Michael Vaughan places Virat Kohli above Sachin Tendulkar and Brian Lara: I haven't seen anyone better

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, mishra said:

Lyon , one of best spinner, ever 

one of the best off spinner ever.  Is there any doubt? tell me what Murli and Swann averages in Australia and they are two of the best off spinners ever? check the bold part

[Muloghonto]

25 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Indians have never been known for sweeping, dont make up things.  Indians have always struggled against spinners who have been quick in the air.  So they could have handled likes of Warne who were slower in the air.  Murli averages 24 against India in SL.  

LOL.

There are plenty of test matches from the 90s where Warne, Murali etc. have been LITERALLY neutralized by sweeping the cr@p out of them. Azhar, Sidhu - compulsive sweepers. Tendy didnt do the classic sweep very much but his paddle sweep happened more often in ONE series than entire YEAR for the top order of this lineup. 

Stop making stuff up about cricket you have not seen. Murali may average 24 in Sri Lanka. Where pitches were square turners. India during that era made crumbly pitches to help Kumble's style- where he was unplayable on crumbly pitches with his flipper and top spinner. And we still did fine against Murali at home. This lineup cr@ps its pants vs Lyon, a spinner that isnt even 20% of Murali.

 

Stop pumping tires of inferior cricketers because it suits your narrative of 'cricket has continuously improved over time' nonsense.

 

[Muloghonto]

24 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

one of the best off spinner ever.  Is there any doubt? tell me what Murli and Swann averages in Australia and they are two of the best off spinners ever? check the bold part

Too bad Lyon only has 30000x experience in Australia than Murali or Swann. 

Lyon is a mediocre spinner. Period. 

His aukaad is being magnified by the worst spin playing Indian team in the lat 50 years. 

His true aukaad was shown when he played in India vs Tendy,Pujara,Dhoni, Sehwag  three of these 4 are orders of magnitude better against spin than even Kohli, nevermind rest of the embarassments for spin-playing. 

 

[rtmohanlal]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

one of the best off spinner ever.  Is there any doubt? tell me what Murli and Swann averages in Australia and they are two of the best off spinners ever? check the bold part

Lyon in general might be a  good spinner , but to call him one of the best  is OTT . He still avg:s  31.6 which proves his lack of all conditional efficiency.

[R!TTER]

Not to forget that Lyon is bowling with DRS, in an age where umpires give more LBW than ever before or the fact that he's bowling to the worst players of spin (from India) ever!He still avg above 30, if Warne was bowling today he's have avg 10 less & Murali perhaps a shade under 30, depending on whether he'd be banned far chucking or not 

[mishra]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

one of the best off spinner ever.  Is there any doubt? tell me what Murli and Swann averages in Australia and they are two of the best off spinners ever? check the bold part

I dint know, may be its me. But i dont rate him. Bongs, Kiwis, afghanis, Pakistani,english( just Ali) or our Jaddu and Ashwin are nowhere worse then Lyon.

Visiting players shitting in pants on Australia doesn’t mean Lyon is one of best of current players.

And Forget Murali who played all his life against one of ATG aussie side, Even Swanny was miles ahead of Lyon.

Edited December 22, 2018 by mishra

[cowboysfan]

Lol at people who think Lyon is great.He is strictly a good line and length bowler and made to look good by players who DONT know how to play attacking cricket against him.Just look at  our teams best batsmen kohli and Pujara,they have no idea or capability to score when he bowls the good length pitching outside off.They wont cut the ball nor will they use the feet.They are basically sitting ducks out there because they cant upset his line and length.

[Deleted_User_1]

On 12/21/2018 at 9:55 AM, Muloghonto said:

Yet he massacred spinners far better than Lyon. Offies have rarely bothered the far superior Indian batsmen (against spin) from the past. Because they were 1000 times better at sweeping and thus negating the spin. 

I am not going to get into this particular debate, although I must say Sachin played for 24 years of which 2.75 yrs between 2004-2006 he struggled with tennis elbow and 2.5 years he sank into mediocrity after WC 2011. So 18.75 years of his long career he was at the top of his game to varying degrees. Kohli has played only 7 years in test cricket. Let him play a few years and we will see. So far he has been exemplary. Sachin also played with the expectation of a lot more countrymen on his shoulder than Kohli has to do (nothing personally against him for that). This is simply becasue there are way more other outlets for people now and very few people care about test cricket these days with the advent of tamasha kirkut.

 

Regarding Lyon, it is laughable how the current crop including Kohli play him. A few previous Indian greats would have smashed him out of the attack. No one has the balls to get down to the pitch and drive to negate the spin, they are prepared to hang back and take the risk. Pujara does it a bit, but not as much. Not enough sweep. Yes players like Sachin and Sunny would be negotiated him far too easily. It seems like these people do not have a strategy against him or if even they come up with one, do not have the confidence to execute it.

Edited December 23, 2018 by dandaroy

[Muloghonto]

51 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

Lol at people who think Lyon is great.He is strictly a good line and length bowler and made to look good by players who DONT know how to play attacking cricket against him.Just look at  our teams best batsmen kohli and Pujara,they have no idea or capability to score when he bowls the good length pitching outside off.They wont cut the ball nor will they use the feet.They are basically sitting ducks out there because they cant upset his line and length.

 

36 minutes ago, dandaroy said:

I am not going to get into this particular debate, although I must say Sachin played for 24 years of which 2.75 yrs between 2004-2006 he struggled with tennis elbow and 2.5 years he sank into mediocrity after WC 2011. So 18.75 years of his long career he was at the top of his game to varying degrees. Kohli has played only 7 years in test cricket. Let him play a few years and we will see. So far he has been exemplary. Sachin also played with the expectation of a lot more countrymen oon his shouldder than Kohli has to do (nothing personally against him for that). This is simply becasue there are way more other outlets for people now and very few people care about test cricket these days with the advent of tamasha kirkut.

 

Regarding Lyon, it is laughable how the current crop including Kohli play him. A few previous Indian greats would have smashed him out of the attack. No one has the balls to get down to the pitch and drive to negate the spin, they are prepared to hang back and take the risk. Pujara does it a bit, but not as much. Not enough sweep. Yes players like Sachin and Sunny would be negotiated him far too easily. It seems like these people do not have a strategy against him or if even they come up with one, do not have the confidence to execute it.

Its because since early 2000s, India became obsessed with developing fast bowlers by hook or by crook and the easiest way to do that, is to make pace friendly pitches. Combined with T20 cricket, which is basically the 'death of spin bowling cricket', now our domestic pool of spinners suck. For one, FC wickets are all way more pace-friendly. For two, T20 means no scope of flight, loop or pace..its just throw darts and be dartbhajan.

Combined with all these factors, India basically gave up its strength to shore up its weakness, but its not a net positive result, because India as a land is way more suited for spin bowlers and spin bowling (climate & soil factors). So we will never become the qualitative factory of pace bowling like Australia or South Africa are, just like no-matter how many spin-friendly wickets they produce, they will never match a normal subcontinental nation in qualitative production of spinners.

 

All this means that average spinners like Lyon are now terrorizing India. If this series was 10-15 years ago, Lyon would've taken 4-6 wickets the whole series so far at average approaching 50 or 60. 

 

I am not exgaggerating when i say that our two best spin players by far- Kohli and Pujara- would not make the Indian team of 80s and 90s at home, if playing spin was a criteria. Even Manjrekar was streets ahead of them. 

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

our two best spin players by far- Kohli and Pujara- would not make the Indian team of 80s and 90s

Lolz

[zen]

All that many of these Sachin fanboys do is attack other ATG players whether from Ind or overseas 

[Muloghonto]

26 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Lolz

sad but true. They need to learn how to eat spinners for dinner with eyes closed from the likes of Azhar or Sidhu. Lyon would have figures like 20-2-75-1 against guys like those on pitches like these.

[Muloghonto]

26 minutes ago, zen said:

All that many of these Sachin fanboys do is attack other ATG players whether from Ind or overseas 

Abbey idiot, its not just about Sachin. Sidhu, Kambli, Azhar,,Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag,Laxman, Vengsarkar, Vishwanath - these guys make Kohli and Pujara look like school children when it comes to playing spin. From the 80s/90s team that was on similar skill level for playing spin as Kohli and Pujara was Prabhakar. Yes, thats how ordinary they are. 
The rest - Rahane or such - their ability to play spin is slightly better than the tailenders of the past. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Muloghonto

[Deleted_User_1]

17 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

Lyon in general might be a  good spinner , but to call him one of the best  is OTT . He still avg:s  31.6 which proves his lack of all conditional efficiency.

Yes, it would be wrong to say that he is not a good off spinner. He is. However, our batsman are making him out to be a killer one than he is. 

[Deleted_User_1]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Its because since early 2000s, India became obsessed with developing fast bowlers by hook or by crook and the easiest way to do that, is to make pace friendly pitches. Combined with T20 cricket, which is basically the 'death of spin bowling cricket', now our domestic pool of spinners suck. For one, FC wickets are all way more pace-friendly. For two, T20 means no scope of flight, loop or pace..its just throw darts and be dartbhajan.

Combined with all these factors, India basically gave up its strength to shore up its weakness, but its not a net positive result, because India as a land is way more suited for spin bowlers and spin bowling (climate & soil factors). So we will never become the qualitative factory of pace bowling like Australia or South Africa are, just like no-matter how many spin-friendly wickets they produce, they will never match a normal subcontinental nation in qualitative production of spinners.

 

All this means that average spinners like Lyon are now terrorizing India. If this series was 10-15 years ago, Lyon would've taken 4-6 wickets the whole series so far at average approaching 50 or 60. 

 

I am not exgaggerating when i say that our two best spin players by far- Kohli and Pujara- would not make the Indian team of 80s and 90s at home, if playing spin was a criteria. Even Manjrekar was streets ahead of them. 

I am not going to go that far, but yes, India as a whole has taken a back seat with playing spin bowling which is shocking coming from the land of spin. Even quality spinners in tests are becoming a rarity.

[rtmohanlal]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

sad but true. They need to learn how to eat spinners for dinner with eyes closed from the likes of Azhar or Sidhu. Lyon would have figures like 20-2-75-1 against guys like those on pitches like these.

that one man  would have been enough for Lyon. The man who drew the first blood against Murali & Warne in India, and they never recovered from that onslaught w.r.t performing in India. In 1993 or so, Sidhu hit Murali for 9 sixes in an  inns  or so. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by rtmohanlal

[rtmohanlal]

5 hours ago, zen said:

All that many of these Sachin fanboys do is attack other ATG players whether from Ind or overseas 

all that you are capable of doing is calling names( labelling as 'Sachin fanboys'  etc) against people who have different opinions.Here people were pointing out a few  informative  factors. Yes... some times it can happen that a bit OTT comments can be put forward and naturally counter arguements to correct those would also come.And that's exactly the purpose of discussing itself. But then all of a sudden would come LKG  kids  who  attack people with different opinions as  'Sachin fanboys'   and all