Michael Holding - Pandya is not next Kapil Dev

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

And that is where bowling coach must work with him. If I recall, Pandya's bowling was not that bad up until last year. Its detoriated a lot for some unknown reason. Someone like Agarkar/Zak can help Pandya in bowling dept.

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on the contrary his bowling has improved from SA tour, he isnt going to get wkts if he doesnt bowl much 

yes a zak or nehra wud help him a lot but he needs to bowl as well, lets not forget he gets the ball when its not in its best of conditions that where u needs a lot of skills which he cnt have right now but will develop with period of time. Important thing is he keeps playing .....

[asterix]

And that is where bowling coach must work with him. If I recall, Pandya's bowling was not that bad up until last year. Its detoriated a lot for some unknown reason. Someone like Agarkar/Zak can help Pandya in bowling dept.

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Hs ha ha... BART Arun is actually a cheerleader of the cheerleader.. he’s there only to wake Shastri up when he nods off watching the match and for drinking sessions in the evenings...

[Lannister]

9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

catch pakd lete to 120 pe out ho jate 

A fifth bowler would've made a difference here as we let some noob to add 90+ runs with tailenders. And how did Hardik bat with the tailenders? 

 

14 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

stokes is an experienced cricketer who is bowling at home, the comparison between 2 in unfair ..............at start of his career even stokes have gone through a lot of right patches and his batting is still a struggle

 

Let pandya play as much as stokes 1st to be even compared

It's not just about Stokes, even Sam Curran looked better with both bat and ball compared to Hardik. It's because Hardik is a batting all-rounder and I just don't see him developing into a proper fifth bowler like Stokes, Woakes and Curran. 

[vvvslaxman]

He hasn't reached the Irfan pathan level yet let alone Kapil dev. Irfan helped us win Pak series, he also mopped floor with minnows. ALso he helped us win Perth test.

[Austin 3:!6]

on the contrary his bowling has improved from SA tour, he isnt going to get wkts if he doesnt bowl much 
yes a zak or nehra wud help him a lot but he needs to bowl as well, lets not forget he gets the ball when its not in its best of conditions that where u needs a lot of skills which he cnt have right now but will develop with period of time. Important thing is he keeps playing .....

Not only in tests but I have seen his bowling went downhill in LOIs too. If I recall, he was a very decent bowler in last years CT compared to how he bowled in the recent ODI series.

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[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Lannister said:

A fifth bowler would've made a difference here as we let some noob to add 90+ runs with tailenders. And how did Hardik bat with the tailenders? 

Batting with tailender is an art which requires experience, it ll come with time 

 

2 minutes ago, Lannister said:

 

It's not just about Stokes, even Sam Curran looked better with both bat and ball compared to Hardik. It's because Hardik is a batting all-rounder and I just don't see him developing into a proper fifth bowler like Stokes, Woakes and Curran. 

They are playing in their own backyard ....so they have that advantage which pandya doesnt 

He is a good 5th bowler.........thoda time do . Also he needs to be given the ball 

With any young player u need pateince.....

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Not only in tests but I have seen his bowling went downhill in LOIs too. If I recall, he was a very decent bowler in last years CT compared to how he bowled in the recent ODI series.

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LOI , look at his spells in SA n did well in Eng....i think u forgot his spell in 3rd t20 where everyone was going for runs n he came n changed the match. In SA last 2-3 odi his spells were really economical 

 

Bowling in LOI is really tough specially when u dnt get the new ball so stop expecting huge consistency 

 

His bowling has improved leaps n bounces

[PBN]

Too much expectations being put on Pandya at this stage of his career. Many experts here were arguing Pandya is a frontline bowler for tests lol. At best he's a 4th pacer to relieve some pressure and chip in with a wicket here and there.  Though I agree, to improve he needs to bowl a lot more.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, Straight Drive said:

At least we agree that he has a good batting average for AR.

 

Yes, his bowling SR of 88 is a concern. But can we not afford to show some more patience and give him more tests and see if he improves the bowling SR. Perhaps he will be able to get bowling SR down to 70. And of he does that while maintaining bat AVG of 35, it would be nice for us.

 

One may say can we afford to lose more series in this R&D process. Well if the time has come to drop someone and stop doing R&D, then there are worse failures than him. 4 specialist batsmen and keepers are there. Rahul averaged 9 runs in SA. He is averaging 8 runs this series.

Vijay, Ajinkya,Shikhar all averaged under 21 last series. They have to be dropped first , if at all the time has come to drop players. At least he is one of our better cricketer in last 6 tests.

I agree everyone needs to be held accountable. That means everyone including, Vijay, Dhawan, Rahul, Rahane. No exceptions.

 

But having said that I don't want any change in batting for next test. I would take one more spinner.

 

Where I disagree with you is that in an important test like England this is not the place for beta testing. Need a finished product at this stage and for that I blame the most useless person ever Shastri.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, Lala said:

Razzak & Flintoff are real allrounders.What happend to the Irfun Pattern after that test vs Pak?  We have seen such bowlers once in a while then and there make trouble  teams. There are lucky days for such players. He was missing after that series. 

Razzak was no allrounder. Last allrounder you had was Imran and I am not so sure he can walk into Pakistan team now. Ditto for Kapil.

[Straight Drive]

2 minutes ago, Khota said:

I agree everyone needs to be held accountable. That means everyone including, Vijay, Dhawan, Rahul, Rahane. No exceptions.

 

But having said that I don't want any change in batting for next test. I would take one more spinner.

 

Where I disagree with you is that in an important test like England this is not the place for beta testing. Need a finished product at this stage and for that I blame the most useless person ever Shastri.

The players should have been dropped for this tour on basis of rubbish performances in SA.Even bowlers have better average than 9 or 21 runs in some cases. 

 

Preferential treatment ? Why. All of the batters were crap. No exceptions or bias should be allowed. 

 

 

 

[Khota]

8 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

The players should have been dropped for this tour on basis of rubbish performances in SA.Even bowlers have better average than 9 or 21 runs in some cases. 

 

Preferential treatment ? Why. All of the batters were crap. No exceptions or bias should be allowed. 

 

 

 

Couldn't have said it any better.

[Lannister]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Batting with tailender is an art which requires experience, it ll come with time 

  

They are playing in their own backyard ....so they have that advantage which pandya doesnt 

He is a good 5th bowler.........thoda time do . Also he needs to be given the ball 

With any young player u need pateince.....

The reason Kohli didn't bowl him much was because he was going at a rate of 4.5 runs per an over, which was the highest by any bowler in the match. A lack of fifth bowler made a difference for us and it's highly unlikely that he's going to pick up on how to swing and seam a ball at just a short amount of time. He needs to go back to Ranji and improve on his bowling skills. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Lannister

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, Lannister said:

The reason Kohli didn't bowl him much was because he was going at a rate of 4.5 runs per an over, which was the highest by any bowler in the match. A lack of fifth bowler made a difference for us and it's highly unlikely that he's going to pick up on how to swing and seam a ball at just a short amount of time. He needs to go back to Ranji and improve on his bowling skills. 

yet he bowlerd better then ishant n umesh in 1st innings, runs go a lot from edges 

nope it was dropped catches that made the diff

Ranji men saddi hui pitches pe bowling krke kya seekhega for some international is place for him

[Lannister]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yet he bowlerd better then ishant n umesh in 1st innings, runs go a lot from edges 

nope it was dropped catches that made the diff

Ranji men saddi hui pitches pe bowling krke kya seekhega for some international is place for him

They didn't drop catches off his bowling, did they? How many chances did he create when he bowled 10 overs, which is not in anyway a less amount. Bhuvi and Bumrah learnt how to swing and seam while playing Ranjis. 

[R!TTER]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Also btw in 2006-07 on eng n Sa tour, dravid was the captain......why didnt he take him.......where did dhoni come from

You tell me now, apparently Pathan's unravelling was just his own doing, Chappal or Dhoni and Dravid had absolutely nothing to do with it - according to you.

 

I'm talking about the tours in 2009, 2010, 2011 to NZ, SA and Eng under Dhoni. You don't even remember do you, yet you remember his 120k speeds?

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You tell me now, apparently Pathan's unravelling was just his own doing, Chappal or Dhoni and Dravid had absolutely nothing to do with it - according to you.

 

I'm talking about the tours in 2009, 2010, 2011 to NZ, SA and Eng under Dhoni. You don't even remember do you, yet you remember his 120k speeds?

 

did u check that time 

was pathan fit???? wat was his domestic perfomance ??? cud he have earned a place over other seamers ??

 

Ofcourse it was his own undoing.....his dip started even before chappel came n never stopped even after left for yrs. Ill blame a bit on chappel coz he took him for guidance every where that it no more rest he himself was poor 

 

He had a poor attitude, today i was hearing this story from journo talking about pathan attitude 

 

 

 

He  is talking about when chappel took pathan to roberts.

 

If a player doesnt do well 90% times its his own attitude.....

u cnt blame chappell, dravid, dhoni ...coz their IPL teams as well who didnt bother him about much post 2011 .......

 

Even his own captain ganguly has gone on record so many times n said pathan isnt the same player anymore so why talk about him. N if it wasnt his poor attitude...explain how did he becmae unfit most ranji season n fit for IPL

He also had issue with his state association n even IPL team

 

So everyone has issues but not him.....that sounds like umar akmal

Edited August 5, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, Lannister said:

They didn't drop catches off his bowling, did they? How many chances did he create when he bowled 10 overs, which is not in anyway a less amount. Bhuvi and Bumrah learnt how to swing and seam while playing Ranjis. 

he had a lot of edges that went for boundaries, catches were dropped due to which extra runs were scored so the bowling isnt the issue its the batting so stop looking for extra wkts coz we already are taking it

Its the runs we lack

Edited August 5, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[R!TTER]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

did u check that time 

was pathan fit???? wat was his domestic perfomance ??? cud he have earned a place over other seamers ??

 

Ofcourse it was his own undoing.....his dip started even before chappel came n never stopped even after left for yrs. Ill blame a bit on chappel coz he took him for guidance every where that it no more rest he himself was poor 

 

He had a poor attitude, today i was hearing this story from journo talking about pathan attitude 

 

 

 

He  is talking about when chappel took pathan to roberts.

 

If a player doesnt do well 90% times its his own attitude.....

u cnt blame chappell, dravid, dhoni ...coz their IPL teams as well who didnt bother him about much post 2011 .......

 

Even his own captain ganguly has gone on record so many times n said pathan isnt the same player anymore so why talk about him. N if it wasnt his poor attitude...explain how did he becmae unfit most ranji season n fit for IPL

He also had issue with his state association n even IPL team

 

So everyone has issues but not him.....that sounds like umar akmal

Did you check your own info? Pathan played the T20 in NZ 2009, no ODI or test though IIRC. As for domestic performances, what's Pandya's or Bumrah record in Ranji, as compared to someone with a history like Pathan? Pathan was also fit for 2010 SA AFAIK, don't remember for 2011 Eng.

 

So the guy is not exaggerating even one bit? I find it hard to believe Pathan swearing like that guy's claiming.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/wivind/content/story/249721.html

[Ankit_sharma03]

30 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Did you check your own info? Pathan played the T20 in NZ 2009, no ODI or test though IIRC. As for domestic performances, what's Pandya's or Bumrah record in Ranji, as compared to someone with a history like Pathan? Pathan was also fit for 2010 SA AFAIK, don't remember for 2011 Eng.

 

So the guy is not exaggerating even one bit? I find it hard to believe Pathan swearing like that guy's claiming.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/wivind/content/story/249721.html

Bumrah has done well in ranji 

 

Pathan wasnt even fit to play ranji, wnhy wud anyone select a player who shows up fit only during IPL . History has no meaning 

 

oh thnk u for reminding me that nz tour....his bowling was garbage

n he didnt deserve to play with that bowling

 

Ok lets say this is guy talking crap

What about his probelm with baroda association

Even goenka is pune team owner question his attitude that he lives in past.

His other IPL teams have thrown him

Ganguly has questioned his skill

 

jst becoz he was good once doesnt mean he wud be good all life. 

Anyone will tell u irfan batting, bowling fielding went down the drain after a point .........if he was so good he wud have been an asset in IPL for yrs 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03