beetle Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: For me it is not a crime from Zomato to protest against the hate behaviour of this Hindu guy, but I appreciate this behaviour. And Zomato has done nothing to discriminate against the Hindu community, but still they have been constantly blamed for this. People find one fault or another to put blames on others. In this case, it is the allegation of brownie points, which is good enough to boycott Zomato and start a campaign against it. They have been blamed for hypocricy. And yes...they chose to get some brownie points without thinking it will back bite. I am glad it was the owner and no one will lose a job because it was not a smart buisness move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, someone said: With your logic, certain religion book has been co-opted and used by terrorists , so should be ban that? You should be more tolerant and accept ppl beliefs including the right to be a "Hindu" publicly. Nothing wrong with a "Rudra" form of Hanuman God. Again, you are fighting a strawman battle with me. I'm not advocating a "ban" of anything. I'm saying I find the usage of that particular portayal of Hanuman distasteful. To use a KKK example as my friend @G_B_ did, its not that the Christian Cross is offensive, its when the KKK choose to burn it to threaten non-white people, that it becomes offensive. Its the usage, not the image that I protest. Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 44 minutes ago, someone said: But are all those saffron colors, pictures necessary in Hinduism? The answer is No, and that's the beauty of Hinduism. You don't need to believe in any particular god, or books or way of life, to be Hindu. Nothing is "compulsory" here. Yet, this "beauty" has turned out to be a "weakness". As certain minority, libtards, assert themselves and ask us to follow their version of Hinduism and not express ourselves freely. Compare that to other religions, where they have one fixed book, so any single person can always justify their actions, beliefs using it. Hinduism is different, thus many have used it to control us, and explains our lack of unity.... I don't agree with this allegation that Liberals only criticise Hindu religion and they are ok with Muslims and their practices. This is totally a false accusation. Actually, when we criticise Muslims, then they also come up with this same allegation that liberals only criticise the Muslims and not the fanatic saffron brigade. Same is with the religious Christians who claim that Liberals/Atheists have criticised the bible/Christianity 100s of times more than Islam or Hinduism or any other religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: I don't agree with this allegation that Liberals only criticise Hindu religion and they are ok with Muslims and their practices. This is totally a false accusation. Actually, when we criticise Muslims, then they also come up with this same allegation that liberals only criticise the Muslims and not the fanatic saffron brigade. Same is with the religious Christians who claim that Liberals/Atheists have criticised the bible/Christianity 100s of times more than Islam or Hinduism or any other religion. You don't have the foggiest idea about lubtards in India, so don't equate your Islamic RW to Mainstream Hindus in India. sandeep and nikred 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, beetle said: They have been blamed for hypocricy. And yes...they chose to get some brownie points without thinking it will back bite. I am glad it was the owner and no one will lose a job because it was not a smart buisness move. Which hypocricy? Was this the hypocricy that he stood against the bigotry and hatred behaviour of that Hindu guy? In fact, if the "PREVENTION OF COMMUNAL AND TARGETED VIOLENCE Bill" had passed, then automatically this Hindy guy would have been sent to the prison for spreading the hatred, along with all those who have been asking for a boycott of Zomato above. Civilised societies need such laws against the hate speeches and actions. US had to pass the direct laws against the hatred attitude against the black people, and only then they were able to finally get rid of that white superiority garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Off course, I feel the same for Kirpan too. I feel the same for the weapons law in US which they consider for their culture as holy as their religion. No problem with harmless Sikh turban or beard or kara. But Kirpan brings fear to the others and make them uncomfortable. Things should change with time and reforms should be introduced. Even if laws does not ban some thing, but social norms in a civilised societies do guide us to avoid use of things which could bring fears to the others. You are uncomfortable with religion itself. People are not going to change their behavior to make you comfortable. Be more tolerant towards people who choose to follow religion without hurting others.Otherwise you are no better than a fanatic. Wearing a kirpan or saffron clothes or even a sticker is not hurting anyone if they choose to believe so.walking around naked like some jain babas or with ash of dead people smeared on their naked bodies with naga babas doesn't hurt anyone. If they want to see danger...ever saying Ram ram is going to seem like danger. People can't live their lives making others comfortable at the cost of their wishes because there is no end to what makes others uncomfortable. Yesterday a same sex couple was asked to leave in a Bangaluru club because others were uncomfortable. Some people are uncomfotable seeing women wear non traditional clothes or riding bikes...where does one stop? Edited August 2, 2019 by beetle Alam_dar, someone and sergio04 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: I don't agree with this allegation that Liberals only criticise Hindu religion and they are ok with Muslims and their practices. This is totally a false accusation. Actually, when we criticise Muslims, then they also come up with this same allegation that liberals only criticise the Muslims and not the fanatic saffron brigade. Same is with the religious Christians who claim that Liberals/Atheists have criticised the bible/Christianity 100s of times more than Islam or Hinduism or any other religion. Who are these liberals criticizing muslims in India? someone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: You don't have the foggiest idea about lubtards in India, so don't equate your Islamic RW to Mainstream Hindus in India. I believe there is a lot of difference between Muslim extremists and the Hindu mainstream. Problem is this that extremist Hindus are following the footsteps of extremist Muslims, while the mainstream Hindus are not showing the ability to stop this bigotry by the fanatic Hindus. Even this silence will be counted as a crime. Only due to this we are watching such incidents happening in India which were absent in the modern Indian history. And neither Hindus nor Hinduism are infallible angels. We have already seen that extremist Hindus introduced the caste system, while mainstream Hindus or the Hindu religion itself showed no ability to stop and end this caste system. Result was this that this crime had been practised for over two thousands of years, till the modern and liberal western world made it impossible in this century for Hindus to practice this caste system any more. Same is true with the Islamic slavery, which was finally abolished due to the criticism of the modern liberal western societies. It is the right of the liberal world to criticise any religion, anywhere on this universe. And we give full right to the followers of the religion too to criticise the liberalism and we welcome it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: We have already seen that extremist Hindus introduced the caste system, while mainstream Hindus or the Hindu religion itself showed no ability to stop and end this caste system Man....don't embarass yourself. You haven't the foggiest idea about hinduism. As bad as it is,Caste system has been a part of hinduism forever. Why do you argue about things you have no idea about? coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, beetle said: You are uncomfortable with religion itself. People are not going to change their behavior to make you comfortable. Be more tolerant towards people who choose to follow religion without hurting others.Otherwise you are no better than a fanatic. Wearing a kirpan or saffron clothes or even a sticker is not hurting anyone if they choose to believe so.walking around naked like some jain babas or with ash of dead people smeared on their naked bodies with naga babas doesn't hurt anyone. If they want to see danger...ever saying Ram ram is going to seem like danger. People can't live their lives making others comfortable at the cost of their wishes because there is no end to what makes others uncomfortable. Yesterday a same sex couple was asked to leave in a Bangaluru club because others were uncomfortable. Some people are uncomfotable seeing women wear non traditional clothes or riding bikes...where does one stop? It is a valid question what should be banned and what should be tolerated and what is totally ok. Weapons should be banned by law. Hindu mainstream community should condemn the extremist Hindus more for using saffron signs and Jai Sri Ram to spread the fears among the minorities. Here comes the social norms i.e. even if law is silent here, but the society has to take notice of this. I am totally ok with naked Sadhus as they are not spreading any fears. Same is with the same sex pairs in the public, while they are neither aggressive nor spreading any fears. Nevertheless, here we will have a clash of liberalism and religion once again. The religions RW will try it's best to snatch away this freedom from the LGBTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Hindu mainstream community should condemn the extremist Hindus more for using saffron signs and Jai Sri Ram to spread the fears among the minorities. Here comes the social norms i.e. even if law is silent here, but the society has to take notice of this. Does that mean people should stop using saffron or saying jai sri Ram just because some one is using it for something wrong? The problem is everyone's comfort level is different . You feel uncomfortable seeing saffron or Hearing Sri Ram...others feel uncomfortable seeing naked baba and someone else feels two women dancing together is going to bring our culture and traditions come crashing down and they have to be stopped. Some people may feel uncomfortable in the company of women in burkhas. Why do you feel your discomfort is the justified discomfort and others are not? Some people may be terrified of seeing naked people walking around while others may be scared of seeing gay people behaving like normal people amongst us....or seeing women in black coveralls . Their discomfort is as real as yours and just like the naked babas or the gay couples or the burkha clad women couldn't be bothered about people who feel discomfort....so should people wearing saffron or saying Jai Sri Ram ignore people who feel discomfort. Edited August 2, 2019 by beetle sergio04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: only then they were able to finally get rid of that white superiority garbage. Laws are never enough "to get rid of that garbage". Pakistan in theory has laws in place for protecting minorities - we all know how that works in real life. Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, beetle said: Does that mean people should stop using saffron or saying jai sri Ram just because some one is using it for something wrong? The problem is everyone's comfort level is different . You feel uncomfortable seeing saffron or Hearing Sri Ram...others feel uncomfortable seeing naked baba and someone else feels two women dancing together is going to bring our culture and traditions come crashing down and they have to be stopped. Some people may feel uncomfortable in the company of women in burkhas. Why do you feel your discomfort is the justified discomfort and others are not? Some people may be terrified of seeing naked people walking around while others may be scared of seeing gay people behaving like normal people amongst us....or seeing women in black coveralls . Their discomfort is as real as yours and just like the naked babas or the gay couples or the burkha clad women couldn't be bothered about people who feel discomfort....so should people wearing saffron or saying Jai Sri Ram ignore people who feel discomfort. It is simple that the discomfort is directly proportional to the level of fear and hate and aggressiveness against the others. This Standard is already present for us to follow. That is why modern societies are making such laws, despite all claiming to have different levels of discomfort about the hate speech and hate behaviours. Even if these things are not banned, but still we should try our best to reduce the factor of fears related to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Which hypocricy? Was this the hypocricy that he stood against the bigotry and hatred behaviour of that Hindu guy? In fact, if the "PREVENTION OF COMMUNAL AND TARGETED VIOLENCE Bill" had passed, then automatically this Hindy guy would have been sent to the prison for spreading the hatred, along with all those who have been asking for a boycott of Zomato above. Civilised societies need such laws against the hate speeches and actions. US had to pass the direct laws against the hatred attitude against the black people, and only then they were able to finally get rid of that white superiority garbage. You have your agenda so you will not see the hypocricy . As for the act..only an ignorant biased person with no knowledge about the country will support the act. Unlike blacks,the minorities in this country were not slaves forcibly brought in from other lands with no rights . Minorities in India have always been part of this country with equal or more than equal rights in the constitution . Muslims were the rulers over a large part of India for centuries with a history of ruthless behavior and forced conversions.They also participated equally in the horrible violence that occured at the time of partition snd post partition.That does not look like a suppressed community who have not been given equal rights. So take your stupid comparision to America . You are possibly the most ignorant person I have argued with on icf. Edited August 2, 2019 by beetle sergio04, sandeep, diga and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 12 hours ago, Alam_dar said: While contrary to Hindus, Sikhs were allowed to consume the meat. Which madarsa do you go to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, beetle said: You have your agenda so you will not see the hypocricy . As for the act..only an ignorant biased person with no knowledge about the country will support the act. Unlike blacks,the minorities in this country were not slaves forcibly brought in from other lands with no rights . Minorities in India have always been part of this country with equal or more than equal rights in the constitution . Muslims were the rulers over a large part of India for centuries with a history of ruthless behavior and forced conversions.They also participated equally in the horrible violence that occured at the time of partition snd post partition.That does not look like a suppressed community who have not been given equal rights. So take your stupid comparision to America . You are possibly the most ignorant person I have argued with on icf. For you I am an ignorant person, while in my opinion you are reacting emotional to this issue which is bringing us to two different angels of looking the same thing. For example, I believe that Dalits lived much worse in India than the black people in America. The modern laws of liberal world not only helped the black people of America to get rid of white supremacy, but also the laws by the modern Secular and liberal India about the Dalits, helped them to get rid of the discrimination. And for me it is not even the past, but it is the present and future trends which I am worried about. I absolutely don't blame the present generation of Hindus for the crimes against the Dalits by their earlier generations (although I do blame Hinduism as religion for not having the ability to stop this discrimination for thousands of years). But I will blame the present Hindu generation, if they do something wrong today. I strongly support any one who want to stop the Muslim extremism. But this Muslim extremism should not be used as an excuse for imposing your own extremism. Moderate behaviour is always the right path, while going beyond limits will always be condemned and criticised. Edited August 2, 2019 by Alam_dar diga and sergio04 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, Stradlater said: Which madarsa do you go to? After becoming an atheist, I believe my temple, my madrassa, my god, all lie within my head. I get first time this feeling of being able to do freethinking without any external effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Alam_dar said: For example, I believe that Dalits lived much worse in India than the black people in America. Absolutely agree. Everyone agrees and so do the govts for a long time. Dalits have a very strong act called the SCST act that protects them .They are the only group that needs protection in India because of long term discrimination and marginalization. They also get strong reservation in almost every field and other benefits. Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Alam_dar said: For example, I believe that Dalits lived much worse in India than the black people in America. The modern laws of liberal world not only helped the black people of America to get rid of white supremacy, but also the laws by the modern Secular and liberal India about the Dalits, helped them to get rid of the discrimination. And for me it is not even the past, but it is the present and future trends which I am worried about. I absolutely don't blame the present generation of Hindus for the crimes against the Dalits by their earlier generations (although I do blame Hinduism as religion for not having the ability to stop this discrimination for thousands of years). But I will blame the present Hindu generation, if they do something wrong today. Firstly, there is a difference between discrimination and exploitation. We don't have discrimination, but exploitation of people on the basics of caste. We have jati which is not a hierarchy system, but many turned it into caste with hierarchy so that people could exploit others. Yet, we never had the same issues as West. They didn't allow woman to vote, asked if blacks have souls, killed and converted others. Its foolish for you to equate two very different things as one same. And today, in our country, ordinary Hindus are made to feel guilty, and pay the price, for past crimes of social exploitation committed by forefathers. But what about the past crimes of Muslims who massacred ppl? Or Christians who looted country, why their present generation are not made to feel the guilt? And that's what I mean is whitewashing, and many are champions of liberals. sergio04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarcastic Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 On 7/31/2019 at 3:28 PM, Singh bling said: The guy actually exposed the double standard of Zomato Zomato should not refund Muslims if food is non halaal The guy says he ordered halal food and he got non-halal food. Zomato should not reimburse if the food is halal but delivered by a Hindu. Zomato should reimburse if the food is non-halal. Not getting the food ordered deserves reimbursement. There is no discrimination there. It is a choice of food and it needs to be respected. Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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