Ind polled as the most dangerous country for women

[beetle]

On 7/12/2018 at 10:19 AM, Muloghonto said:

Behna, 

you are preaching to the choir. In India, most working women have in-laws involved is because the men don't do jack at home. Simple fact is, i realized when i immigrated at 17, is Indian men are not brought up to be anything more than 'paying guests' at home. 

Some adapt to the reality of the west, where you gotta do a crap ton of housework to have a decent place. But in reality, most i've encountered, back at home or here, do nothing to help out at home. They consider 'i change light bulbs when it breaks down, unclog the drain and bring home the $$' as doing their part at home. In

Bhai...I wrote the same thing.

 

True...equality should be both ways.

That is the ideal situation .

But it doesn't happen.

 

1)So the choice is between doing it herself...ie work at home, go out and earn and then come back and work at home again.

 

2)Or get the inlaws ( mostly) or parents involved and that brings a whole host of other stuff into the equation that makes on wonder whether she is independent at all.

 

3)Or Stay at home and take care of home herself and let the guy get the bread home.

 

Personally....I am not a super woman, not do I care to be one.I have limited capability as a human and woman and I want to enjoy my life and make sure husband also enjoys his life.

 

Unless the game is fair, I choose not to play.

 

Many educated women choose to be housewives as the lesser of the two evils. ...because they do not see much improvement in their life as working women who have to do everything at home too or have to deal with living with in laws which is far more difficult. Inspite of this , they rarely have financial control.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by beetle

[Muloghonto]

@beetle

Why is option 2) about woman's independence ?! If in-laws are gonna help (or daycare is involved), its nearly equally impacting (and responsibility) of the husband too. 

You are operating from the notion that a kid is primarily a woman's responsibility. Beyond breast-feeding age, it is equally both parent's responsibility. As such, having a friend/in-laws/babysitters/daycare etc. are considerations that both take in equally. 

 

Why would you choose option a) anyways ? 

Option a) is what is wrong with Indian society- the option needs to be quite simply ' we both work outside and for our home'. Its fairly simple and one day Indians will realize it when value of manpower in India rises and we don't have dime-a-dozen Dhonis and such to facilitate the 'paying guest' mentality at home.

[beetle]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

@beetle

Why is option 2) about woman's independence ?! If in-laws are gonna help (or daycare is involved), its nearly equally impacting (and responsibility) of the husband too. 

Try living with Indian in laws as a bahu...

 

It often means giving up your basic independence.

The  right to decide how to live, what to eat, when to sleep, when to wake up, how to raise your kid , how to talk to your husband , how to spend your vacation, how to spend your leave, when to visit your own parents, how long to visit your parents, when your parents can visit you .....it is too much .

 

I would rather have independence over my life than financial independence .

 

 

[beetle]

On 7/12/2018 at 12:13 PM, Muloghonto said:

Option a) is what is wrong with Indian society- the option needs to be quite simply ' we both work outside and for our home'. Its fairly simple and one day Indians will realize it when value of manpower in India rises and we don't have dime-a-dozen Dhonis and such to facilitate the 'paying guest' mentality at home.

To me option 1 is also better than option 2.

I see the kind of problems my cousins have staying with inlaws, parents.Even parents are not too happy with that set up.For them it may be workable....not me.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by beetle

[someone]

18 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Sure. But atleast the men within this outdated arranged-marriage system have far greater power, because they earn all the money. 

As i said, i am yet to find an arranged marriage where the man hasn't used the 'my money, my rules' argument atleast once. This makes it inferior in my eyes as there can be no true equality without financial independence of both parties.

 

I didnt say women are inferior and docile. I said that is what men who get into arranged marriage look for and the women who are not inferior,docile and oppressed end up either having a very unhappy marriage or set on fire by the inlaws. 

What is needed, is for indian women to join the workforce and for indian men to share the household chores 50-50. 

You have no real argument other that "I haven't seem something, so it doesn't exist". Using words like outdated, inferior, docile, oppressed to describe housewife, is plain dumb from you. On arranged marriages, it has be realized that even the richest of rich does that, so it's all classes. It works well in our country, and nothing inferior about it nor superior for that matter.

 

What is needed, is for woman to have more options, and that's changing. There are housewife who have their small business. With technology, multiple things can be done, and so nobody needs your dictates on how they must live their lives, else they are oppressed.

[Muloghonto]

50 minutes ago, someone said:

You have no real argument other that "I haven't seem something, so it doesn't exist". Using words like outdated, inferior, docile, oppressed to describe housewife, is plain dumb from you. On arranged marriages, it has be realized that even the richest of rich does that, so it's all classes. It works well in our country, and nothing inferior about it nor superior for that matter.

It *is* inferior as it relies on several presuppositions to make the marriage work. There is a reason why in free societies, arranged marriages are not the norm but love marriages are. 

 

The average Indian housewife *is* oppressed, because in simple economic terms, the person who has zero income, in a non-welfare state, has zero power. So the housewife *is* inferior in power to the husband. That is objective and empiric. 

 

It has worked well for our country, just like it did in the past for the west (or does now for the Arabs) is because of poor, illiterate society, its easy to foster presupposed ideologies about marriage and then force people to stick to it. But the moment people get educated, can think on their own,have the power of choice- be it in career, life path or mate- the model of arranged marriage breaks down and is replaced by mutual consent dating-marriage, ie, love-marriage. 

 

Since India is fast developing, this is why the arranged marriage model is being abandoned by many in India and the growth of love marriage will continue.

50 minutes ago, someone said:

 

What is needed, is for woman to have more options, and that's changing. There are housewife who have their small business. With technology, multiple things can be done, and so nobody needs your dictates on how they must live their lives, else they are oppressed.

You are the one dictating here it seems, where you are hell bent on keeping the woman at home. My point is simple - both husband and wife should earn enough to support themselves and contribute to the family and both should share in ALL the household work. Whether it means the husband is stay-at-home-running-a-business  and wife goes to office 9-5 or husband goes to office 9-5 and wife stays at home running a business, is irrelevant. 

 

Right now, i am a freelance coder with several ongoing contracts- i can work from home, i can work from a beach in Aruba so long as i have internet. Whereas my wife is in management for a multinational firm. So for the past couple of years, its me who is staying at home and doing some of the housework. But this doesn't mean that on some of the days of the week, my wife just comes home, relaxes with a beer and lets me do the running around. When its her turn to cook and clean, she does it. 
And in a couple of years when i get bored of freelancing and get myself an office gig, we will both end up doing pretty much the same stuff on different days (when its my turn or hers). 

 

Sad reality is Indian men simply do not have the work ethic to be as efficient as Europeans or North Americans in running their home and its the Indian men who need to grow the hell up and be more than 'paying guests' at home. 

 

You see this attitude run amok here, where people will make fun of me for doing laundry when its my turn to do so. This is the main thing that needs to change amongst Indian men.

Its not your wife's job to cook, clean and take care of the kids. Its BOTH PARENTS job to do so. High time Indian men started acting that way.

[PBN]

It's all about perception.  Still, India has a long way to go in many aspects especially gender equality and women safety.  Even many posters here and Indians repeatedly call Delhi the rape capital of the world so why blame outsiders.

[nikred]

 

 

 

You are the one dictating here it seems, where you are hell bent on keeping the woman at home. My point is simple - both husband and wife should earn enough to support themselves and contribute to the family and both should share in ALL the household work. Whether it means the husband is stay-at-home-running-a-business  and wife goes to office 9-5 or husband goes to office 9-5 and wife stays at home running a business, is irrelevant. 

 

Right now, i am a freelance coder with several ongoing contracts- i can work from home, i can work from a beach in Aruba so long as i have internet. Whereas my wife is in management for a multinational firm. So for the past couple of years, its me who is staying at home and doing some of the housework. But this doesn't mean that on some of the days of the week, my wife just comes home, relaxes with a beer and lets me do the running around. When its her turn to cook and clean, she does it. 

And in a couple of years when i get bored of freelancing and get myself an office gig, we will both end up doing pretty much the same stuff on different days (when its my turn or hers). 

 

Sad reality is Indian men simply do not have the work ethic to be as efficient as Europeans or North Americans in running their home and its the Indian men who need to grow the hell up and be more than 'paying guests' at home. 

 

You see this attitude run amok here, where people will make fun of me for doing laundry when its my turn to do so. This is the main thing that needs to change amongst Indian men.

 

Its not your wife's job to cook, clean and take care of the kids. Its BOTH PARENTS job to do so. High time Indian men started acting that way.

 

Why are you assuming a woman in an arranged marriage will be a housewife? I honestly don't see any correlation here. Just because a couple had love marriage does not mean that they will stay away from traditional roles either.

 

Also you seem to take great pride in doing household work as a husband but I don't see what's the big deal. It is not as uncommon as you make it sound. My wife does wfh a lot so she gets to do more housework but there was time when she used to do night shifts and I used to cook. I wash clothes too but I don't stand on the washing machine and pose as a proud progressive modern superman either. I have seen many of my relatives, including my dad, and friends do it too. Honestly, it's practical too with increasing nuclear families in India.

 

I know there are many Indian men who would not entertain such a thought but you make it sound like it's an alien concept to Indians.

 

End of the day, it's up to the couple how they want to define their relationship. If both are happy together, I am a nobody to piss over the dynamics of their relationship and say they are wrong.

 

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[someone]

21 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

It *is* inferior as it relies on several presuppositions to make the marriage work. There is a reason why in free societies, arranged marriages are not the norm but love marriages are. 

 

The average Indian housewife *is* oppressed, because in simple economic terms, the person who has zero income, in a non-welfare state, has zero power. So the housewife *is* inferior in power to the husband. That is objective and empiric. 

 

It has worked well for our country, just like it did in the past for the west (or does now for the Arabs) is because of poor, illiterate society, its easy to foster presupposed ideologies about marriage and then force people to stick to it. But the moment people get educated, can think on their own,have the power of choice- be it in career, life path or mate- the model of arranged marriage breaks down and is replaced by mutual consent dating-marriage, ie, love-marriage. 

 

Since India is fast developing, this is why the arranged marriage model is being abandoned by many in India and the growth of love marriage will continue.

Disagree, disagree. You keep insulting the millions of women by calling them oppressed as housewife. Next, arranged marriages aren't just for the poor, illiterate as you keep saying. There are loads of educated, rich people doing that.  It's not a crime to be a housewife, Arrange marriages , housewifes are here to stay, and there is nothing inferior about it. You call your opinion as superior while making everything else as inferior just doesn't cut in reality.

[someone]

3 hours ago, nikred said:

Why are you assuming a woman in an arranged marriage will be a housewife? I honestly don't see any correlation here. Just because a couple had love marriage does not mean that they will stay away from traditional roles either.

Also you seem to take great pride in doing household work as a husband but I don't see what's the big deal. It is not as uncommon as you make it sound. My wife does wfh a lot so she gets to do more housework but there was time when she used to do night shifts and I used to cook. I wash clothes too but I don't stand on the washing machine and pose as a proud progressive modern superman either. I have seen many of my relatives, including my dad, and friends do it too. Honestly, it's practical too with increasing nuclear families in India .I know there are many Indian men who would not entertain such a thought but you make it sound like it's an alien concept to Indians.

 

End of the day, it's up to the couple how they want to define their relationship. If both are happy together, I am a nobody to piss over the dynamics of their relationship and say they are wrong.

Exactly.  Case closed.

[coffee_rules]

For people living in far off fantasia, India is full of arranged marriages with housewives taking care of kids and elders, while men are sitting on their asses and doing 9-to-5vers! The only solution is to opt for love marriages, throw in-laws out to old age homes and for men to wash clothes and cook food on YT recipes! Arranged marriages where people are looking for career woman is a norm now. Multiple income in middle-class is needed to combat poverty, inflation and rising costs. If it only women doing both working out and in the homes. there will be serious issues in all homes. People maintain equilibrium somehow or end up in divorces as well. Men cannot sit on their behinds nowadays!

[PBN]

If you're living in the west living with just wife and kids, and working from home, then it is quite normal to be helping around the house i.e taking kids to school, running errands, and doing housework. In many cases, if you're working from home, then it even becomes necessary to do a lot of the chores i.e babysitting, cleaning, cooking, etc.  It's a lot easier once you're kids a bit grown up around 6+.   People here doing laundry make it out as if they're washing clothes with their hands.  90% of the work is done by the washing machine and even for drying toss them in.  Living alone with just wife and kids without parents/in-laws makes it a lot easier and your roles a lot clearer.  Otherwise, it can complicate things a bit especially mothers tend to pamper their sons by running behind them lol.

 

edit: there's even rice makers for noobs, and even roti makers. tons of gadgets to make cooking a lot easier

Edited July 13, 2018 by PBN

[PBN]

Back to topic, in India men,guys have this horrible habit of gawking at girls.  It's terrible....like you haven't seen a female before.

[coffee_rules]

33 minutes ago, PBN said:

Back to topic, in India men,guys have this horrible habit of gawking at girls.  It's terrible....like you haven't seen a female before.

Not limited to India men. I have spotted  gawkers in Paris (French), Rome (Italians), Mexico. Don't be a IndoPhobe!

[Singh bling]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

For people living in far off fantasia, India is full of arranged marriages with housewives taking care of kids and elders, while men are sitting on their asses and doing 9-to-5vers! The only solution is to opt for love marriages, throw in-laws out to old age homes and for men to wash clothes and cook food on YT recipes! Arranged marriages where people are looking for career woman is a norm now. Multiple income in middle-class is needed to combat poverty, inflation and rising costs. If it only women doing both working out and in the homes. there will be serious issues in all homes. People maintain equilibrium somehow or end up in divorces as well. Men cannot sit on their behinds nowadays!

Throw in laws out , Most parents in big cities own some property , its time to move out , in other words say good bye to posh home and rent some house in poor locality.

 

Later on your parents may donate the property instead of giving to children , at that don't cry

[Singh bling]

On 7/12/2018 at 8:59 PM, Muloghonto said:

Sad reality is Indian men simply do not have the work ethic to be as efficient as Europeans or North Americans in running their home and its the Indian men who need to grow the hell up and be more than 'paying guests' at home. 

You have no idea how much Indian men work , Unlike west most are in self employment or unorganised sector jobs.If you are running restaurent or big shop .you have to work 10 -12 hours 7 days a week .you have no time to contribute for household chores.

 

Human lifes are dictated by their economic conditions and not dictated by fantasies of people living in full of resources extremely developed nations.

[Singh bling]

On 7/7/2018 at 12:18 PM, Hydra said:

Sorry but that's just an excuse, I understand India has a large population but you can't hide forever under that excuse.

Why your country is so poor? It is not even in top 10 biggest economies , Look at China at 2nd and India at 6th

[coffee_rules]

Love marriage se yaad aaya. I think the west just discovered arranged marriage

 

 

[beetle]

10 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

throw in-laws out to old age homes 

Whose in laws ? The guys or the girls?

Because the guy's in laws are rarely ( very rarely)taken care of by the couple anyways.

 

 

[beetle]

6 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Love marriage se yaad aaya. I think the west just discovered arranged marriage

 

 

Reality tv....