Who is the most fearsome fast bowler you have seen

[Muloghonto]

9 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

@Muloghonto 30 yrs ago, the same spell would have been called express and fiery. in the absence of a speed gun. But we do know that they bowled at a max pace of 146k's. B

146 is express and fiery. A few people here creating a category for 150kph does not reflect in the lingo of the commentators and analysts. 

[Muloghonto]

16 hours ago, express bowling said:

Discussing speed readings is great fun for fast bowling fans and fast bowlers alike.

 

And I do it a lot.

 

But speed gun readings have been notoriously inconsistent over the years. And it used to happen far more often till the last decade in international matches and still happens in domestic and 2nd rung matches.

 

In the 2010s, with regular use of high speed cameras, we get accurate speeds from sites like Cricviz.  

 

But I would take most speeds recorded from 1975 to 2010 with a pinch of salt.

 

Unless two pacers bowl in the same match, it is difficult to compare their speed readings if we are taking speed gun readings.

 

 

 

 

And I will take the word of batsmen who’ve faced both bowlers in question 100 times out of 100 over some tv watching fan. 

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

And I will take the word of batsmen who’ve faced both bowlers in question 100 times out of 100 over some tv watching fan. 

 

And you should.

 

But where will you find batsmen who have faced both Holding and Starc bowling at their peak pace  or both Roberts and Bumrah bowling at their peak pace in actual matches. ?

 

After all ... the question that keeps on arising is how the speeds of the current quicks compare with the 1970s and 1980s quicks.

 

There was an interesting interaction between Swann, Gavaskar, Richards and Roberts on our recently concluded tour to the WI.  Swann said to the 3 past greats that modern day pacers say that they are much quicker than the pacers of your era. What do you have to say ?

 

Not even one of the 3 greats refuted this claim ... but said that in their era,  there was no limitation on the number of bouncers that can be bowled ... no helmets or poor helmets ... poor protective gear ... no chance to practice against bowling machines etc. So, the pacers seemed more fearsome.

 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

And I will take the word of batsmen who’ve faced both bowlers in question 100 times out of 100 over some tv watching fan. 

Batsmen wouldn't know what pace they faced. Like yesterday, Shami and Umesh both were around 140 but if it was in the 80s without speed guns, they would have been calling 150 kph bowling spell.

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

146 is express and fiery. A few people here creating a category for 150kph does not reflect in the lingo of the commentators and analysts. 

146 is fast but not express.  It's not people here but you who said pacers like Marshal, holding, Sylvester Joseph, roberts used to bowl 95 mph whole day. 95 mph is 152 kph. 

 

And I had said it's not humanely possible to bowl 95 mph whole day. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

146 is express and fiery.

 

I strongly agree personally.

 

Quote

A few people here creating a category for 150kph does not reflect in the lingo of the commentators and analysts. 

 

That depends upon who the commentator or analyst is.

 

1)  Bumrah was bowling 138 to 148 k and Shami was bowling 136 to 146 k. Hayden said that the Indians are bowling 140 and not 160. So, the Aussies would have no problem. Just as he said it, as luck would have it, a Bumrah bouncer, bowled around 145 k, hit an Aussie batter on the shoulder and Hayden was forced to shut up.

 

2)  M.Clarke and Warne were praising the high speeds of Bumrah bowling 135 k to 150 k and Shami bowling 133 k to 147 k in Australia.

 

3)  Gavaskar is impressed by the extra speed of Ngidi bowling 129 to 140 k in this series ... but did not talk about the extra speed of Shami bowling 135 k to 146 k in this series, although that topic came up repeatedly.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Can't trust batters ' judgement for sheer airspeed of a bowler. Batters can get hurried by the extra lift certain bowlers generate (think McGrath/Ambrose) who don't register as high in the speed gun. Or by a bowler getting late dipping swing. Batters can handle floaty full length stuff very easily. I remember mushfiq smashing a  150 kph by Varun Aaron but he probably would have been hurried by a 135 kph back of a length ball by Stuart Clark because of the bounce he could generate . Does not mean Aaron isn't faster than Clark.

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Can't trust batters ' judgement for sheer airspeed of a bowler. Batters can get hurried by the extra lift certain bowlers generate (think McGrath/Ambrose) who don't register as high in the speed gun. Or by a bowler getting late dipping swing. Batters can handle floaty full length stuff very easily. I remember mushfiq smashing a  150 kph by Varun Aaron but he probably would have been hurried by a 135 kph back of a length ball by Stuart Clark because of the bounce he could generate . Does not mean Aaron isn't faster than Clark.

 

Very good post 

But it must also be said that just speed in the air should not be the sole parameter for calling a pacer quick. Ability to extract life out of pitches is important too.

 

[Straight Drive]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Very good post 

But it must also be said that just speed in the air should not be the sole parameter for calling a pacer quick. Ability to extract life out of pitches is important too.

 

Yes, Morkel is a fine example of the point you make. He used to generate extra pace even though if he pitched slightly filler. The bowlers who put extra power of shoulders do get a better reward than the others who just bowl fast through air at different trajectory.

 

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

146 is fast but not express.  It's not people here but you who said pacers like Marshal, holding, Sylvester Joseph, roberts used to bowl 95 mph whole day. 95 mph is 152 kph. 

 

And I had said it's not humanely possible to bowl 95 mph whole day. 

Don’t talk nonsense. First, this express vs fast category is created by you and a few other armchair idiots, not an actual category. Second , I didn’t say that about ANY other bowler except Mikey holding and marshall. 

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

. 95 mph is 152 kph. 

 

 

 

95 mph is 152.9 kph ... that is almost 153 kph.

[rkt.india]

55 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Don’t talk nonsense. First, this express vs fast category is created by you and a few other armchair idiots, not an actual category. Second , I didn’t say that about ANY other bowler except Mikey holding and marshall. 

Many commentators say they are fast but not express, so, it is not just some who say that.

[rkt.india]

29 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

95 mph is 152.9 kph ... that is almost 153 kph.

Exactly. 

[putrevus]

19 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Off course, the Windies greats are always in race for anything related to Pace bowling.

 

Andy Roberts hit David Hookes on jaw and he had to be in hospital during test for few days. After that injury David Hookes never batted with same confidence against everyone, not just Roberts. Usually a bowler would make job of his bowling partner easier to t take wickets, but Roberts made task off picking Hooks wicket easier for all pace bowlers. Such was Roberts impact on careers.

 

Having said that Sean Abbott a bowler with far lesser pace struck the worst blow on cricket field ever delivered by a bowler just couple of years back. Also sometimes it is not about how fast one bowls, but the area which the bowler targets. Not saying About did it purposely but Thomson would purposely look to knock off the jaw or head causing severe damage. Thomson was most agreesaive in that approach and with the pace at which he bowled it was just a horror situation for batsmen.

 

Thomson used to  put that fear of death  purposely and with intent into the batsmen. That's why I feel he was the most brutal pace bowler alongside Croft

Thomson also was one of the least skilled as fast bowler IMHO.Once helmets and protection came along with him losing pace, he was never effective as both as threatening bowler and also wicket taker.

 

Thomson sure put fear of god in England batsmen in 1974-75 before helmets came into picture.You  are right Guys like Andy Roberts and Malcolm Marshall kept hitting batsman even after helmets came into picture.Andy lloyd never played test cricket again after getting hit by Marshall .Those WI guys if they played today would keep hurting these modern day batsmen who rarely watch ball.

[Straight Drive]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Thomson also was one of the least skilled as fast bowler IMHO.Once helmets and protection came along with him losing pace, he was never effective as both as threatening bowler and also wicket taker.

 

Thomson sure put fear of god in England batsmen in 1974-75 before helmets came into picture.You  are right Guys like Andy Roberts and Malcolm Marshall kept hitting batsman even after helmets came into picture.Andy lloyd never played test cricket again after getting hit by Marshall .Those WI guys if they played today would keep hurting these modern day batsmen who rarely watch ball.

Charlie Griffith was another WI Pacer who ended career of captain Nari Contractor as Contractor got hit on the back of head. He was lucky to be alive post that injury.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Straight Drive

[putrevus]

18 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Charlie Griffith was another WI Pacer who ended career of captain Nari Contractor as Contractor got hit on the back of head. He was lucky to be alive post that injury.

You are right.But he was a chucker, his captain Frank Worrell himself loathed him and he gave Contractor his blood too.