After 20 T20Is, Dhoni 356 runs@24, SR 105, Pant 325 runs@20 SR of 123

[ShoonyaSifar]

Number after 20 T20s for Dhoni and Pant. 

 

If you go by all the hue and cry, it would appear as if Pant has been responsible for dragging the team down (which is true to some extent). But did we hear even a noise back in the late 2000s when Dhoni was absolutely abysmal in T20Is.

 

If Dhoni's IPL record kept him in the team as captain, Pant has a more stellar IPL record.

 

So why exactly is Pant under so much pump when his predecessor got away fairly lightly with  similar record? Is sucking as a batsman while being defensive is better than getting out while trying to hit 6s? Which approach is preferable for T20s?

[New guy]

Pretty sure Dhoni had 0 50s and Pant already has 2

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

42 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

So why exactly is Pant under so much pump when his predecessor got away fairly lightly with  similar record?

1. Dhoni was already an ODI regular by that point. Pant hasn't yet sealed his place in LOIs.
2. Dhoni had already lead India to a World T20 win as captain. Pant is being picked purely for his batting.
3. Due to 1 and 2, guys like Karthik and Parthiv weren't seen as competition to Dhoni, but non-performance of Pant means people want to see new players given a chance.
4. Middle order with Yuvraj and Raina was very strong back then, hence was able to hide Dhoni. Our current middle order situation means Pant was expected to play a much more important role in the middle order.
5. T20Is were played few and far between back then and didn't mean as much, so not as many people cared about Dhoni's T20I batting stats.
6. More pressure on Pant due to so few matches left to the World T20 next year and impatience growing from India's lack of ICC silverware in 6 years.

[cricketfan28]

It was a different time. Now we have more options to evaluate.

[putrevus]

Dhoni is the most overrated T20 player, he is the most useless t20 player in my book.If I am not wrong he scored his first T20 fifty after ten years .

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

1. Dhoni was already an ODI regular by that point. Pant hasn't yet sealed his place in LOIs.
2. Dhoni had already lead India to a World T20 win as captain. Pant is being picked purely for his batting.
3. Due to 1 and 2, guys like Karthik and Parthiv weren't seen as competition to Dhoni, but non-performance of Pant means people want to see new players given a chance.
4. Middle order with Yuvraj and Raina was very strong back then, hence was able to hide Dhoni. Our current middle order situation means Pant was expected to play a much more important role in the middle order.
5. T20Is were played few and far between back then and didn't mean as much, so not as many people cared about Dhoni's T20I batting stats.
6. More pressure on Pant due to so few matches left to the World T20 next year and impatience growing from India's lack of ICC silverware in 6 years.

These two take the cake. Who has been mostly responsible for the lack of silverware?

 

Dhoni captained us in each of T20 WCs since 2007 (where teams were still experimenting). EVeryone else was thrown out, but Dhoni was a constant despite sukcing in the format. Only because he was winning IPLs. 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Dhoni captained us in each of T20 WCs since 2007 (where teams were still experimenting). EVeryone else was thrown out, but Dhoni was a constant despite sukcing in the format. Only because he was winning IPLs. 

There were only two World T20s India played in Dhoni's first 20 T20I matches that you're referring to.

[ShoonyaSifar]

5 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

There were only two World T20s India played in Dhoni's first 20 T20I matches that you're referring to.

And Dhoni sucked in both of them (like in his entire T20 career). Yet remained in the team because ‘CSK was doing well in IPL’.

[cricketfan28]

how many 30s did dhoni made in t20s ?

Edited September 23, 2019 by cricketfan28

[ShoonyaSifar]

10 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

how many 30s did dhoni made in t20s ?

18 30s in 85 innings, ~20%

 

Pant has 4 in 19 innings, again ~20%

 

[Suhaan]

Dhoni was a great oneday cricketer in his heydays

But even in those days he was below average in t20s

Maybe just because we had the likes of Yuvi,raina ,his struggles weren't exposed

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

16 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

And Dhoni sucked in both of them (like in his entire T20 career). Yet remained in the team because ‘CSK was doing well in IPL’.

India did well. India won the first World T20. There was no reason to remove Dhoni from the captaincy for the second.

[ShoonyaSifar]

2 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

India did well. India won the first World T20. There was no reason to remove Dhoni from the captaincy for the second.

India is doing well even now. So why all this public scrutiny on Pant’s place.

 

Dhoni sucked in the 2nd T20 WC, including the drama of getting the entire team to a press conference to show there was no rift. Should have been sacked there and then.

[vvvslaxman]

Don't like Dhoni as a T20 international player. But this comparison is not fair as T20 was in its infancy stage. Dhoni's problem in T20 was more to do with lack of time available to get set like he does in the one dayers.  Pant's issue is shot selection and execution.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

14 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

India is doing well even now. So why all this public scrutiny on Pant’s place.

India isn't doing well in ICC tournaments. Compared to 2007, we're in a much stronger position compared to the rest of the countries, yet we haven't won an ICC tournament in 6 years. People can't turn a blind eye to that middle order anymore just because the top 3 are getting runs nearly every time. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Just now, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

India isn't doing well in ICC tournaments. Compared to 2007, we're in a much stronger position compared to the rest of the countries, yet we haven't won an ICC tournament in 6 years. People can't turn a blind eye to that middle order anymore just because the top 3 are getting runs nearly every time. 

and Pant isn't responsible for that. The selfish over the hill oldie who is mostly responsible for this rot is the one whom the current TM worships as the savior.

 

On top 3 getting runs all the time, well thats because they never give opportunities to any one else, hog all the batting during bilaterals and prelim stages of ICC tournament and choke during the knock out stages. Do not blame an undercooked middle order for not standing up.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

3 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

and Pant isn't responsible for that.

Pant is responsible for himself. He's being played at No. 4 so the expectations for that position will be different than for a No. 7.

[velu]

if dhonis iT20 stats are the standard for a wk batsmen , then pant scores 110 marks  

[ShoonyaSifar]

19 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Pant is responsible for himself. He's being played at No. 4 so the expectations for that position will be different than for a No. 7.

You keep changing the goalposts in every post of yours. But none of your arguments invalidate the stats in the title of the thread. Thanks

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

On 9/26/2019 at 10:46 AM, ShoonyaSifar said:

You keep changing the goalposts in every post of yours. But none of your arguments invalidate the stats in the title of the thread. Thanks

I literally posted 6 different points as to why Pant is "under so much pump when his predecessor got away fairly lightly with  similar record". This refers to point 4.

 

Maybe you shouldn't have asked a question when you didn't expect a serious answer and were just looking to garner more sympathy for Pant.