Why is nobody talking about our super **** new ball bowlers?

[rtmohanlal]

2 hours ago, kosingh said:

Yeah that's the order of culprits in the loss. The order of culprits in the shaming, though, would be led by Dhoni. 

 would agree with that. For some reasons may be as part of some team agenda(which he only knows), Dhoni played that way. But to blame Dhoni alone can never be justified.

[rtmohanlal]

2 hours ago, nikred said:

Agreed. Dhawan had no interest at all in trying to win the match. 120 SR what was he thinking?

Dhoni's approach was right. He made sure India had good net run rate which will be useful in the later part of the tournament despite the loss.

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whether Dhawan tried or not, he is to blame because he got 'OUT' too early .That's the thing.Simple.Neither am i supporting Dhoni's approach.

Edited July 15, 2018 by rtmohanlal

[UrmiSinhaRay]

well said .Dhoni still is very much a deserving candidate in the eleven , if used efficiently.

I agree with you..
More than bad game, he is being booed because of Pant fanboys .
And you know, this targeted attack by netizens especially because they want some other player is unfair.
It will only result in targeting of Pant in the game of internal politics.
Dhoni and Kohli know their game well.
Both of them are in cahoots with each other

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[ThePhenomenal1]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

Our choice of pacers in ODIs is definitely a cause for concern. Not just these 2 but also our original choices as a pace bowling group  ( not individually ).

 

This is happening partially due to the fact that we are choosing our ODI teams based on performances in the IPL  which is played in T20 format. There is little recognition of the specific requirements of ODIs, be it pacers or batsmen.

 

1)  We lack a true wicket-taker in the first 10 overs.  Bumrah is a top quality ODI bowler overall and Bhuvi adds good value in the death overs.  But where is the upfront wicket-taker  with Shami not being considered at all for ODIs these days ?

 

2)  Kaul is a decent T20 bowler.   T20 pace bowling is largely about variations. But ODIs need some classical good length, deck hitting pace bowling too in the first 40 overs or so. We cannot pick all our ODI pace bowlers based on T20 performances.

 

What does Kaul being to the table in the first 40 overs of ODIs  !  Short medium pacer without any great skills.  And we are picking them in ODIs based on the IPL.

 

3)  Umesh lacks accuracy and death bowling skills.  What he may bring to the table in ODIs is upfront wicket-taking ability ... that too if he bowls at his normal high pace.  Someone has instructed him to bowl slowly.  That means, the only good thing he had going for him is gone too. This seems bizarre to me.

 

In major tournaments, he can work only as a 3rd pacer as he can't be depended upon to bowl at the end.

 

4)  Shardul Thakur does not look like a top ODI bowling candidate either.

 

 

 

So .....  where are the effective backups if Bumrah and Bhuvi are not available in important ODI tournaments ...  and where is a true upfront wicket-taker  ?

I remember Shami taking 3 wickets in a warmup game for CT17 and then getting no games despite being our best odi bowler. Then brought back for one game where he was expensive and then dropped!

 

my lineup would be shami and yadav opening the bowling. Bumrah/bhuvi as first change and end overs (both not needed in same xi in odis as bhuvi lacks wicket taking ability in odis)

 

but who are our backups? 

[ThePhenomenal1]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Dhoni is at a stage where one good innings will get him more accolades then he deserves and every poor inning will only demand retirement . Has happened to tendulkar will happen to kohli also 

More then them ill blame team mngmt who never thought of giving bhuvi bumrah much of rest in between n preparing backups. Last yr only in Ind-Aus series they gave one game to shami n umesh n they went for runs and bhuvi n bumrah were called back . Atleast give others a proper chance to prove they are good or bad

Crazy how management dropped our 2 highest wicket takers in the 2015 world cup. Both shami and umesh finished in the top 4 i believe. Management dropped 2 pacers who could should be opening the bowling together.

[Lala]

Problem is with India is India does not have consistent pace bowling squad as their batsmen. One bowler who are in this tour will miss next tour due to injuries or bad performances. India seriously need to hire better fast bowling coach. 

[nikred]

whether Dhawan tried or not, he is to blame because he got 'OUT' too early .That's the thing.Simple.Neither am i supporting Dhoni's approach.

Sometimes you get out sometimes you go on to win the game. It's part and parcel of the game. Yes, Dhawan is wrong that he couldn't take India close to finish line. But Dhoni is wrong as he did not even bother to take India close to finish line.

I can digest Dhawan's wrong but I can't digest Dhoni's wrong.

Saying 130 of 60 is impossible so I will just block the balls is completely unacceptable.

What is the point of having the middle order when it does not show up when required? You can't always expect the top order to win you games.



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[R!TTER]

Just now, Lala said:

Problem is with India is India does not have consistent pace bowling squad as their batsmen. One bowler who are in this tour will miss next tour due to injuries or bad performances. India seriously need to hire better fast bowling coach. 

Our pacers are usually consistent in tournaments - CT 2002, WC 2003, first WT20, WC 2011, CT 2013, WC 2015 etc. The captain (Kohli) though suffers form ADD & ADHD, otherwise how can anyone explain 38(?) different test combinations & dropping our key WC 2015 pacers after every game where they get punished? Seems to me that he's gone the Dhoni way really early, keeping the run flow in check with trundlers or spinners, and doesn't want to back them with the extra pace! Dhoni still has an iron grip on this team & the management, I'm not sure why cheku is pretending to be the captain?

Edited July 16, 2018 by R!TTER

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

well said .Dhoni still is very much a deserving candidate in the eleven , if used efficiently.

Dhoni has no place in this side. He can be a mentor from the dressing room to Kohli and not on the field.  

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

the main culprits in yesterday's loss  was  mainly seam bowlers, then Dhawan,Rahul,Raina & then Pandya in that order.And here some experts are blaiming Dhoni.

yeah everyone was culprit except Dhoni and Kohli.  How were Dhawan and Rahul culprit though? Dhawan was the only batsman who played to win. Rahul only stayed 2 balls so cannot blame him.  We lost because batsman who stayed for longer played slow and did not show any intent of scoring runs, namely, Kohli, Raina and Dhoni. I blame these three, not just Dhoni. These three combined scored 5 boundaries in 178 balls, scored 128 runs.  its 5 boundaries in 30 overs, FFS.  it does not happen even in test cricket and this was the ODI game chasing 323 on a flattish tack against an average bowling attack.  Others 11 in 122 balls. You cant chase 323 without taking calculated risk and hitting boundaries that too on a small ground. Kohli also was again exposed by England pacers' outside off stump line. They wont be bowling anything towards Kohli from now on.

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

While searching for new and / or backup ODI pacers,  what do we need  ?   

 

Ideally,  we need a couple of pacers who

--  Have potential to take wickets upfront.

--  Have the basic tools to be a good death bowler.

-- Can bowl accurate, good length, deck hitting, off-stump to channel deliveries with regularity.

-- Have sufficient pace.

-- Since most of our pacers are short to medium height ...  it would be nice to get pacers who are tall and get bounce.

-- Ability to swing the ball is really welcome.

 

 

We need to try 3 or 4 pacers who tick most of these boxes.  (  Our current backup pacers don't  )

 

****  All the pacers we try won't succeed.  This is natural.

 

Who are the potential candidates who tick most of these boxes  ?

 

1)  Ankit Rajpoot

2)  Khaleel Ahmed.

3)  Prasidh Krishna.

 

Try them in ODIs with 1 year to go before the World Cup.   Even if one of them come good,  we will have a better WC bowling attack.

 

 

 

 

 

the most effective bowlers in ODIs have always been hit the deck bowler who can hit the seam hard on off stump or fourth stump line without giving batsmen an angle to work with and could deviate the ball of the seam from good or short of good length.  Such bowlers can extract minute seam movement of the pitch. 

[Suhaan]

Pity the bowlers they have been well informed about the state of those epic (,national treasure)fingers,have been warned not to hurt those fingers ,those are needed to ward off Extra terrestrial threats,fingers in danger means the planet is in danger simple,how he's gonna wear the Gauntlet After all...The Thala

[kira]

13 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Dhoni is at a stage where one good innings will get him more accolades then he deserves and every poor inning will only demand retirement . Has happened to tendulkar will happen to kohli also 

More then them ill blame team mngmt who never thought of giving bhuvi bumrah much of rest in between n preparing backups. Last yr only in Ind-Aus series they gave one game to shami n umesh n they went for runs and bhuvi n bumrah were called back . Atleast give others a proper chance to prove they are good or bad

Aur be sharmu bada uchal rha tha tu dhoni ki ipl form ko leke, bade tag mar rha tha mujhe, kya bola tha maine let the internationals start and this phateechar dhoni's true aukaat will be revealed, yaad hai meri post, saale ghanta knowledge nahi tujhe cricket ki, ipl form ko le kar kaun uchalta hai 

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 minutes ago, kira said:

Aur be sharmu bada uchal rha tha tu dhoni ki ipl form ko leke, bade tag mar rha tha mujhe, kya bola tha maine let the internationals start and this phateechar dhoni's true aukaat will be revealed, yaad hai meri post, saale ghanta knowledge nahi tujhe cricket ki, ipl form ko le kar kaun uchalta hai 

nothing wrong with the form he was hittiing well in 2nd t20 , jab intent nhin hogi form ka kya kroge

Intent na kal dhoni ka tha na adhi se zyaada team ka

[Jimmy Cliff]

51 minutes ago, kira said:

Aur be sharmu bada uchal rha tha tu dhoni ki ipl form ko leke, bade tag mar rha tha mujhe, kya bola tha maine let the internationals start and this phateechar dhoni's true aukaat will be revealed, yaad hai meri post, saale ghanta knowledge nahi tujhe cricket ki, ipl form ko le kar kaun uchalta hai 

Welcome back .

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

the most effective bowlers in ODIs have always been hit the deck bowler who can hit the seam hard on off stump or fourth stump line without giving batsmen an angle to work with and could deviate the ball of the seam from good or short of good length.  Such bowlers can extract minute seam movement of the pitch. 

 

To get an effective team or bowling unit ...  the requirements of that particular format must be clear in the mind.   This is happening in test matches and spin department in LOIs ...  but not in the other departments of ODIs and T20Is. 

 

Picking short trundlers with average skill levels ...  or pacers who can't pick wickets upfront ...  or pacers who can't bowl at the death ...  how will it work in ODIs  ? 

 

Tall, deck hitting, accurate pacers who get seam movement and have death bowling skills ...  this type has always worked in ODIs  (  along with a couple of other types )  ...  but we don't want to find such a bowler.

Edited July 16, 2018 by express bowling

[rtmohanlal]

15 hours ago, UrmiSinhaRay said:

I agree with you..
More than bad game, he is being booed because of Pant fanboys .
And you know, this targeted attack by netizens especially because they want some other player is unfair.
It will only result in targeting of Pant in the game of internal politics.
Dhoni and Kohli know their game well.
Both of them are in cahoots with each other

Sent from my CPH1609 using Tapatalk
 

the calls to replace a proven certified great  with a rookie youngster with the world cup only with in 1 year reach is delusional to say the least.The need of the hour is  not to discard such a vastly experienced and great  player, but to find a way to use the slightly diminished (in one of his 3 disciplines only)prowess of this   3 dimensional (captaincy,wkt keeping & batting) player in the most effective way for the team.

[rtmohanlal]

6 hours ago, nikred said:

Sometimes you get out sometimes you go on to win the game. It's part and parcel of the game. Yes, Dhawan is wrong that he couldn't take India close to finish line. But Dhoni is wrong as he did not even bother to take India close to finish line.

I can digest Dhawan's wrong but I can't digest Dhoni's wrong.

Saying 130 of 60 is impossible so I will just block the balls is completely unacceptable.

What is the point of having the middle order when it does not show up when required? You can't always expect the top order to win you games.



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I agree that Dhoni's approach was not at all  the required one for that particular match. But having said that who knows as to  based on what team agenda did Dhoni play that way??? Keep in mind Kohli himself stated he would be trying a lot of experiments before the world cup.So why can't it be a part of this long time  experiment??????

[rtmohanlal]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

yeah everyone was culprit except Dhoni and Kohli.  How were Dhawan and Rahul culprit though? Dhawan was the only batsman who played to win. Rahul only stayed 2 balls so cannot blame him.  We lost because batsman who stayed for longer played slow and did not show any intent of scoring runs, namely, Kohli, Raina and Dhoni. I blame these three, not just Dhoni. These three combined scored 5 boundaries in 178 balls, scored 128 runs.  its 5 boundaries in 30 overs, FFS.  it does not happen even in test cricket and this was the ODI game chasing 323 on a flattish tack against an average bowling attack.  Others 11 in 122 balls. You cant chase 323 without taking calculated risk and hitting boundaries that too on a small ground. Kohli also was again exposed by England pacers' outside off stump line. They wont be bowling anything towards Kohli from now on.

i don't spare Dhoni either while blaming.Dhawan and Rahul are culprits because they are supposed to score runs  and not to get OUT so early in a mammoth chase, simple.Don't blame Rohit and Kohli much because they played  their part in the first game courtesy law of averages.Every body can't perform in every match.isn't it????Others are all to blame for their incompetencies.

[nikred]

I agree that Dhoni's approach was not at all  the required one for that particular match. But having said that who knows as to  based on what team agenda did Dhoni play that way??? Keep in mind Kohli himself stated he would be trying a lot of experiments before the world cup.So why can't it be a part of this long time  experiment??????

What experiment was that? To test the English players threshold for handling boredom?

Do whatever experiment you want. Open the batting with Chahal and Kuldeep too but end of the day if you are not playing to win the match you are insulting the game, the opposition and the fans. He was rightly booed.

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