Poll : Is Sachin the Greatest batsmen to have played the sport?

[rkt.india]

43 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

But it was?

 

Look at the best ODI bowlers going around in the 90s

 

 

There are at least 8-9 ATG bowlers in this list.

 

Compare it to the best bowlers of this decade

 

 

I mean is there even a comparison. Except for Starc, would any of these guys be considered ODI greats by the time they are finished? Batting in ODIs has just got infinitely easier. Which is why you have folks like Williamson/Guptill having better raw stats than Lara and Rohit Sharma having better raw stats than Ponting.

who are those 8-9 ATG ODI bowlers in this list of 90s? Murli was not ATG in 90s, Warne wasnt. There are just three ATG ODI bowlers in this list Wasim, Waqar and then McGrath  and this fallacy because bowlers are not averaging sub 20, they are not great is wrong. it all depends on the scores.  ODIs are batting oriented which means average scores are higher because batsmen are better, not because bowlers are bad. stroke making has become better. chasing 300 in 90s was monumental because scoring anything 6 an over was tough. why?  because we barely had any batsmen batting at SR 85 plus. check how many 300 plus scores made in 90s. not many, why because batsmen were not trained to score at a high pace.  I would say any bowler averaging 25-27 in this era with an ER of less than 5.25 is an ODI ATG.

[Pollack]

1 minute ago, sourab10forever said:

Toh phir vote kardo na...

Try and find a 'yes' and select it.

I see a yes option first. No need to check other options. 

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

So how can you claim Sachin 98 as some how as  magical innings against greatest bowlers so it should overlook all his other shortcomings. No said Sachin was a bad batsman or he was not great.

Akram and Younis were on their last legs that is point so don't glorify that 98 as this magical innings made against Akram the greatest left arm fast bowler in his prime.

You are claiming that 98 as an evidence that somehow that is  the greatest innings played any batsmen.I have seen Sachin all my life and I have seen Kohli rise thru and become this giant and in my personal point of view Kohli the odi batsman is far superior to Sachin the odi batsman and it is not even close.

 

Nothing more to  post w.r.t this.Not worth to discuss with a person who believes that a bowler of 31 years old was on his last legs.

[Jimmy Cliff]

57 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

who are those 8-9 ATG ODI bowlers in this list of 90s? Murli was not ATG in 90s, Warne wasnt. There are just three ATG ODI bowlers in this list Wasim, Waqar and then McGrath  and this fallacy because bowlers are not averaging sub 20, they are not great is wrong. it all depends on the scores. 

Huh? Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Warne, McGrath and Ambrose. Thought it was pretty obvious. Murali wasn't a great ODI bowler in the 90s but went on to become one in 00s. Then you had guys like McDermott and Fleming performing at an extremely high level in the 90s. Who exactly are their equivalent bowlers in this decade besides Starc? As for Warne, how is he not an ATG despite having a superb overall record and multiple match-winning performances in WC KO games?

 

57 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

ODIs are batting oriented which means average scores are higher because batsmen are better, not because bowlers are bad. stroke making has become better. chasing 300 in 90s was monumental because scoring anything 6 an over was tough. why?  because we barely had any batsmen batting at SR 85 plus. check how many 300 plus scores made in 90s. not many, why because batsmen were not trained to score at a high pace.

It's the other way around. Chasing 280+ (forget 300) was borderline impossible in the 90s as the top 4 sides (AUS/SA/PAK/WI) generally had good to very good attacks most of the time. As a batsman, if you're chasing 300, who'd you rather face -

 

Warne/McGrath/Fleming + one out of Reiffel/Gillespie/McDermott or Starc/Hazlewood/Cummins/Mitch Marsh/Zampa

Akram/Waqar/Saqlain/Aaqib or Ajmal/Gul/Junaid/Wahab etc

Ambrose/Walsh/Patterson/Bishop/Benjamins or Rampaul/Holder/Bishoo/Joseph

Donald/Pollock/DeVilliers/Klusener/Kallis or Steyn/Morkel/Rabada/Tahir

 

Only the SA attack is remotely close to their 90s attack and even here Steyn is not a patch on Donald and Pollock as an ODI bowler. No wonder many more 300+ scores are made these days.

 

57 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I would say any bowler averaging 25-27 in this era with an ER of less than 5.25 is an ODI ATG.

So you'd regard Morne Morkel, Boult, Tahir and Johnson as ODI ATGs but not Warne? Okay.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Jimmy Cliff

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Sachin did play across two decades, his career spanned from odis where avg score was 220 to matches where avg score was 300-350 too.

So there is no excuse oh Sachin's era was different.

Sachin was a awesome  and great player but he did struggle against good bowlers in their backyards especially in Australia/NZ/SA/Eng if you take out weaker minnow teams in these countries his stats look even worse.

 

So how can this player be the greatest of all time.

Which ODIs were those?

 

ODI cricket started changing from 2007 and why do you need excuse when he best ODI bat for India from 2008 to 2011?

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
MS Dhoni	2008-2011	100	89	27	3659	124	59.01	4343	84.25	4	26	1	264	55
SR Tendulkar	2008-2011	46	45	4	2149	200*	52.41	2311	92.99	7	8	1	234	24
V Sehwag	2008-2011	62	61	2	2794	219	47.35	2271	123.02	7	12	2	381	61
V Kohli	2008-2011	74	71	10	2860	118	46.88	3407	83.94	8	18	5	274	15
G Gambhir	2008-2011	87	83	8	3357	150*	44.76	3692	90.92	7	22	6	354	13
Yuvraj Singh	2008-2011	79	75	12	2478	138*	39.33	2758	89.84	5	15	5	256	63
SK Raina	2008-2011	99	87	17	2638	116*	37.68	2687	98.17	3	17	6	220	66
RG Sharma	2008-2011	68	65	16	1749	114	35.69	2213	79.03	2	10	5	122	20
RA Jadeja	2009-2011	48	32	8	755	78	31.45	948	79.64	0	5	4	60	9
KD Karthik	2009-2010	26	24	2	678	79	30.81	880	77.04	0	3	2	76	8

 

High average + high SR with century every 6 match. Which other batsman had such performance?

 

[putrevus]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Which ODIs were those?

 

ODI cricket started changing from 2007 and why do you need excuse when he best ODI bat for India from 2008 to 2011?

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
MS Dhoni	2008-2011	100	89	27	3659	124	59.01	4343	84.25	4	26	1	264	55
SR Tendulkar	2008-2011	46	45	4	2149	200*	52.41	2311	92.99	7	8	1	234	24
V Sehwag	2008-2011	62	61	2	2794	219	47.35	2271	123.02	7	12	2	381	61
V Kohli	2008-2011	74	71	10	2860	118	46.88	3407	83.94	8	18	5	274	15
G Gambhir	2008-2011	87	83	8	3357	150*	44.76	3692	90.92	7	22	6	354	13
Yuvraj Singh	2008-2011	79	75	12	2478	138*	39.33	2758	89.84	5	15	5	256	63
SK Raina	2008-2011	99	87	17	2638	116*	37.68	2687	98.17	3	17	6	220	66
RG Sharma	2008-2011	68	65	16	1749	114	35.69	2213	79.03	2	10	5	122	20
RA Jadeja	2009-2011	48	32	8	755	78	31.45	948	79.64	0	5	4	60	9
KD Karthik	2009-2010	26	24	2	678	79	30.81	880	77.04	0	3	2	76	8

 

High average + high SR with century every 6 match. Which other batsman had such performance?

 

No one denied he was the best overall Indian batsman but point of debate is he best ever? 

 

Kohli in recent past has over taken him as best odi batsmen from India.

[sourab10forever]

10 hours ago, Pollack said:

I see a yes option first. No need to check other options. 

Arre not that option

You were supposed to vote 'yes' and not 'yes'

Kya yaar tum bhi...

[Trichromatic]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

No one denied he was the best overall Indian batsman but point of debate is he best ever? 

 

Kohli in recent past has over taken him as best odi batsmen from India.

Best ODI batsman who is yet to score a 50 in any final?

 

Best ODI batsman averaging 41 in world cup? Given that his strong suite is chasing, he is yet to score a 50 while chasing in World Cup and yet you berate that 98 against Pakistan saying bowlers were over the hill. Kohli is yet to do it even against minnows in world cup.

 

Yet to score 400 runs in any tournament even after playing 10 years of ODI cricket.

[anish2tweet]

No. Rahul Dravid is the greatest. Tendulkar did not win test matches for us abroad under pressure. Kohli is a great too and how many test matches he will win for us in Aus and Eng will tell if he is all time great or not.

[Trichromatic]

5 hours ago, anish2tweet said:

No. Rahul Dravid is the greatest. Tendulkar did not win test matches for us abroad under pressure. Kohli is a great too and how many test matches he will win for us in Aus and Eng will tell if he is all time great or not.

Then how was he top/2nd scorer in 7 out of 9 test wins overseas? 

[sourab10forever]

31 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Then how was he top/2nd scorer in 7 out of 9 test wins overseas? 

Magic

[anish2tweet]

17 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Then how was he top/2nd scorer in 7 out of 9 test wins overseas? 

He did not win us under pressure in 2nd innings abroad.

[Trichromatic]

4 hours ago, anish2tweet said:

He did not win us under pressure in 2nd innings abroad.

Hmm, anything else since performing in 70% wins is not enough.

[putrevus]

On 2/12/2018 at 9:27 PM, Trichromatic said:

Best ODI batsman who is yet to score a 50 in any final?

 

Best ODI batsman averaging 41 in world cup? Given that his strong suite is chasing, he is yet to score a 50 while chasing in World Cup and yet you berate that 98 against Pakistan saying bowlers were over the hill. Kohli is yet to do it even against minnows in world cup.

 

Yet to score 400 runs in any tournament even after playing 10 years of ODI cricket.

How many fifties did Sachin score and how many finals did he play vs Kohli.

 

How many chases in world cup has he been involved? how many tournaments has he played vs how many tournaments  Sachin played and how many 400 runs did Sachin score??

 

To chase in world cup he needs to  have a chase , how many chases has failed.

He failed in CT finals and world cup semis which are two major chases where Kohli has failed care to list where Kohli has failed.

 

[Trichromatic]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How many fifties did Sachin score and how many finals did he play vs Kohli.

 

How many chases in world cup has he been involved?

how many tournaments has he played vs how many tournaments  Sachin played and how many 400 runs did Sachin score??

 

To chase in world cup he needs to  have a chase , how many chases has failed.

He failed in CT finals and world cup semis which are two major chases where Kohli has failed care to list where Kohli has failed.

 

Kohli is yet to score a fifty in 8 finals. Tendulkar had 3 fifties in his first 8 finals. Any reason why he hasn't scored single fifty in his career so far?

 

Kohli has 0 fifty in his 9 chases in world cup. Tendulkar had 4 fifties (including 98) and 1 century in first 9 chases in world cup. Funny how you dismissed 98 as weak bowling attack while Kohli has missed out playing against mighty Ireland, Netherlands, WI and Zimbabwe. 

From your other post:

Quote

Don't give me world cups where you get to feast on Nambias and Kenyas.

 

Any reason why greatest chaser has failed to feast on them?

 

For 400, already mentioned, he did it twice by age of 24, once in a 5 match tournament. Why has Kohli failed to do so in 10 years of his career?

 

 

[Vijy]

Since this question is probably about the best all-format player, it should go to peak Viv. He was a better ODI bat than Tendy and Kohli, although perhaps not as good a Test bat as Tendy (but better than VK).

 

If Lara had taken ODIs seriously, he would have become the greatest all-format player leapfrogging Viv and Tendu.