beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) @riya I would understand if the temple did not allow all women...like a few temples that do not allow men. This temple does not allow a certain age group of women because the deity was brahmchari. What does that say about the women in the age group of 10-50? What are these women...wantom seductresses who can't be trusted to control themselves in a temple? What do women between 10-50 do in a temple...mujra? It is like an employer saying I won't employ young women because I want to stay chaste or be faithful to my wife? Does that make sense? It is like men between 20 -60 were not allowed in the temple because the deity is a kanya kumari? Do men go to temple to worship or to assault the deity? The protests are not surprising. Most younger women that face abuse at home face it from older women. These older women probably treat the younger ones like untouchable during periods and teach them to follow the same . A lot of women also do such acts to get approval and appreciation of the men folk around them. I do wish women from other religions or the ones doing it to irritate or get publicity stay away. But if a hindu woman of reproductive age feels she should be allowed,then she should be allowed and let it be between her and the deity . Who the hell are these followers to stop her? The deity's personal bouncers? Who has given them the right to misbehave with people who just want to worship? What are they scared of? That these women will enter and nothing will happen to them or the temple ?That more women will follow if the previous ones and hsle and hearty even after entering? It is disgusting to see people put in so much effort to treat some hindu women like enemies. Edited October 22, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, beetle said: What impact will it have? Not talking about the two crazies( they did most to derail the process.Not their religion,not their problem)... Just in general . What impact does it have if a woman between 10-50 does reach the temple ? IIRC, it is to respect the love for Aayapa by Malikaourathamma .... which is why the tradition is protected Quote The women pulling other woman out of cars shows how women are the biggest enemy of other women. God must be so happy seeing his lunatic age appropriate non menstruating bhakts act like thugs . Per religion, God is neither happy nor sad. We reap what we sow ..... Per those with wisdon, we are all here to suffer. Those not meant to suffer will not be on this planet .... Religion is here as it is supposed to guide us through the process of suffering .... If you don't follow religion, it does not matter to anyone Edited October 22, 2018 by zen velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, beetle said: A lot of women also do such acts to get approval and appreciation of the men folk around them. @riyaoff topic post. Explanation. I had read an article long time back on the resurgence of hijab in younger muslim women. A lot of muslim women in the last 4-5 decades worked very hard to get rid of the burka or the hijab in their lives. These were educated women married to educated men and they fought for their right to wear normal clothes . Even in India....there were many educated muslim educated women who gave up the forced wearing of burka. The men accepted it but probably not whole heartedly . The elders probably were resentful. A generation later ,some of these girls realised that the father and elders are happier if women follow what they want. These young girls who wanted the approval of the father ,brother and elders and the appreciation that was anyways hard to get for a girl.....decided to take up the less cumbersome hijab,thus appearing like religious sanskari girl who got more approval than the rebelious mother ever did.They also used the ' freedon to wear what they want....(in this case ,to get approval) In the quest for approval and appreciation of the men and older women,these girls gave up their freedom that their mothers fought so hard to get. Edited October 22, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Of all the problems in India about women, is this the #1 issue? who is dying because they can't enter Sabarimala? zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, beetle said: Frankly I do not understand why any sane woman would want to worship such an insecure god....but to each his own. People's right to do the ' legally ' allowed actions are far better than the illegal actions of mobs. people are really upset because these activists are really insulting the sensitivities of the temple goers.. i mentioned earlier as well , devotees who are going to visit sabrimala must adhere to some strict guidelines for 48 days ( 1 mandalam ) , and then only they can start their journey .. these activities are clearly violating this .. anyway we are still not really a liberal society to accept this and let the gods to decide the fate of these activists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 As we know Islam had some tough rules to control the barbaric folks of middle east. Also the climate is harsh in those parts .... because of weather, even men wear gear such as: I guess, which is why such rules were incorporated at that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, beetle said: But if a hindu woman of reproductive age feels she should be allowed,then she should be allowed and let it be between her and the deity . Every place of worship could have its guidelines, which are supposed to be passed down to those privileged enough by the deity .... If it is b/w us and the deity, we would have the understanding to respect those guidelines Edited October 22, 2018 by zen coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Under_Score said: Things are going out of control on this topic...my serious concern is if Mulo Granpa has cast his evil atheist spell on Beetle aunty...Hopefully I'm wrong...God bless them both... The problem is with the misunderstanding of the applicability of the word "freedom, equality, etc." .... there is no absolute freedom in life .... nor there is equality for e.g. PM of Ind > average citizen in the eyes of most (even though we would like to imagine that everyone is equal) As a citizen, husband/wife, son/daughter, friend, employer/employee, while driving a car, smoking, etc., there are rules and guidelines that are expected to be followed There is no real Atheist. Everyone suffers at some point and we all have to eventually reach out to God to get some sort of strength to face the problems and/or alleviate the suffering People have attacked religion since time immemorial but religion is here stay .... Yes, many of the things that people do in the name of religion may not be appropriate, but it is the case of people misusing the religion Edited October 22, 2018 by zen Under_Score and Shunya 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, beetle said: What impact will it have? Not talking about the two crazies( they did most to derail the process.Not their religion,not their problem)... Just in general . What impact does it have if a woman between 10-50 does reach the temple ? Earthquakes, lightening thunder,will the temple cease to exist. Let the god punish the women who enter instead of behaving like gundaas and gundees pulling women out of cars and dragging them and threatening for wanting to worship. Frankly I do not understand why any sane woman would want to worship such an insecure god....but to each his own. People's right to do the ' legally ' allowed actions are far better than the illegal actions of mobs. The women pulling other woman out of cars shows how women are the biggest enemy of other women. God must be so happy seeing his lunatic age appropriate non menstruating bhakts act like thugs . Are you a blind atheist to say this? Do you know Ram is called a masochist pig for demeaning Seeta? If you don't know about naishtchika bramacharya, don't throw around statements like stupid ignorant atheists do! Stradlater, Shunya and zen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: 8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Are you a blind atheist to say this? Do you know Ram is called a masochist pig for demeaning Seeta? If you don't know about naishtchika bramacharya, don't throw around statements like stupid ignorant atheists do! No...not an atheist....but not a blind follower either. I believe I have the right to decide who I want to consider worthy of my bhakti. My God is strong ,nonjudgemental about issues people who have no control over and who does not abandon or banish me for his or her own insecurities. P.s...had this argument with you before. Baar baar wahi baat. I posted for the tagged person. Edited October 22, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, beetle said: What impact will it have? Not talking about the two crazies( they did most to derail the process.Not their religion,not their problem)... Just in general . What impact does it have if a woman between 10-50 does reach the temple ? What is your opinion on belief? Is Ram a God? There is a logical reason to demean everybody. If you talk like a blind atheist, there is no point in this debate? If you are agnostic, stay out of this thread and keep your arguments to human rights violations like female infantiide, women going to bathroom in the dark. THis ia matter of faith. 1 hour ago, beetle said: Earthquakes, lightening thunder,will the temple cease to exist. Let the god punish the women who enter instead of behaving like gundaas and gundees pulling women out of cars and dragging them and threatening for wanting to worship. No the deity ceases to exist. Are you a party to this nexus to break belief? 1 hour ago, beetle said: Frankly I do not understand why any sane woman would want to worship such an insecure god....but to each his North Indians should go to other temples in North India where women are not preferred to pray before knowing about Sabarimala. 1 hour ago, beetle said: n. People's right to do the ' legally ' allowed actions are far better than the illegal actions of mobs. In this case, the belief system is under attack and we are a soft target for commies and blind atheists and other soul vultures like the evangelists. 1 hour ago, beetle said: The women pulling other woman out of cars shows how women are the biggest enemy of other women. God must be so happy seeing his lunatic age appropriate non menstruating bhakts act like thugs . Shunya and zen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) many atheists try to make it a science vs religion contest .... and propagate "I believe what I see" theory as can be demonstrated scientifically Ironically, by doing that, these atheists do not even display that they understand science properly. Because if men of science believed in "I believe in what I see" even a washing machine would not be invented Many idiots even think they are smarter than Einstein or whoever because what Einstein or whoever knew is now known to many. Again forgetting that Einstein or whoever invented something that no one knew in their respective time. To be smarter, you would need to invent something that we do not know today Edited October 22, 2018 by zen Shunya, Laaloo, coffee_rules and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 BeetleJi, follow #ReadyToWait tag on Twitter started by Women (about two years old), before throwing stereotypical feminist statements about Hinduism/gods/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) Sabrimala is no tourist place. Keep out if you are not a devotee. If you don't believe in Aiyappa, don't force your way there. There are people praying to this deity and you can pray to your Durga/Kali/Krishna/Ram/Hanuman or whoever your Istha Devata is. If you don't believe in God/Aiyappa in general, fine, nobody is forcing, keep out and stay in your living room recliner and think about about how Jamal Khashoggi was murdered in CCTV broad daylight. Edited October 22, 2018 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Sabrimala is no tourist place. Keep out if you are not a devotee. If you don't believe in Aiyappa, don't force your way there. There are people praying to this deity and you can pray to your Durga/Kali/Krishna/Ram/Hanuman or whoever your Istha Devata is. If you don't believe in God/Aiyappa in general, fine, nobody is forcing, keep out and stay in your living room recliner and think about about how Jamal Khashoggi was murdered in CCTV broad daylight. I am not even remotely interested to do that.No need to make it personal. ....but the SC says the ones who want to go should be allowed to go ....and I do care that mobs don't have their way based on numbers and the brutality they can commit ....because when mobs get their way once,they don't stop at one. And don't tell people who they should worship and where they should go to worship because you don't have that authority . No one gave you that right . It is a public forum and people will have differing views. If you can't read views other than your own kind,use the ignore facility for people who offend your sensibilities. You know my views,I know yours.....why do you keep repeating the same thing on the same topic ? Learn to agree to disagree. I wanted to know riya's views because she is a woman in the ' banned by the lord' age group like me. Edited October 22, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Under_Score said: 4 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Do you know Ram is called a masochist pig for demeaning Seeta? That is pretty harsh. He had a lot of good in him . A great king ,great son,good brother ,good leader of men and beasts. He was not a fair husband and a pretty irresponsible and bad father. Now if a bhakt refuses to accept that he was an unfair husband and father....then that is wrong. There is no maryada in abandoning ones unborn children. I don't think his actions had much to do with male chauvinism . It had more to do with people pleasing and the need to appear to be fair to the people ....even at the cost of wife and kids. People pleasing comes with a huge cost . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Under_Score said: Things are going out of control on this topic...my serious concern is if Mulo Granpa has cast his evil atheist spell on Beetle aunty...Hopefully I'm wrong...God bless them both... Mulo will take forever to cast his evil spell.At least 6-7 pages long . I have very little patience. Under_Score and DHONI_FANN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollack Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 6 hours ago, beetle said: Frankly I do not understand why any sane woman would want to worship such an insecure god....but to each his own. Right beetle stay away from his worship. You and all those who don't understand there are certain rules and guidelines for each deity to be followed aren't worth wasting time on this issue. Shunya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 4 hours ago, coffee_rules said: What is your opinion on belief? Is Ram a God? When I was a child,me and my brother used to make bows and arrows from bamboos and play Ram and laxman. That time Ram was the most interesting God ....with an amazing journey . We must have heard the same Ramayan from mom a thousand times. As a kid, one doesn't question much and I did not find anything bad about the later part of Ramayan. As one grows, one learns to question. As I grew ,I questioned his abandoning his wife. Later on ,I stopped questioning that because it was between two adults .Who knows the entire story? May be they were incompatible . Since I had a child,I find the act of abandoning ones children quiet saddening and questionable. Since then I find Ram as a God with some major flaws that are hard to justify. I find it very hard to tell the story of Ramayana to my child with the same innocence and lack of judgement that my mom did. I hope that answers the question. I haven't answered the rest because it is all repetitive from the other thread we had on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollack Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, beetle said: That is pretty harsh. He had a lot of good in him . A great king ,great son,good brother ,good leader of men and beasts. He was not a fair husband and a pretty irresponsible and bad father. Now if a bhakt refuses to accept that he was an unfair husband and father....then that is wrong. There is no maryada in abandoning ones unborn children. I don't think his actions had much to do with male chauvinism . It had more to do with people pleasing and the need to appear to be fair to the people ....even at the cost of wife and kids. People pleasing comes with a huge cost . Rama's life was completely disastrous and tragic and yet this man managed to be a great king, son , brother and leader and according to me a good father too. I agree with you that he was an unfair husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts