Ind polled as the most dangerous country for women

[Vilander]

21 minutes ago, Hydra said:

Italian Banker raped by tour guide in Mumbai

 

https://www.ndtv.com/mumbai-news/italian-banker-allegedly-raped-by-tour-guide-in-a-car-in-mumbai-1876119?pfrom=home-topscroll

 

But India is safe for women lol.

 

 

Have a handle on context. In Syria a whole community of women were made into sex slaves millions of them  is that country safer than India lol. No one here is claiming India does not have a problem but your agenda here Is very visible so no thanks for your fake concern. 

[Mariyam]

On 6/28/2018 at 4:38 PM, someone said:

There are so many issues with this report. Firstly, they don't take the population of the country in aspect to the crimes. That's a fundamental statistical failure. Then, from a political point of view, why is that this woman's safety only matters when BJP is in power? Are they saying that it was better in past? Then, traditional BJP strongholds like Gujarat are one of the better places for women whereas traditional secular government places like UP, Haryana have the biggest issues. Yet, there has been progress and much improvement, take Haryana for example, the sex ratio has increased.  This safety issue is a big and old issue and we need work together to fix it.

 

And India needs to work on the perception battle, many big countries have their own people in western propaganda whereas we have people with Indian ethnicity yet hate this country as our representative worldwide. It's a big issue.

 

I do not understand why you need to make this into a BJP vs a Congress issue?

 

And what makes you claim that women's safety mattered only when the BJP is in power?

When the spontaneous and media outrage re: the Nirbhaya case happened, the Congress was in power. Both in the state and the centre. The Congress party got a lot of bad press for it. And rightly so. And the opposition did gain from the tragedy.

 

Also, comparing Gujarat to Haryana/ UP to show the party that you support in good light is being very disingenuous.  An apt comparison would be Gujarat under the BJP vs Gujarat under the Congress. Same thing for Haryana. That can show you change, if any.

 

Bottom line is that India is unsafe for women. Obviously it isn't the most unsafe nation, but the focus isn't the ranking but to make our ( and foreign) women feel secure. The best way to win the perception battle is to make the nation a safer place. 

 

 

[someone]

41 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

I do not understand why you need to make this into a BJP vs a Congress issue?And what makes you claim that women's safety mattered only when the BJP is in power?

Also, comparing Gujarat to Haryana/ UP to show the party that you support in good light is being very disingenuous.  An apt comparison would be Gujarat under the BJP vs Gujarat under the Congress. Same thing for Haryana. That can show you change, if any.

I aren't the one making it a political issue. I am just answering those who think that BJP started this problem. It's a existing problem and we need to work all together to fix it. On comparison , I have already mentioned like Haryana is better sex ratio under new government than old government. So the Beti Bachao, Beti Padhao has had some success.

 

Bottom line is that India is unsafe for women. Obviously it isn't the most unsafe nation, but the focus isn't the ranking but to make our ( and foreign) women feel secure. The best way to win the perception battle is to make the nation a safer place.

 

We aren't the most unsafe nation, and that has to be dispelled vigorously. Next, just like India is a poor place, India is unsafe for women maybe correct. But we don't get anything if we take this image of our country to the world. We must defeat this mindset, and perception. Also,  there are many Western countries with higher crime rates against women, so we have to the the population into consideration.

 

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

Mama will still make food just that papa will do too. I know your intentions are good and at personal level.  But traditions are most quoted in misogynistic practices.

You're not looking at the bigger picture, I have seen the African American community from a close view and I even have a good African American friend, I have seen what damage has feminism done to that community with single mother culture.

 

Aise misogynistic word ratta maar ke aur bolne se problems solve nahin hoga. Sacrifice your tradition and then suffer the karma forever.

Edited July 2, 2018 by MechEng

[rageaddict]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

Mama will still make food just that papa will do too. I know your intentions are good and at personal level.  But traditions are most quoted in misogynistic practices.

Sure as long as Mama generates  income equivalent to Papa and isnt some sit at house freeloader housewife .

[beetle]

2 hours ago, rageaddict said:

Sure as long as Mama generates  income equivalent to Papa and isnt some sit at house freeloader housewife .

All our moms and grandmoms were freeloaders I guess.

[beetle]

3 hours ago, MechEng said:

You're not looking at the bigger picture, I have seen the African American community from a close view and I even have a good African American friend, I have seen what damage has feminism done to that community with single mother culture.

 

Aise misogynistic word ratta maar ke aur bolne se problems solve nahin hoga. Sacrifice your tradition and then suffer the karma forever.

You can't apply the african american situation everywhere.

 

Besides it is very simple.

Educated working women are not going to settle for doing it all .They are only human .If they get a paycheck and share the financial responsibilty with the man, then the man will have to help out at home.

 

If guys want status quo...they can always marry less educated girls who do not want to do it all.

 

Problem is with guys who want it all.

A highly educated working woman to share the financial pressure and then they expect her to take care of home like their mother without complaining.

 Such guys are going to be disillusioned with their life .

 

Most working women even now go home and cook for their family .Some are lucky enough to have option of getting someone to pay to cook.

The equality of home work is still a dream for most.

Poor women wake up at unearthly hrs to cook and pack food and family members to work and school. Deal with a full day at work and then come back home to cook the family dinner.That is one crap life.

 

 

 

 

 

[beetle]

2 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

I have seen many educated men married to gawar jobless women ,but hardly ever seen the opposite.

Guys dont look for education and salary in girls ,that's what girls search for in guys .Even when the woman is  well educated and have a good job and salary they wont marry someone who is lesser off than them because of their freeloading tendencies.They want it as an insurance for their future .

 

Women have kids. They nurse kids. They are usually the primary caretakers of the kids. 

They often have to take a break for this .

They look for a stable partner who will be able to help in raising the family.

 

As women get higher paying jobs and become primary bread earner, they will prefer to settle for a lesser earning partner who is willing to be primary caretaker.

 

As more and more men start taking part in caregiving and taking care of home, women will trust their partners more with raising kids and will be more willing to be primary bread winner.

 

One person cannot do both roles of being primary bread winner and primary caretaker.

 

I have seen many educated men married to gawar jobless women ,but hardly ever seen the opposite.

 

The guys who have home makers as wives have certain advantages too.They usually don't have to worry about home and kids and can devote more time to their jobs.

 

Guys dont look for education and salary in girls

You have to be kidding when saying guys and their families don't look for working women. These days it is almost impossible for girls to get a good match if she is not working with a good paycheck....specially in middle and upper middle class families.

 

 

.Even when the woman is  well educated and have a good job and salary they wont marry someone who is lesser off than them because of their freeloading tendencies.

 

I have seen quite a few women ( even in my family...younger cousins) where the girl is in a better paying or more stable job. Unfortunately it has not translated to their husband helping out more  at home.

 

What exactly is freeloading?

Do you feel doing house work and taking care of home and family is free loading ?

My mom , my grand mothers have never worked outside home. Were they freeloading.

 

In my opinion freeloading is ...expecting the wife to take care of home, family, bring home a decent pay check , bear children , nurse them , take care of them, take care of the husbands parents in old age . 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by beetle

[Vilander]

On 7/2/2018 at 2:09 AM, MechEng said:

You're not looking at the bigger picture, I have seen the African American community from a close view and I even have a good African American friend, I have seen what damage has feminism done to that community with single mother culture.

 

Aise misogynistic word ratta maar ke aur bolne se problems solve nahin hoga. Sacrifice your tradition and then suffer the karma forever.

There is no wrong in traditional Indian family system with mom being housewife and dad making money, but this tradition should not be the reason to prevent a woman from having an independent life. That is where the line is. 

[beetle]

@Peshust bhai ...kabhi post bhi kiya karo . Bas troll button dabane ke liye join kiya hai kya ?

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

There is no wrong in traditional Indian family system with mom being housewife and dad making money, but this tradition should not be the reason to prevent a woman from having an independent life. That is where the line is. 

In West too traditional role of woman is still in the house, but West is flexible and even roles are changed according to the situation. 

If wife is earning good, then she is going to work while husband is taking care of the babies and kids and household. 

 

So, nothing is considered bad socially and people are free to take best decisions according to their situations. 

[beetle]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

There is no wrong in traditional Indian family system with mom being housewife and dad making money, but this tradition should not be the reason to prevent a woman from having an independent life. That is where the line is. 

This.

Ours is a traditional Indian household right now.

I take care of home and family completely.

Husband gets the bread home .

No one should have to do it all.

If both work outside home, then both should help each other at home.

 

 

[MechEng]

6 hours ago, Vilander said:

There is no wrong in traditional Indian family system with mom being housewife and dad making money, but this tradition should not be the reason to prevent a woman from having an independent life. That is where the line is. 

Yes, but where did I deny that people should be allowed independence? 

Edited July 4, 2018 by MechEng

[someone]

On 6/29/2018 at 4:14 PM, MechEng said:

I'm a traditionalist at heart. What I fear the most is that if society completely loses it's traditional values, then the things we enjoy today or take for granted will be luxuries in future. Maa ke haath ka khana will be restricted to history books.

Yes, west are having their own major problems, and conflicts.  Many are questioning the marriage institution itself. So feminism is fine, but it should not be just following the western ideas. Many Asian countries including India have such traditional values and it's the right thing.

[Muloghonto]

People here are confusing lack of rights with safety. 

Take Saudi vs India - ofcourse women have far less rights in Saudi than in India. However, safety is about unexpected violence - women are far less likely to be randomly raped and dumped in a nullah in Saudi Arabia than in India. A country can have far more rights than another, but be less safe than its counterpart at the same time. 

 

[Muloghonto]

On 7/4/2018 at 8:47 AM, beetle said:

This.

Ours is a traditional Indian household right now.

I take care of home and family completely.

Husband gets the bread home .

No one should have to do it all.

If both work outside home, then both should help each other at home.

 

 

I prefer the model where we both work and we both do household stuff. It keeps the dynamics even. The big problem with Indian system is, too often (in majority of the cases), I've seen the husband turn into a domineering control freak, using the 'my money, my rules, b!tch' mentality and too often the housewife falls prey to the khusur-phusur of personal dirt on everyone in the family/neighborhood, living the 'idle mind is a devil's workshop' axiom. 

I have also noticed that women who work are far more confident in themselves than women who don't (its not a woman thing btw, its a human thing- obviously being independent financially leads a positive feedback system in the mind to higher self esteem) and are easier going. 

However, in the 'working family' model in India, India is at the toxic '1980s western world' stage, where I have also rarely seen a working Indian household that treats the wife as a normal human being, instead of Wonder-woman. Many 'progressive Indian couples' who come to the west, i've seen has the guy still thinking along patriarchial lines of 'mans work vs womans work' and refuse to do household chores beyond the bare minimum. 

 

So the wife now is in charge of making lunches and sending kids to school, then go to work, then come home and cook, clean and put children to bed. Because 'its wife's duty to cook, wife's duty to clean, wife's duty to deal with children' mentality amongst us Indian guys. 

 

So the woman doesn't get to rest from 6am till 9pm and then the guy goes 'aah ! finally, she is all done, lets have sex, coz now its ME time for the wife'....and then wonders why the wife is giving him the cold shoulder or has 'a headache'. 

 

People have to remember, marriage is a partnership of two human beings. The prime objective is to love each other and loving each other means helping each other over anything one can be helpful over. 

 

But Indian guys don't have this mentality, even the most liberal ones i've encountered. They see the whole cooking, putting the baby to sleep, changing diapers as all 'demeaning for men'. 

Notice how months or maybe over a year ago i made a funny remark about how bloody hard it is for me to fold my wife's laundry when its my turn to do laundry and even now, plenty of the guys here end conversation with a 'go fold your wife's laundry' type chauvinistic comments. 

 

For Indian family to survive in the modern world without having western levels of divorce, its critical for the woman to realize that holding a job is a good thing for the marriage (not financially but emotionally) and for the man to realize that splitting chores 50-50 is good for the marriage.

 

[Muloghonto]

On 6/29/2018 at 1:14 AM, MechEng said:

I'm a traditionalist at heart. What I fear the most is that if society completely loses it's traditional values, then the things we enjoy today or take for granted will be luxuries in future. Maa ke haath ka khana will be restricted to history books.

Traditions 'asmaan se tapak ke nahi ayi'...traditions are invented....Social systems are ultimately driven by necessities and technologies at hand, nothing more. In the last 500 years, the rate of evolution of technology has been greater than the previous 100,000 years put together. Hence 'traditions' cannot keep pace with rate of technological evolution and are dying out. 

Our traditions all stem from farming culture. Go tell a nomadic culture like the Mongols that women cannot hunt or ride a horse and should stay inside their tents only, they will laugh at you as a moron. Because their traditions are not due to farming culture's evolution.

 

Traditions are there to serve a purpose - to lubricate the social system that has arisen. But once technology makes a certain social system redundant, its time to chuck that tradition in the dustbin- just like our ancestors chucked the traditions of hunter-gatherer ancestors of theirs in the dustbin when they adopted farming, so too should we as we are leaving that world behind.

 

[Alam_dar]

8 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Traditions 'asmaan se tapak ke nahi ayi'...traditions are invented....Social systems are ultimately driven by necessities and technologies at hand, nothing more. In the last 500 years, the rate of evolution of technology has been greater than the previous 100,000 years put together. Hence 'traditions' cannot keep pace with rate of technological evolution and are dying out. 

Our traditions all stem from farming culture. Go tell a nomadic culture like the Mongols that women cannot hunt or ride a horse and should stay inside their tents only, they will laugh at you as a moron. Because their traditions are not due to farming culture's evolution.

 

Traditions are there to serve a purpose - to lubricate the social system that has arisen. But once technology makes a certain social system redundant, its time to chuck that tradition in the dustbin- just like our ancestors chucked the traditions of hunter-gatherer ancestors of theirs in the dustbin when they adopted farming, so too should we as we are leaving that world behind.

 

Totally agree. 

[Vilander]

On 7/4/2018 at 2:23 PM, MechEng said:

Yes, but where did I deny that people should be allowed independence? 

"I'm a traditionalist at heart. What I fear the most is that if society completely loses it's traditional values, then the things we enjoy today or take for granted will be luxuries in future. Maa ke haath ka khana will be restricted to history books."

 

I was referring to this post of yours.  How would a mom stop cooking comfort food because she has a job may be she would but then may be the dad would do that role? that is improbable that both won't in an otherwise normal family right as an extension the underlying principle is that traditions should not be basis for limiting a woman's freedom.  Meaning there might be more instances of papa ke haath ka khana as a result but so be it. 

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Traditions 'asmaan se tapak ke nahi ayi'...traditions are invented....Social systems are ultimately driven by necessities and technologies at hand, nothing more. In the last 500 years, the rate of evolution of technology has been greater than the previous 100,000 years put together. Hence 'traditions' cannot keep pace with rate of technological evolution and are dying out. 

Our traditions all stem from farming culture. Go tell a nomadic culture like the Mongols that women cannot hunt or ride a horse and should stay inside their tents only, they will laugh at you as a moron. Because their traditions are not due to farming culture's evolution.

 

Traditions are there to serve a purpose - to lubricate the social system that has arisen. But once technology makes a certain social system redundant, its time to chuck that tradition in the dustbin- just like our ancestors chucked the traditions of hunter-gatherer ancestors of theirs in the dustbin when they adopted farming, so too should we as we are leaving that world behind.

 

Agree in principle. At cost of over simplification women evolved as stay at camp linguist  gatherers and men as often traveling in groups hunters with better spatial sense, right from Stone age. This has influence in many relative strengths and weaknesses of both the genders when every other factor is constant.