Your Playing 11 for the first test in NZ

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

I, being a fast-bowling fan primary, would love to see 4 fast bowlers play along with Jaddu.

 

But if that 4th pacer is Umesh, bowling without the SG ball, I am not sure it adds any material value. I would love it if he proves me wrong though, as it would give us more realistic options.

This is where a fully fit Pandya would have made a reasonably decent selection option in place of Vihari - you could have a lower order of Pandya, Jadeja, Saha/Pant - and have a 4th seamer who can be handy on his day, or at a minimum, reduce the workload on the 3 front-line pacers with 10+ decent overs on a bowling day.  

 

Given Pandya's serious injury though, its better if he gets fully fit first, we need him too badly for white ball cricket to risk him too early in tests. 

[cricketpitch]

It is funny when people bring some random stats to justify dropping a guy who found himself picked in all Test teams of the year in 2019 and averages 67 to accommodate someone who has 0 runs in Test cricket and has not proven anything so far at the highest level. This can only happen in India. You are talking as if there are teams who can play moving ball very well. Remember England were bowled out for 50 odd in New Zealand last year while they are considered one of the better teams against the moving ball. So stop giving that as an excuse. Mayank has done great and deserves to be picked for both the Tests. We cannot ruin careers like this. What happens if Gill is picked and flops in both Tests? 

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, cricketpitch said:

It is funny when people bring some random stats to justify dropping a guy who found himself picked in all Test teams of the year in 2019 and averages 67 to accommodate someone who has 0 runs in Test cricket and has not proven anything so far at the highest level. This can only happen in India. You are talking as if there are teams who can play moving ball very well. Remember England were bowled out for 50 odd in New Zealand last year while they are considered one of the better teams against the moving ball. So stop giving that as an excuse. Mayank has done great and deserves to be picked for both the Tests. We cannot ruin careers like this. What happens if Gill is picked and flops in both Tests? 

While Mayank's technique still looks full of holes - who's talking about dropping him? He's the incumbent opener, and will be for now.  

[cricketpitch]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

While Mayank's technique still looks full of holes - who's talking about dropping him? He's the incumbent opener, and will be for now.  

Look at a lot of posts in this thread and the others in the forum. It is directed at the people who say we need to plan for the future by ignoring the present. None of the options we have have impeccable technique. 

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, cricketpitch said:

Look at a lot of posts in this thread and the others in the forum. It is directed at the people who say we need to plan for the future by ignoring the present. None of the options we have have impeccable technique. 

Don't read too much into that - fanbois are always going to be seduced by the next new 'name'.  

 

Its the Kuch nayaa laao syndrome.

[Global.Baba]

here is my X1 
 

Shaw

Aggarwal

Pujara

Kohli

Gill
Vihari

Pant 

Ashwin

Ishant

Shami

Bumrah 

Saha for Pant and Rahane for Gill will pretty much be what the Tm will chose.

 

Ashwin or Jadeja  now that can go either way.

 

 

[Vilander]

On 2/13/2020 at 11:32 PM, Vijy said:

what we will see from this idiotic TM:

 

Vihari (sacrificial lamb)

Agarwal (won't be discarded despite suspect technical ability against moving balls)

Chepu

Rat

Rahane (because of seniority)

Saha (better keeper, but batting has gone down the drain)

Jaddu

Ashwin (expect TM to justify it using Ashwin's "batting" ability)

Ummi (should be Saini, since Ummi is a spraygun overseas)

Shami

Bumrah (will probably be overbowled/injured and will devolve into trundler).

Why are you so negative ??

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, cricketpitch said:

It is funny when people bring some random stats to justify dropping a guy who found himself picked in all Test teams of the year in 2019 and averages 67 to accommodate someone who has 0 runs in Test cricket and has not proven anything so far at the highest level. This can only happen in India. You are talking as if there are teams who can play moving ball very well. Remember England were bowled out for 50 odd in New Zealand last year while they are considered one of the better teams against the moving ball. So stop giving that as an excuse. Mayank has done great and deserves to be picked for both the Tests. We cannot ruin careers like this. What happens if Gill is picked and flops in both Tests? 

 

Mayank is in a similar situation that Kuldeep finds himself in.

 

Their performances in shorter formats and 2nd rung games are being used to justify their non-selection or proposed non-selection in test matches ... despite superlative performances in actual test matches they played just before this one.

 

And Mayank is not a flop performer in Sena like a Rohit Sharma is. He did well in the test series he played in Australia.

 

Mayank should be the first choice opener in this series. 

 

The realistic question is about Gill or Shaw ... and my choice is Gill because he has done superbly in the just concluded A-tour to NZ.

Edited February 17, 2020 by express bowling

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

The realistic question is about Gill or Shaw ... and my choice is Gill because he has done superbly in the just concluded A-tour to NZ.

Part of me still suspects that Shaw is carrying a shoulder niggle, but knows that this is his chance to make it  back to the team given Rohit's absence.  

[The Dark Horse]

44 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The realistic question is about Gill or Shaw ... and my choice is Gill because he has done superbly in the just concluded A-tour to NZ.

To be realistic, the TM has given Shaw a run and he's done well. There's no reason to drop him to accomodate Gill, unless he's injured. Gill will get his chances.

[Global.Baba]

Why is Gill vs Shaw even a debate. Shaw rightfully is ahead in the pecking order. Before his injury he was the first choice opener before Rohit stepped in and grabbed his chances.

 

[Gollum]

Can't go wrong with which 2 openers we pick since all combos can be logically justified, probably form in net sessions will play a role in deciding that. But if Vihari opens I will be very annoyed, don't go down that route when you have 3 openers in the squad. 

 

Green top if we are inserted in, no matter who we play I will get a chance to bump my 'reverse batting order' thread .

[vvvslaxman]

In case if India bats second and gets to play on a belter, Mayank can fancy himself to score big. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Why is Gill vs Shaw even a debate. Shaw rightfully is ahead in the pecking order. Before his injury he was the first choice opener before Rohit stepped in and grabbed his chances.

 

 

You can't choose good teams by following pecking orders. 

 

When a player is totally absent from the game for more than a year then his current ability and form can't be judged by a 17 month old performance.

 

Pecking order is the biggest impediment to creating a really good team.

 

I am hopeful about Shaw because I rate him highly as a batsman and not because of where he is in the pecking order.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by express bowling

[vvvslaxman]

Gill fans are pissed off that he is not going to be playing. Reason is Gill was already part of the test squad. But Shaw is a replacement of Rohit. So as per their argument Gill should have had the shot as an opener not Shaw. 

[Global.Baba]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

You can't choose good team by following pecking orders. 

 

When a player is totally absent from the game for more than a year then his current ability and form can't be judged by a 17 month old performance.

 

Pecking order is the biggest impediment to creating a really good team.

 

I am hopeful about Shaw because I rate him highly as a batsman and not because of where he is in the pecking order.

 

 

 

 

 

We are not Pak or WI where a player has a great start and then has some kind of  issues and then just gets lost in the shuffle.  We have a perfect system in place that we are all proud of and when there is a system things have to happen on order.

 

Karun Nair despite the 300 never looked convincing but it is absolutely unfair for a player to get dumped after just a couple of games after a frickin 300.

 

Vihari has grabbed his chances absolutely but we have a guy who is now lost in the shuffle. If 300 can’t get you a long run then what will? What message does it send to other aspirants.

 

We can’t afford too many such cases.

 

T20 sure you can experiment, play horses for courses but tests need to have a proper system in place.

 

Unless Shaw is a repeat offender or he fails, the next in line has to wait and the next in line is obviously Gill who has also earned his stripes.

 

That’s my personal opinion. Feel free to agree to disagree.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Global.Baba

[Global.Baba]

Also at @express bowling I thought it was fair for Saha to get his slot back after he came back from injury being India’s premier keeper before Pant.

 

This is the problem with our TM, there is the case of Saha-Pant and the total polar opposite in case of Nair- Vihari

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Global.Baba said:

We are not Pak or WI where a player has a great start and then has some kind of  issues and then just gets lost in the shuffle.  We have a perfect system in place that we are all proud of and when there is a system things have to happen on order.

 

A good system should be such that brings to the fore really top quality players who can succeed at international level.  Such a system would consider player types and the qualities they have, along with their performances, before they are even chosen for the national team. 

 

Our system is only partially so. Player types and their qualities are sometimes considered, but not always so.  Which is why Thakur, Mohit Sharma, Kaul type players keep getting chances.

 

You can't have an imperfect system and then say that I am going to follow that mediocre system blindly.

 

 

Quote

Karun Nair despite the 300 never looked convincing but it is absolutely unfair for a player to get dumped after just a couple of games after a frickin 300.

Vihari has grabbed his chances absolutely but we have a guy who is now lost in the shuffle. If 300 can’t get you a long run then what will? What message does it send to other aspirants.

We can’t afford too many such cases.

 

Karun Nair looked quite convincing to me.

 

Him getting dropped for ever is probably because of certain issues he had with the captain. 

 

 

 

Quote

T20 sure you can experiment, play horses for courses but tests need to have a proper system in place.

 

Unless Shaw is a repeat offender or he fails, the next in line has to wait and the next in line is obviously Gill who has also earned his stripes.

 

That’s my personal opinion. Feel free to agree to disagree.

 

 

Shaw is very good and needs to get his chances soon. 

 

But a test IN a Sena country needs the strongest possible team.  
 

If he qualifies on that parameter then choose him ... if not then don't.

 

All other factors are extraneous.

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Global.Baba said:

Also at @express bowling I thought it was fair for Saha to get his slot back after he came back from injury being India’s premier keeper before Pant.

 

This is the problem with our TM, there is the case of Saha-Pant and the total polar opposite in case of Nair- Vihari

 

The system should be such that if a player comes back after a very long break ... and there is a comparable player who is already in the team or squad who is performing ... then choose the one who is performing currently. The the comeback players will get to play A-team series and less important matches and get to showcase his current form.

 

Not talking about a short break or medium break here of 15 days to 4 months.

 

Only exceptional performers at top level ... like Kohli or Bumrah  ... should be able to walk right back into the team. And even then, their fitness must be assessed carefully.

 

 

[express bowling]

While choosing squads and teams for ICC tournaments and away test tours against the top teams ... choose the strongest possible squads and teams without any other consideration.