coffee_rules Posted May 13, 2020 Author Posted May 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Is Liberal Nastik comes under the pluralism? Is the Secularism itself comes under the pluralism according to you? On one side you claim that Dharmic Religion was so open minded that even it accepted Muslims and all other religions and gave them shelter. But on the other side, you declare Secularism to be foreign to India and you are not ready to accept it. In today's world, if someone is representing the pluralism, then it is the Secularism, and not the Right Wing Hindutva movement. Bhau, it was a joke, bhakt mane Modi bhakt, Nastik mane anti-Modi.
coffee_rules Posted May 13, 2020 Author Posted May 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: It was told to me that Hinduism claims that God/Light is one and it considered other ideologies too as path to read the same light. Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudah Vadanti. Yet, other religions don't believe in that. Practically, it didn't work out for us, when we have lost 50% of land and more number of people to predatory religions like Islam and Christianity. This safeguarding of what is left is in the works now. 26 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: It is the same thing which present day Secularism promotes. For the first time Jews and Christians and Hindus and even Muslims and their sects have been living peacefully in Europe. But still for the Hindu Right, the present day Secularism is evil. Your Secularism is reduced to minority appeasement . It is a pseudo-philosophy that is exposed world over. Secularism means separation of religion and state. Individual rights' are left to fundamental rights of the consitution and that has been interpreted by different people differently and is now reduced to a sham system where Islamists are taking full advnatage of the system. It has never worked for India. 26 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Is it not the same what we see today in the Secular West? No, Secularism in the west is called Multi-culturism that has caused politicians to appease incoming minority to gain political power. It is a sham. 26 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: While the Dharmic India of today is full of hate and prejudice against Muslims and Christians and doing exactly the opposite of pluralism? You agenda here is exposed. You come here spouting the same nonsense. There is no basis for your claims. Hindus have only started to do poorvapaksha of predatory religions and hence they are retaliating to gain the narrative back.
coffee_rules Posted May 13, 2020 Author Posted May 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, diga said: Coffee .. yemme mele male surida hage Time pass ashte
Alam_dar Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Bhau, it was a joke, bhakt mane Modi bhakt, Nastik mane anti-Modi. I know it was a joke. But I pointed out to the normal trend among the Right Wing Hindus where they look down at any person who leaves Hinduism and becomes Atheist. Even secularism is hated too in the modern India. Right Wing Hindus made it clear that there is no place for Secularism or Atheism in THEIR India.
Yoda-esque Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 I know it was a joke. But I pointed out to the normal trend among the Right Wing Hindus where they look down at any person who leaves Hinduism and becomes Atheist. Even secularism is hated too in the modern India. Right Wing Hindus made it clear that there is no place for Secularism or Atheism in THEIR India. Stop bullshitting...Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Alam_dar Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudah Vadanti. Yet, other religions don't believe in that. Practically, it didn't work out for us, when we have lost 50% of land and more number of people to predatory religions like Islam and Christianity. This safeguarding of what is left is in the works now. In simple words, this was a "failed" philosophy, and in present era Hindus have left it. Unfortunately, they are following somewhat the same Hatred filled path against others which the Muslims follow. 17 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Your Secularism is reduced to minority appeasement . I have absolutely no objection if BJP struggles for ending the minority appeasement. I even support it. But BJP didn't remain on the defensive, but they went for the offensive of that extent, which will only end in making Muslims the 2nd class citizens or even in their genocide like Hitler or like Burma. Due to this imbalanced approach, BJP automatically alienated itself not only from the moderate Muslims, but also from the Secularists and even from other minorities too who fear the Hindutva too. 17 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: It is a pseudo-philosophy that is exposed world over. Secularism means separation of religion and state. Individual rights' are left to fundamental rights of the consitution and that has been interpreted by different people differently and is now reduced to a sham system where Islamists are taking full advnatage of the system. It has never worked for India. No system is perfect. We are always in the process of learning. There is already a reaction against this Muslim attitude in Europe, and gradually these rights are being taken away from the Muslims in Europe. 17 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: No, Secularism in the west is called Multi-culturism that has caused politicians to appease incoming minority to gain political power. It is a sham. Problem does not lie in multi-culturism, but problem lies in imbalance secular approach in Europe. In one way or another, they have to tighten up the reigns. 17 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: You agenda here is exposed. You come here spouting the same nonsense. There is no basis for your claims. Hindus have only started to do poorvapaksha of predatory religions and hence they are retaliating to gain the narrative back. The middle path is always the best path. Reaction against Muslims is not bad, but going to the Hindu extremism/fanaticism is bad and bringing bad name to India. The fight between Secularists and Hindutva is useless for Humanity. They should be united against the danger of Islam. But with present extreme Hindutva approach, it does not seem to be possible.
Clarke Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: I know it was a joke. But I pointed out to the normal trend among the Right Wing Hindus where they look down at any person who leaves Hinduism and becomes Atheist. Even secularism is hated too in the modern India. Right Wing Hindus made it clear that there is no place for Secularism or Atheism in THEIR India. Ye dekho inbred generation ki paidaish. They didnt produce a single chess grandmaster, but they produced lots of grenade blasters to murder others. The incompetent ones who didn't fancy 72 goats turned into internet warriors like this namuna.
coffee_rules Posted May 13, 2020 Author Posted May 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: In simple words, this was a "failed" philosophy, and in present era Hindus have left it. Unfortunately, they are following somewhat the same Hatred filled path against others which the Muslims follow. It is a fight for survival. Peaceniks don’t help us survive war. If in front of the aggressor, you opppse and tell him to not be aggressive, it is not a Hatred filled path. 25 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: I have absolutely no objection if BJP struggles for ending the minority appeasement. I even support it. But BJP didn't remain on the defensive, but they went for the offensive of that extent, which will only end in making Muslims the 2nd class citizens or even in their genocide like Hitler or like Burma. Pachees karod ki abadi , sadiyon ka quom, unko bachchon jaisa samjhana hain kya. They are a responsible community. 25 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: The middle path is always the best path. Reaction against Muslims is not bad, but going to the Hindu extremism/fanaticism is bad and bringing bad name to India. First of all there is no difference between Hinduism and Hindutva. That is a coined verbage (not to be confused with verbiage) to fight back the narrative. There is nothing wrong in being proud to a Hindu, that’s what Hindutva means (being Hindu). Manushyatva doesn’t make it bad from mankind. 25 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: The fight between Secularists and Hindutva is useless for Humanity. They should be united against the danger of Islam. But with present extreme Hindutva approach, it does not seem to be possible. What is extreme Hindutva ? Calling out the double standards regarding liberal agenda of Islamophobia is also termed hate speech. To hell with you guys.
rkt.india Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 19 hours ago, Alam_dar said: The fight between Secularists and Hindutva is useless for Humanity. They should be united against the danger of Islam. But with present extreme Hindutva approach, it does not seem to be possible. There is no way you can fight islamic extremism by not going on offensive. Offense is the best defence. You can't be meak.
coffee_rules Posted May 15, 2020 Author Posted May 15, 2020 Traditional English folk song. Bradfordisthan. https://twitter.com/dvatw/status/1261002319187120129?s=21
Manny_Pacquiao Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 On 5/13/2020 at 12:28 PM, coffee_rules said: It is a fight for survival. Peaceniks don’t help us survive war. If in front of the aggressor, you opppse and tell him to not be aggressive, it is not a Hatred filled path. Pachees karod ki abadi , sadiyon ka quom, unko bachchon jaisa samjhana hain kya. They are a responsible community. First of all there is no difference between Hinduism and Hindutva. That is a coined verbage (not to be confused with verbiage) to fight back the narrative. There is nothing wrong in being proud to a Hindu, that’s what Hindutva means (being Hindu). Manushyatva doesn’t make it bad from mankind. What is extreme Hindutva ? Calling out the double standards regarding liberal agenda of Islamophobia is also termed hate speech. To hell with you guys. He is beyond help. He is acting like secularism is a religion by itself. It isn't, its a political idea. And his desperate attempts to equate hindu 'extremism' with islamic savagery only exposes the weakness in his argument. He can't move past it either, which leads me to believe that this is all he has.
Clarke Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 ^ did the baliwood liberals including Javed Akhtar not know of Dawkins popular views ? He's been the fiercest critic of Islam in the scientific community. The most open mocking I remember is his comparison of nobel winners from Trinity college vs Islamic faith. Once the criticism came in, he punched back saying if not Trinity would they prefer comparing with Jews ? Wouldn't this be called Islamophobia by these college liberals ? How can he be fond of Dawkins ideas and others congratulate him ? Alam_dar and coffee_rules 2
Manny_Pacquiao Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Clarke said: ^ did the baliwood liberals including Javed Akhtar not know of Dawkins popular views ? He's been the fiercest critic of Islam in the scientific community. The most open mocking I remember is his comparison of nobel winners from Trinity college vs Islamic faith. Once the criticism came in, he punched back saying if not Trinity would they prefer comparing with Jews ? Wouldn't this be called Islamophobia by these college liberals ? How can he be fond of Dawkins ideas and others congratulate him ? "WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY?!! ANSWER ME DOCTOR..WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY?" Dawkins is actually a nobody. I'm not sure anyone even pays attention to him anymore. He made his name as a militant atheist. The british are trying to support the 'secular eco-system' to save democracy in india. Don't be surprised if Dawkins turns his 'critical view' on dharmic faiths and practices. The secularist lobby will celebrate him as a 'rationalist' and label practicing hindus as superstitious idiots.
Clarke Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 17 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said: "WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY?!! ANSWER ME DOCTOR..WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY?" Dawkins is actually a nobody. I'm not sure anyone even pays attention to him anymore. He made his name as a militant atheist. The british are trying to support the 'secular eco-system' to save democracy in india. Don't be surprised if Dawkins turns his 'critical view' on dharmic faiths and practices. The secularist lobby will celebrate him as a 'rationalist' and label practicing hindus as superstitious idiots. I wouldn't say that. Hitchens & Dawkins were the tip of the spear among the 4 horsemen (Dennett & Harris being the other two) that advocated for reason based atheism/agnosticism and were supremely critical of extremism due to religion, particularly Islam. They do have a contribution to the world in this area. What you say later cannot be ruled out, Christianity received its fair share of criticism and "Hinduism" may come into the radar going by media reports on "intolerance" in India. Alam_dar 1
Manny_Pacquiao Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Clarke said: I wouldn't say that. Hitchens & Dawkins were the tip of the spear among the 4 horsemen (Dennett & Harris being the other two) that advocated for reason based atheism/agnosticism and were supremely critical of extremism due to religion, particularly Islam. They do have a contribution to the world in this area. What you say later cannot be ruled out, Christianity received its fair share of criticism and "Hinduism" may come into the radar going by media reports on "intolerance" in India. They were barely known in the west, let alone the world. Loud rabble-rousers, sure...but they weren't telling you anything you didn't know already. There's no doubt that these 'militant atheists' will turn on hinduism. There is an intersectionality between christians, muslims and atheists. All 3 will use each other to attack and denigrate dharmic practices and beliefs.
Alam_dar Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 Liberals are people with good hearts. In racist western world (for example US of Trump), these same Liberals will defend the Indian community, while the racist supporters of Trump make fun of Indians and consider Indians lower as race. Liberals may make mistakes as nothing is perfect. Difference between Liberals and Dr. Dawkins: Dr. Dawkins and Hitchens and Harris and almost ALL of the Atheists are also basically liberals. They don't believe in racism, but they believe in science. Difference between normal liberals and Dr. Dawkins is this that he has the knowledge about Islam, and he is able to see the DANGERS that Islam poses to the humanity. Sadly, normal liberals are still not at that stage where they could comprehend these dangers. Thus, the atheist community in the West (especially who follow the 4) are standing on the LEFT, but they want to bring REFORMS in the left, where they want to react and destroy the Islamic extremism. Militant Atheist: Why Dr. Dawkins is blamed to be a "Militant"? Has he ever killed anyone? No. Has he ever committed any crime of hate speech? No. There is absolutely nothing about militancy in whole Atheist movement. But their only crime is this that they criticise religions. Thus it is enough for the followers of the religions to declare them militants wrongfully. And since religious groups are mostly consisted of blind followers, and they have got the weapon of propaganda, that is the only reason for allegations against Dr. Dawkins to be militant. It is our BASIC human right to criticise any religion (be it Islam, christianity/Judaism or Hinduism) with arguments and logic. And we are not ready to give this basic right away while religious groups wrongfully blame us to be the militants. When I left Islam, I even didn't know Dawkins. I didn't even read any book on atheism. But I was automatically following the 100% same path which Dr. Dawkins preaches. I was deadly against Islam, but still I was standing on the Left side of the spectrum where Human Rights were very important for me.
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