#StopHindiImposition Protests [ Only for Tammys ] !!!

[Real McCoy]

6 hours ago, maniac said:

I don't know about the other states but Marathis and Tamils will be the first to tell you that they don't like Hindi dominating their Mother tounge. speaking Hindi will not exactly endear you to them.

 

As far as Goans go, I have seen the Anglo types speak in English more than Hindi.

I know from a Marathi friend who didn't mind hindi being used to converse with locals. But he doesn't like the fact that some or most hindi speakers (can't remember) in Maharashtra and living there for 10 years who still can't speak basic colloquial Marathi. Also most anglo-indians speak english even though they know the local language. They will speak to their maids in local language

[Stan AF]

On 9/17/2019 at 10:15 PM, Gollum said:

From personal experience found Mallus to be most averse to Hindi. Bengaluru, Hyderabad are almost Kolkata level when it comes to being able to manage with Hindi, personally prefer Bengali when I visit Kolkata. Don't want to lose touch with the language, moved out of the state 10 years back and am already weak, in school (ICSE) Bengali was my 3rd language while Hindi was 2nd. Spoken Bengali is fine but not being able to read as fluently as I used to and feel very guilty about it . Thinking of subscribing to some Bengali e-paper to brush up my skills. 

Thanks Gollum for typing your own experience. From your post I'm gathering that English was your first,  - hindi 2nd and your mother tongue bengali the third. See this is a classic imposition right here!!. Why wasn't your mother tongue bengali, the first or 2nd language in this case. You have already relegated it to your third preferred choice of communication and the results speak for themselves.  By your own admission you aren't using your language and already losing the grip of conversation and feeling guilty about it. Why wasn't bengali given the first preference here?. I can understand English being the mode of education but at-least the 2nd place should have been given to bengali.

 

If this continues, 2-3 generations from you they will completely don't know your mother tongue bengali and it will be wiped out and it will be replaced by the usual suspects. This is what TN aims to completely keep out. Two Language Policy (Tamil & English) is more than enough. If we want we'd learn computer languages as there's a better economic future as opposed to hindi.

Edited September 20, 2019 by beetle

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Stan AF said:

Thanks Gollum for typing your own experience. From your post I'm gathering that English was your first, indhi - 2nd and your mother tongue bengali the third. See this is a classic imposition right here!!. Why wasn't your mother tongue bengali, the first or 2nd language in this case. You have already relegated it to your third preferred choice of communication and the results speak for themselves.  By your own admission you aren't using your language and already losing the grip of conversation and feeling guilty about it. Why wasn't bengali given the first preference here?. I can understand English being the mode of education but at-least the 2nd place should have been given to bengali.

 

If this continues, 2-3 generations from you they will completely don't know your mother tongue bengali and it will be wiped out and it will be replaced by the usual suspects. This is what TN aims to completely keep out. Two Language Policy (Tamil & English) is more than enough. If we want we'd learn computer languages as there's a better economic future as opposed to Indhi.

Stan, ennaku Tamil teriyum, eida padika teriyadu aana pesa teriyum. Yaar sonna Bengali ennodu MT? Amma origin Palakkad (but based in North), Appa Bhopal lende, avarodu thai mozhi Banarasi Hindi. Amma nallave Hindi pesivanga, Appa ka konjum konjum Tamil teriyum, ennodu Tamil weak yena naa Bengal la porende, anga daan schooling panne. English 1st, Hindi 2nd, Bengali 3rd in school..out of necessity and environment, only these 3 languages were offered in my school and more advantageous to take Hindi because of background, competition. Aanalu naa Bengali oden touch le irke muyarchi seivan. Difficult in Bengaluru aana Bengalis oden Bengali la daa pesuven. Amma often Tamil use pannavanga and Mama, Periamma, Chitti ode naa Tamil le pesuvein, they don't mind even if I don't have command like them. Chennai pombodu easy aa manage pannidvein. Language problem ennodu family le kadaive kadiyade, respect from all sides, paati, attai, chittapa eager to expand their horizon of languages, konjum konjum Tamil avalu kattindrika Amma tende. 

 

Important question, you understand what I wrote ? Pronunciation not good and  I can't read/write...so may be comical. Guarantee future le Tamil eida padika kattundruven. Romba varsha minnadi alphabets ovvar summer/Puja holidays le kathindrikein, later ellame marandupeidvan. Next time won't give up halfway, one of the aims of my life. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gollum

[Stan AF]

I did understand dude.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Stan AF

[Vilander]

13 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Typo influenced. These neo Kannada dravidas are following the same model of their eastern neighbors to gain ground politically. Karnataka still doesnt have any grassroot level support to this movement. It was only limited to shops and businesses not having a Kannada signboard. Nowadays there are some groups who want to desanskritize Kannada , you know how it was started in TN by Periyar and others! Urdu is fine, but no Sanskrit ! Google ellara Kannada. Rubbish I should say.

Yes, it started in TN but whats happening in KA now is from within KA and can not be brushed aside - politicians will fan it and people will lap it up,. This is an emotive subject will get traction as folks equate job and security with this. Removing Sanskrit from Kannada will make the language lesser wonder how they plan on implementing it, like inventing new words may be ? 

[Vilander]

12 hours ago, javier26 said:

Hindi is the link language for many Indians of different ethnicities , no other Indian language can come close to it.

 

For example, Marathis,  Gujaratis , Bengalis , Tamils, Goans on the streets of Mumbai  communicate with each other in Hindi. 

 

When i travel to Kolkata/WB , I use Hindi.

When i travel to Orissa, I use Hindi

When i travel to Gujarat,  I use Hindi

When i travel to Delhi, i use Hindi

When i travel to anywhere in the cow belt region , Hindi is useful for me.

 

Whether anyone likes it or not , Hindi will continue to grow in Non-Hindi regions. Its kool to write Anti-Hindi essays on online forums but no way can the growth of Hindi be contained now , sorry its too late. 

no one is being anti hindi. And no one is trying to contain it either. Straw-men arguments here..

[Vilander]

On 9/19/2019 at 11:55 AM, Real McCoy said:

 

dude lolz.. that cracked me up, muloganta being all hindi pandit will try to fraternize and the other dude will spit his pan on his face lolz.

Edited September 20, 2019 by beetle

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, Moochad said:

Some Tamils in this case are perfectly willing for their language to be 2nd to English, but not Hindi. I think that is a big difference and so the two aren't comparable.  

wtf are you ranting seriously ? stop your tamil hate. how do you deduce tamils are ok for their language to be second to any other language and how does a language become second to something else ?

[Gollum]

@Stan AF English+MT is the best way forward. Adopting English has too many advantages to ignore, it is slowly becoming the language of the world/humanity, lingua franca if not there already.....crazy demand to learn English in Europe, Africa, China, Russia, Japan etc, are they fools or what? We are advantageously placed because it comes more naturally to us. Hindi offers no such advantage, no regional language does, English can easily be our link language. I say spread English with missionary zeal all across India and make it 1st or 2nd language in our education system, not one school untouched....result may take time but will show. Saw some posts talk about it being a foreign language, national pride and what not....when we can absorb so many wonderful things from the West why not their most powerful tool? If we go into details about what is foreign and what is Indic it will become an exhaustive list and reveal our contradictions and hypocrisy. British India has had a big say in modern day India, no denying or running away from that fact, we need to take the positive stuff. In which other empire did Kashmir, Kerala and Mizoram come under same administrative unit? India's map as we know it today is a British creation, English is best placed to be the common link language. 

 

People don't hate any language just for the sake of it, only when there is the threat of imposition do people get agitated. If Hindi has to grow organically no problem. The minute you talk about it being placed above or even at par with another regional language (by Central Authority in this Union of "States") there will be many problems. Tamils, Malayalis, Marathis, Bengalis, no one will like it. Bengalis are pretty chill about this language stuff but if ever there is talk of Hindi getting precedence over Bengali in the state, the blowback will be vigorous...never underestimate the love and passion Bongs have for their language/culture, ask the Pakistanis. Already many in the state aren't comfortable with the aggressive entry of Hindi culture...Ram/Sita vs Kali/Durga was a huge bone of contention in the previous election. More people may support BJP for now because TMC is led by a crazy women who has taken the state to the brink. Otherwise any day Bengalis would prefer a Bengali version of BJP, safeguarding local culture and the language. Bengalis have taken to Hindi more easily than Southies because common branch of language, easier to learn, more Hindi speaking people in the state, economic benefits. It isn't about being pu$$ies or anything like that. A Bong or Gujju will easily imbibe Hindi lessons but ask that person to learn and speak in Malayalam, phatt ke haath mein aa jayega. Tamils OTOH will learn other South languages more easily.

 

@Muloghonto you may be from an older generation but slowly many Bengali kids esp in urban areas are losing touch with their MT, they aren't as proficient as your generation, quite a few won't be able to write a proper letter these days. And many knowledgeable people do say that newer generation is unable to pronounce many Bangla words properly. Slowly but surely happening and I am sure it won't go unnoticed for too long. Look at Bangladeshis on SM and our boys, there is clear divergence as far as language skills, ease, fluency, English/Hindi influence etc are concerned. Some of our guys aren't even confident of conversing in Bangla online, all a matter of habit which we are losing. 

 

It is hypocritical to see Hindi chauvinists urge others to learn Hindi while they themselves don't bother to learn other languages. How is it fair if others are supposed to learn an extra language? Will Hindi states propose to make their children learn a 3rd language (not Hindi dialects) in addition to English and Hindi...can be anything->Telugu, Bengali, Konkani...pick and choose. If they are ready to do that maybe there can be some talking point, otherwise forget it.

 

Also Central Govt should stop giving added advantage to Hindi. Why Central Govt exam papers are in Hindi in addition to English? It is such a huge advantage to those with Hindi as MT, someone from South or Nagaland might have learnt Hindi but he/she wouldn't find it as easy (generally speaking, leave exceptions aside) as someone whose MT is Hindi...so no advantage in picking Hindi as paper option. English provides a level playing field, except Anglo-Indians (fast diminishing) it ain't the MT of any other group. FFS either make all exam papers English medium or print them in all regional languages as well as English. This is just an example but shows how Hindi speaking states are pampered in India by the Centre. And they will be rewarded further as their population explodes, states that have done their bit towards stabilizing population will further suffer....how is this fair? Before the expected 'democracy/majority' argument comes, it will be a timely reminder that majority people also have wrong view points on many things, eg homosexuality which most Indians disapprove of..majority views can not override minority rights. Federalism is a vital feature of our constitution and has to be respected, states formed on linguistic basis must be given their freedom of choice. About time education is also brought back from concurrent to state list @Real McCoy. 

 

PS: Let us keep this thread clean. No need to abuse other languages or cultures. Agree/disagree but do so like well mannered adults.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gollum

[Moochad]

 

9 hours ago, Moochad said:

Some Tamils in this case are perfectly willing for their language to be 2nd to English, but not Hindi. I think that is a big difference and so the two aren't comparable.  

 

57 minutes ago, Vilander said:

wtf are you ranting seriously ? stop your tamil hate. how do you deduce tamils are ok for their language to be second to any other language and how does a language become second to something else ?

 I have no reason to hate Tamils and have never said anything abusive about Tamils. Lemurs who abuse the rest of India and Hinduism, for sure, but never Tamils in general.  You I have seen abuse North Indians, Gujaratis, Marathis and other ethnicities  before.  Seems only you have hatred in this case, not me.

 

Only you are ranting. Read a post b/f accusing others. I said some Tamils are okay with their language being 2nd to English. Some =/= all.It's a matter of observation or opinion from what I see online that some Tamils are okay with their  language becoming secondary to English, and not Hindi. Some of you say that Hindi imposition may erode Tamil langauge, which may be true, and that can be a fair worry, but I rarely see the same about English,  see your own post below 

22 hours ago, Vilander said:

for Hindi speaking states if there is benefit in making Hindi as medium of instruction in higher education ( if it allows better scientists/scholars to be produced) it should be done. For non hindi speaking states its better to let English be the medium for higher education as changing it to Hindi is not making it a 'local' language. Hindi is more alien to many in non Hindi speaking states than English, so there is no value in it. 

Notice it yourself from what you wrote. You don't want the raising of Tamil-medium higher education institutions in your state even as an option in your state. All though I can't speak for all of us, in my opinion Marathis on the other hand would love to have higher education institutions as an option, that is my observation from living hear my entire life. Hindi, English, other languages are good courses to take in higher level optionally but they aren't necessary in higher ed and certainly aren't necessary as the sole medium of higher ed. 

 

That to me is an example of you accepting your MT having 2nd class status to English, while it is an example of my arguing for my MT having parity with English and all other Indian languages. 

 

I also think it's funny that you feel entitled to speak for other non-Hindi states as well, considering neither I nor the other poster who is advocating higher education option in mother tongues is from the Hindi states.  

Edited September 19, 2019 by Moochad

[Tibarn]

22 hours ago, Vilander said:

just curious what do you see Hindis role to  be ? in future.

 

Be sole language used in Indian government communications ? What is it  - its not preferred language of instruction in education from the looks of it.

 

 

What I think will happen? At status quo both Hindi and English will remain official languages of government communications. 

 

3 language formula continues.

 

English remains de facto medium of education,

 

Hindi de facto lingua franca when traveling around India/migrating to other states.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Tibarn

[Vilander]

37 minutes ago, Moochad said:

Notice it yourself from what you wrote. You don't want the raising of Tamil-medium higher education institutions in your state even as an option in your state.

dude who will write all the text books and research needed in Tamil ? its not practical and a pipe dream.

[Vilander]

38 minutes ago, Moochad said:

I also think it's funny that you feel entitled to speak for other non-Hindi states as well, considering neither I nor the other poster who is advocating higher education option in mother tongues is from the Hindi states.  

opinion in democracy is not entitlement but law. you have several issues moochad, i do not care enough to converse. 

[Vilander]

17 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

What I think will happen? At status quo both Hindi and English will remain official languages of government communications. 

 

3 language formula continues.

 

English remains de facto medium of education,

 

Hindi de facto lingua franca when traveling around India/migrating to other states.

this is status quo what is the whole point of bjp trying to weaken itself here its stupid imo for them to rake this up when clearly they win nothing from it.

[Vilander]

46 minutes ago, Moochad said:

in my opinion Marathis on the other hand would love to have higher education institutions as an option

as an option ? this option exists in TN as well in certain collegiate programs. Not as a mandate. If a regime mandates tamil as sole language or primary language of instruction in Engineering lol.. know what you are talking about. Are you saying Marathis love their language so much that they will study Engineering in Marathi hehe.. its not possible unless there is an ecology of text books and research, does any Indian language have that ? why waste the advantage that India has with its English ? 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Vilander

[Tibarn]

On 9/18/2019 at 1:24 AM, The Dark Horse said:

I don't have problems with it, but is it practically feasible?

It is very feasible, consider this:

Every one of the top 20 countries by GDP per capita has the default medium of education as what the majority of people speak in those countries.

 

That applies to 1 language countries Japan- Japanese, Germany- German, Korea- Korean, France- French

and to multilingual countries like Belgium and Switzerland. 

 

Some of these countries have optional English medium universities/courses for their students to learn English if they need it.

 

As long as India adopts the US model of public universities/colleges being under state government jurisdiction, it is easily possible to create an option for people to get University education in their MTs.

 

It is certainly more practical than thinking that a country with 2 lakh people who speak English as a first language is best served by making English the exclusive medium of instruction of all higher education. As of the 2001 census, even after 50+ only 10% of Indians understand English to some level, and even there, many of those don't actually speak English, but rather bizarre dialects like Hinglish, Tanglish, Kanglish 

 

Quote

Studying in a local language at school and then going to IIT or AIMS or even regional colleges, these students face a lot of struggles to suddenly switch to English.

Yes, that was a central point of my post. Anybody who learns in their MT is disadvantaged when they try for admissions in higher education courses like Medicine for example:

 

If they don't score well enough in English, something not essential for either learning or practicing medicine, they won't get admission. 

 

If they do get admission, they have an impaired ability to succeed in the course, as their brain thinks in their MT. 

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Even if it's local languages are the medium in graduation, they will struggle communicating between states' people.

That's not really an argument against it, since no one said remove all Hindi or English courses from circulation. One doesn't need to earn an entire education in English to understand it. Some supplementary courses, for those who require it, in secondary or tertiary education is more than enough for someone to get competent.  

 

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Added to this, soft skills are required in English for a decent paying job. 

 

That is a bit of a canard. That is only in some fields and some parts of India, and it also depends on what one defines as a decent paying job. 

 

English has shown value in say the IT industry in India, but the IT industry is just one part of the entire service-sector/tertiary-sector economy. A field like Medicine or Biology(my field) the use of English is either unnecessary or overblown. That's applies even more for the primary and secondary sector of the economy, although neither of those two depend much on education.  

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People who vouch for local language education themselves educate themselves or their children in convent schools or even abroad.

Even if that were true, it would only make sense. When in India the only medium of higher education is English, it is most rational for them to get their and their kids education in that medium. That is no more hypocritical than people who claim to love their MTs, but then advocate higher-education being exclusively in English, IMO. 

 

In the current educational environment, the most rational option for anyone in India who has dreams of getting a higher education is to opt for English medium over their MT medium even in primary school. 

[Gollum]

Do our regional languages have the required technical jargon to enable higher education in MTs? Doesn't English have a dominant advantage at least in our setting? 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gollum

[Moochad]

 

Quote

dude who will write all the text books and research needed in Tamil ? its not practical and a pipe dream.

as an option ? this option exists in TN as well in certain collegiate programs. Not as a mandate. If a regime mandates tamil as sole language or primary language of instruction in Engineering lol.. know what you are talking about. Are you saying Marathis love their language so much that they will study Engineering in Marathi hehe.. its not possible unless there is an ecology of text books and research, does any Indian language have that ? why waste the advantage that India has with its English 

Good to know that something which is difficult should be quit before even attempting. Marathis love it enough to understand that there isn't some inherent deficiency in it and that in certain fields like Med it should be preferred within Maharashtra. 

 

Fair point, there are some underfunded diploma mills in some places which teach engineering. I'm sure there can't be properly funded and accreditation higher education in Indian languages. Good to know. 

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opinion in democracy is not entitlement but law. you have several issues moochad, i do not care enough to converse. 

Not as many as you Zoolander, please refrain from doing so in the future. 

 

[Tibarn]

57 minutes ago, Vilander said:

this is status quo what is the whole point of bjp trying to weaken itself here its stupid imo for them to rake this up when clearly they win nothing from it.

I don't know what their political calculations are. I guess the states they are targeting to grow right now: WB, OD, TG they don't view it as harmful.  

[Tibarn]

This is slightly off topic to this thread, but I remember talking about this with some people on this forum a long time ago, but it turns out it was already made 

 

Unified Indian Script

https://bharatiscript.com/

 

It is apparently completed, but I wonder if it will end as a fun project or if someone will adopt it as an issue/policy

edit

Here is a video from their website

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Tibarn