Who was the better batsmen in tests between Zaheer Abbas and Gundappa Vishwanath?

[Gollum]

Zaheer Abbas was like Ian Bell, GRV was like Laxman....I prefer the latter because I value runs in crisis situations more. Not undermining Abbas but he made plenty of soft runs, also patriotic Pak umpiring helped. For most of his career he was a fair-weather batsman while Vishy was the one who brought his best in rough waters. Teams need both kinds of batsmen but the fair-weather ones are easier to produce, history is replete with their kind. I prefer Abbas in England, Australia (just, razor thin margin) and on flat tracks...Vishy everywhere else. I also prefer Abbas in a hypothetical match scenario where the side is in control and intending to put the dagger deeper into the opponent's chest, not many better than him when it came to pressing an advantageous position. He could run away with the game in a manner very few in the history of cricket could. Vishy was other worldly in salvaging hopeless match situations, either converting sure losses into draws or worse positions to outright wins.

 

Interestingly @Harsh Thakor I think a better comparison among Pakistanis w.r.t Vishy will be the legendary Asif Iqbal. I see more similarities between him and Vishy than the current comparison on which the premise of this thread is based. Both crisis men, both underachievers stats-wise, both artists, both predominantly backfoot players (correct me if I am wrong but haven't seen videos of Iqbal...only based on reading material and hearsay), both more or less forgotten by their own countrymen. I'd say Vishy was an upgraded version of the Hyderabad born Iqbal with the bat (and also no 4 vs no 5/6), ofc the latter even bowled with some success making them comparable overall cricketers. Leaving the fixing controversies aside and judging purely on cricketing merits Asif Iqbal is a colossal figure in the world of cricket especially considering cricket in Asia wasn't that developed in the 60s and 70s. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Gollum

[mishra]

Good informative thread. 

[Khota]

On 2/13/2019 at 4:45 AM, Harsh Thakor said:

Both were technical masterpieces.Edgbaston 274 morally won the match above all for Pakistan.

You do understand moral wins in sports don't count.

[Khota]

7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

SRT was also at times clueless against Anderson.

I don't think Tendu has to prove anything when it comes to batting.

[Harsh Thakor]

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

Zaheer Abbas was like Ian Bell, GRV was like Laxman....I prefer the latter because I value runs in crisis situations more. Not undermining Abbas but he made plenty of soft runs, also patriotic Pak umpiring helped. For most of his career he was a fair-weather batsman while Vishy was the one who brought his best in rough waters. Teams need both kinds of batsmen but the fair-weather ones are easier to produce, history is replete with their kind. I prefer Abbas in England, Australia (just, razor thin margin) and on flat tracks...Vishy everywhere else. I also prefer Abbas in a hypothetical match scenario where the side is in control and intending to put the dagger deeper into the opponent's chest, not many better than him when it came to pressing an advantageous position. He could run away with the game in a manner very few in the history of cricket could. Vishy was other worldly in salvaging hopeless match situations, either converting sure losses into draws or worse positions to outright wins.

 

Interestingly @Harsh Thakor I think a better comparison among Pakistanis w.r.t Vishy will be the legendary Asif Iqbal. I see more similarities between him and Vishy than the current comparison on which the premise of this thread is based. Both crisis men, both underachievers stats-wise, both artists, both predominantly backfoot players (correct me if I am wrong but haven't seen videos of Iqbal...only based on reading material and hearsay), both more or less forgotten by their own countrymen. I'd say Vishy was an upgraded version of the Hyderabad born Iqbal with the bat (and also no 4 vs no 5/6), ofc the latter even bowled with some success making them comparable overall cricketers. Leaving the fixing controversies aside and judging purely on cricketing merits Asif Iqbal is a colossal figure in the world of cricket especially considering cricket in Asia wasn't that developed in the 60s and 70s. 

Great post agree on Asif Iqbal-A maestro on his day.Great in later part of career.

[Khota]

I felt Asif was another mediocre player. Maybe I am missing something.

 

For me the great players from pakistan are:

Wasim

Sohaib

Waqar

Imran

Inzi

Mo Yo

Younis

Misbah

 

I think they were absolutely the best and Wasim was phenomenonlal. Wasim probabaly has inspired more people to bowl than any other.

[vvvslaxman]

Can we have all the "Gundappa" threads under one single topic?

[putrevus]

Zaheer was weak against pace bowling but he had this enormous appetite for runs.But He was far better batsman than Vishy.This notion that Vishy was super against pace bowling is far fetched.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

I felt Asif was another mediocre player. Maybe I am missing something.

 

For me the great players from pakistan are:

Wasim

Sohaib

Waqar

Imran

Inzi

Mo Yo

Younis

Misbah

 

I think they were absolutely the best and Wasim was phenomenonlal. Wasim probabaly has inspired more people to bowl than any other.

every player from 60s-70s-80s was a maestro.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

I felt Asif was another mediocre player. Maybe I am missing something.

 

For me the great players from pakistan are:

Wasim

Sohaib

Waqar

Imran

Inzi

Mo Yo

Younis

Misbah

 

I think they were absolutely the best and Wasim was phenomenonlal. Wasim probabaly has inspired more people to bowl than any other.

what about Shoaib Mohammad?

[Gollum]

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Zaheer was weak against pace bowling but he had this enormous appetite for runs.But He was far better batsman than Vishy.This notion that Vishy was super against pace bowling is far fetched.

Yeah that's why Zaheer averaged so much more than Vishy, oh wait? He didn't...average of 44.79 with the help of Pak umpires tells a different story. Far better than Vishy ofc in ODIs but we are talking about tests. He ran away against genuine pace, so much so that Imran Khan denounced his cowardice in his writings. 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Yeah that's why Zaheer averaged so much more than Vishy, oh wait? He didn't...average of 44.79 with the help of Pak umpires tells a different story. Far better than Vishy ofc in ODIs but we are talking about tests. He ran away against genuine pace, so much so that Imran Khan denounced his cowardice in his writings. 

You are talking as if Vishwanath was running head on and relished facing pace bowlers. Vishy scored 10 hundreds at home which is more than Zaheer.Vishy was not better test or odi player than Zaheer.

 

 

 

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

You are talking as if Vishwanath was running head on and relished facing pace bowlers. Vishy scored 10 hundreds at home which is more than Zaheer.Vishy was not better test or odi player than Zaheer.

 

OK whatever, not in the mood now. Massive terror attack on our braves in Kashmir, can discuss cricket later. 

[Aiden]

Theres a reason Zaheer was known as Asian Bradman. 

[Harsh Thakor]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Yeah that's why Zaheer averaged so much more than Vishy, oh wait? He didn't...average of 44.79 with the help of Pak umpires tells a different story. Far better than Vishy ofc in ODIs but we are talking about tests. He ran away against genuine pace, so much so that Imran Khan denounced his cowardice in his writings. 

Correct. Zaheer was ahead in ODI cricket by some margin and a better player of spin and on slow wickets,Vishy  was the better batsmen in a crisis and on bad wickets as well as genuine pace.See Vishwanaths record against West Indies home and away.Overall Zaheer was better but it was probably a draw in test cricket.

[Harsh Thakor]

1 hour ago, Aiden said:

Theres a reason Zaheer was known as Asian Bradman. 

In Ist class cricket Zaheer was the best batsmen of his era and close to 2nd best to the Don.However International cricket is the criteria.Still at his best Zaheer was good as anybody .The Bradman of slow wickets.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Harsh Thakor

[Harsh Thakor]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

You are talking as if Vishwanath was running head on and relished facing pace bowlers. Vishy scored 10 hundreds at home which is more than Zaheer.Vishy was not better test or odi player than Zaheer.

 

 

 

Please consider the no of times Vishy scored centuries in a crisis,on difficult wickets and to turn games.Vishy had a much better record against West Indies and in a crisis than Zaheer.

[Harsh Thakor]

11 hours ago, Gollum said:

Zaheer Abbas was like Ian Bell, GRV was like Laxman....I prefer the latter because I value runs in crisis situations more. Not undermining Abbas but he made plenty of soft runs, also patriotic Pak umpiring helped. For most of his career he was a fair-weather batsman while Vishy was the one who brought his best in rough waters. Teams need both kinds of batsmen but the fair-weather ones are easier to produce, history is replete with their kind. I prefer Abbas in England, Australia (just, razor thin margin) and on flat tracks...Vishy everywhere else. I also prefer Abbas in a hypothetical match scenario where the side is in control and intending to put the dagger deeper into the opponent's chest, not many better than him when it came to pressing an advantageous position. He could run away with the game in a manner very few in the history of cricket could. Vishy was other worldly in salvaging hopeless match situations, either converting sure losses into draws or worse positions to outright wins.

 

Interestingly @Harsh Thakor I think a better comparison among Pakistanis w.r.t Vishy will be the legendary Asif Iqbal. I see more similarities between him and Vishy than the current comparison on which the premise of this thread is based. Both crisis men, both underachievers stats-wise, both artists, both predominantly backfoot players (correct me if I am wrong but haven't seen videos of Iqbal...only based on reading material and hearsay), both more or less forgotten by their own countrymen. I'd say Vishy was an upgraded version of the Hyderabad born Iqbal with the bat (and also no 4 vs no 5/6), ofc the latter even bowled with some success making them comparable overall cricketers. Leaving the fixing controversies aside and judging purely on cricketing merits Asif Iqbal is a colossal figure in the world of cricket especially considering cricket in Asia wasn't that developed in the 60s and 70s. 

Brilliant comparison assessing comparative merits of Zaheer and Vishy most analytically.The fairest verdict was a draw in test cricket.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Harsh Thakor

[Straight Drive]

6 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

In Ist class cricket Zaheer was the best batsmen of his era and close to 2nd best to the Don.However International cricket is the criteria.Still at his best Zaheer was good as anybody .The Bradman of slow wickets.

Iiirc Vishy played in only two away series in WI.

 

1971 -  Totally struggled.

1976 -  Did good.

1983 - Did not tour.

 

Vishy struggled in England 1971.

 

He did well against Windies in home conditions.

 

[Khota]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

every player from 60s-70s-80s was a maestro.

So true. Zaheer was slow, overweight and not athletic at all.