls 6-7 overs and on a good day gives you good 10 overs.Infact Pandya ratio of picking a wicket per innings is excellent for the fifth bowler.

 

You are excepting India to play with 5 quality bowlers which we never have done .Not even our best teams neither did the best Aussie teams .Yuvi averaged nearly 40 and he was our fifth bowling option going into 2011 WC.And less said about our 5th bowling option Dinesh Mongia in 2003 WC the better.

 

Hardik Pandya is arguably the 2nd   best 5 bowler we have had in decades .Only Jadeja was better and his batting is miles behind Pandya particularly for a no7 bat.

Yuvi might have averaged 40 but he took 15 wickets in 9 matches in that WC. He was one of the top 5 bowlers in that tournament.  He also scored 362 runs in 8 innings. 2011 was a series where Yuvi played like a proper all rounder in both disciplines. 

 

Regarding Hardik, i do feel he has improved his bowling by not bowling the leg side balls that he used to , however he needs to add wickets. I am okay with his rpo below 6 in this modern day cricket and considering he is not a specialist bowler. The pressure is released when he comes to ball and there is a chance that partnership will build.

 

 

[sandeep]

10 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

To answer your question where is non performance, i would say :

(1) 34 wickets in 33 ODI bowling innings is a non performance when eco. rate is 5.49.

This is the bottomline with your perspective on Pandya.  You keep focusing on his bowling, when he's a #6 bat who gives you a few overs.  

 

As @express bowling has already pointed out, purely from a numbers perspective his batting is good enough to play as a #6 bat.  And that's in spite of hardly getting any opportunities to play big innings.  He's always tasked with throwing his bat to get extra runs for the team, or comes in when wickets have fallen in a pressure situation while chasing.  In this scenario, he has shown excellent temperament and potential as a "finisher".  

 

and btw, in 2018, an econ rate of 5.49 is acceptable for a 6th bowler.   And so is taking a wicket or so every game.   

 

Can he do better?  Yes.   Has he done enough to justify selection?  Handily.