Rahane's future

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

If peaks are considered, Ponting had a good one too. 

Ponting "at his peak" averaged single digits in India.  Across 4 series.  Not one, not two.  Not three. Four.  

 

And how the eff are you including Tendy in 2013, in some sort of stats snapshot of 'peaks'.  

 

You are too smart for this, I think you're just trolling at this point.

 

[zen]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

And how the eff are you including Tendy in 2013, in some sort of stats snapshot of 'peaks'.  

 

Remove the Tendulkar glasses to read the tags on the table - it is another topic listing averages of batsmen during 1980-2019 period

 

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

Remove the Tendulkar glasses to read the tags on the table - it is another topic listing averages of batsmen during 1980-2019 period

 

So why include it in a post discussing peak years for batsmen? Career cumulative averages are a crap way to evaluate batsmen quality anyway, because they are fundamentally going to favor players with shorter careers, over longer ones.  And Tendulkar had a career span that was about 2.5x the average batsman's.

Edited July 24, 2020 by sandeep

[zen]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

So why include it in a post discussing peak years for batsmen? Career cumulative averages are a crap way to evaluate batsmen quality anyway, because they are fundamentally going to favor players with shorter careers, over longer ones.  And Tendulkar had a career span that was about 2.5x the average batsman's.

To highlight where he stands  .... He is just like any other batsmen on that list ....  but skipped batting in the TO relative to those he is compared with

[raki05]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

To highlight where he stands  .... He is just like any other batsmen on that list ....  but skipped batting in the TO relative to those he is compared with

Well you are switching goal posts and going one stats to other just to proof something which not many cares. Even if someone provide justification you ll pull up some other stats. There is no end to it.

[zen]

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Well you are switching goal posts and going one stats to other just to proof something which not many cares. Even if someone provide justification you ll pull up some other stats. There is no end to it.

You think I need justification from fanboys, who do not even understand at times what is stated or implied, on Tendulkar .... I can post what they can imagine on defending Tendulkar or even defend him better  

[raki05]

1 hour ago, zen said:

You think I need justification from fanboys, who do not even understand at times what is stated or implied, on Tendulkar .... I can post what they can imagine on defending Tendulkar or even defend him better  

Do you think Tendulkar needs anyone assistance to justify himself to a genius detractors on iCF. Tell you this,go ahead and publish this genius masterpiece  analysis on cricinfo probably he ll pay attention and comeback from retirement to fulfil your criteria. Just like you are calling others fanboys I hooe you take no ofence on considering yourself as tendu hater.

[zen]

4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Do you think Tendulkar needs anyone assistance to justify himself to a genius detractors on iCF. Tell you this,go ahead and publish this genius masterpiece  analysis on cricinfo probably he ll pay attention and comeback from retirement to fulfil your criteria. Just like you are calling others fanboys I hooe you take no ofence on considering yourself as tendu hater.

I am not a Tendu hater. He is among my favorite cricketers (not necessarily for tests). I do not believe in the self scamming exercise of trying to rundown other players to portray him as the greatest, when he is not. 

[raki05]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

I am not a Tendu hater. He is among my favorite cricketers (not necessarily for tests). I do not believe in the self scamming exercise of trying to rundown other players to portray him as the greatest, when he is not. 

Now who said that 

[Khota]

On 7/23/2020 at 7:18 AM, maniac said:

Ashwin I believe has the most MOTS awards for India and still has 3-4 years of cricket left. Would it make him the greatest Indian cricketer ever  @Khota bhai your views

Ashwin is a very average bowler. There are 4 to 5 ahead of him and he is a product of media bias. Nothing special.

[Trichromatic]

11 hours ago, zen said:

I am not a Tendu hater. He is among my favorite cricketers (not necessarily for tests). I do not believe in the self scamming exercise of trying to rundown other players to portray him as the greatest, when he is not. 

That's what you're doing everywhere.

 

You do realize that you can post your opinion without making contant attempts to scam everyone? 

[zen]

7 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

That's what you're doing everywhere.

 

You do realize that you can post your opinion without making contant attempts to scam everyone? 

I am not the one fighting to include SL, wasting  efforts on writing on assumptions, tagging others on an irrelevant post with ruffled feathers, using Kallis’s career timeline to make an internationally experienced (at that point) Tendulkar just to compete with him, etc., - developing a sense of duty to one player (And therefore writing against other cricketers) to not wake up from the dream  

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by zen

[Trichromatic]

36 minutes ago, zen said:

I am not the one fighting to include SL, wasting  efforts on writing on assumptions, tagging others on an irrelevant post with ruffled feathers, using Kallis’s career timeline to make an internationally experienced (at that point) Tendulkar just to compete with him, etc., - developing a sense of duty to one player (And therefore writing against other cricketers) to not wake up from the dream  

 

Why so much hate for SRT? 

[zen]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

Why so much hate for SRT? 

That is an assumption (but even if one is, that is fine  ) and addressed in the post you first quoted on this page. 

 

[Jamadagni]

I agree with the main point @Zen is trying to make. Sachin was good, but so were many others in his era. Was there any period during his 24-year long career where he was head and shoulders above other batsmen? like Ponting for a brief period or Smith these days? Many factors go against Sachin if there is an argument over him being the best of his time, let alone the greatest of all time. We all loved Sachin, but feel he underachieved big time. 

[zen]

Talking about Ponting, he had an amazing run from 1999 to 2007, and when guys like Lara, Kallis, Tendulkar, etc., were playing too. 

 

Excluding BD and Zim

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia  or Bangladesh  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  or Zimbabwe

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1999 and 1 Jan 2008

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000  and batting average greater than or equal to 45

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Showing 1 - 24 of 24

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RT Ponting (AUS)	1999-2007	83	142	22	7656	257	63.80	12488	61.30	29	27	8	872	46
JH Kallis (SA)	1999-2007	81	144	22	7287	186	59.72	16448	44.30	23	37	8	819	41
DJ Cullinan (SA)	1999-2001	25	40	6	2028	275*	59.64	4116	49.27	9	5	1	235	15
A Flower (ZIM)	1999-2002	26	50	8	2466	232*	58.71	5364	45.97	6	13	2	291	14
BC Lara (WI)	1999-2006	69	127	3	6776	400*	54.64	11641	58.20	22	22	13	850	60
Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK)	1999-2007	60	103	9	5103	329	54.28	9267	55.06	16	25	6	631	30
R Dravid (INDIA)	1999-2007	78	140	17	6610	270	53.73	15758	41.94	18	28	3	827	9
ML Hayden (AUS)	2000-2007	78	142	12	6885	203	52.96	11488	59.93	24	24	7	841	63
Mohammad Yousuf (PAK)	1999-2007	65	113	7	5597	223	52.80	10586	52.87	19	21	7	698	42
KC Sangakkara (SL)	2000-2007	57	100	7	4789	287	51.49	8894	53.84	12	20	3	650	12
KP Pietersen (ENG)	2005-2007	33	63	3	3024	226	50.40	4675	64.68	10	10	3	353	38
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)	1999-2007	70	122	7	5795	374	50.39	11353	51.04	16	23	9	705	27
V Sehwag (INDIA)	2001-2007	46	79	2	3873	309	50.29	5135	75.42	12	10	9	561	40
Younis Khan (PAK)	2000-2007	53	98	7	4563	267	50.14	8427	54.14	14	19	9	562	20
DR Martyn (AUS)	2000-2006	57	93	13	3993	165	49.91	7682	51.97	13	19	6	472	9
S Chanderpaul (WI)	1999-2007	62	112	15	4835	203*	49.84	10953	44.14	14	25	7	561	15
GP Thorpe (ENG)	1999-2005	43	76	14	3048	200*	49.16	6761	45.08	10	12	3	334	7
SR Tendulkar (INDIA)	1999-2007	69	119	11	5242	241*	48.53	9895	52.97	14	27	9	711	16
JL Langer (AUS)	1999-2007	84	149	11	6630	250	48.04	11570	57.30	21	23	6	825	38
AC Gilchrist (AUS)	1999-2007	86	125	19	5051	204*	47.65	6173	81.82	15	24	14	619	85
VVS Laxman (INDIA)	1999-2007	69	116	17	4634	281	46.80	9508	48.73	10	26	8	638	3
SR Waugh (AUS)	1999-2004	53	80	9	3272	199	46.08	6592	49.63	12	9	6	387	12
G Kirsten (SA)	1999-2004	49	84	6	3571	275	45.78	8294	43.05	11	16	7	441	6
GC Smith (SA)	2002-2007	52	97	5	4153	277	45.14	7095	58.53	10	18	6	543	10

Edited July 25, 2020 by zen

[maniac]

50 minutes ago, Jamadagni said:

I agree with the main point @Zen is trying to make. Sachin was good, but so were many others in his era. Was there any period during his 24-year long career where he was head and shoulders above other batsmen? like Ponting for a brief period or Smith these days? Many factors go against Sachin if there is an argument over him being the best of his time, let alone the greatest of all time. We all loved Sachin, but feel he underachieved big time. 

It’s a fair point if you feel Sachin didn’t justify his talent completely however let me give you an example

 

Martina Navratilova was one of the most dominant tennis players of all time and I think she still holds the record for most grand slams. Tennis Nerds @Gollum please confirm. 
 

However see the players/ opponents of of her time. Bar 1-2 they don’t even look like athletes. Does it take away her accomplishments? Obviously not. Is she still one of the G.O .A .T’s? Absolutely. This is what Bradman is.

 

Now take Federer for example, he started winning Championships towards the end of Sampras-Agassi era, dominated for a while. Then came Nadal who at times was better than him but then again Federer was neck and neck, then came Djokovic etc etc and in between there was the Roddick, Murray of the world  who were having their no.1 run. At many times they were better than Federer as well. However Federer was the constant over many many years. That’s what makes him a contender for the G .O .A .T argument. That doesn’t mean Roddick or Nadal don’t know how to hold a tennis racquet. They are greats in their own right and in fact Nadal might be in the same bracket as Federer almost like Sachin-Lara argument or may be even closer than that.

 

Would you call Navratilova a greater tennis player than Federer. It’s a stupid comparison to begin with to compare players across eras and formats.

Edited July 25, 2020 by maniac

[Gollum]

42 minutes ago, maniac said:

Martina Navratilova was one of the most dominant tennis players of all time and I think she still holds the record for most grand slams. Tennis Nerds @Gollum please confirm.

GS record is held by Margaret Court with 24*. Why the * you may ask...go through her Australian Open championship runs in 1960-66 and compare to Serena's run. I can summarize in one sentence: AO was then a national open, hardly any non-Aussie, many walkovers, ordinary competition etc,  I don't consider her the all time leader morally speaking, one can dissect her entire career this way.

 

Serena has 23, Graf 22, an amateur era player Helen Willis Moody with 19, Navratilova and Evert with 18 each. In a way you can say that Martina and Evert were damn unlucky that their paths crossed (+ some other strong players), for most of her career Court didn't have competition while Graf's main rival Seles lost her mojo after that stabbing incident. Serena however has faced tremendous competition in her over 2 decades long career, wish she breaks the GS record. 

Quote

However see the players/ opponents of of her time. Bar 1-2 they don’t even look like athletes. Does it take away her accomplishments? Obviously not. Is she still one of the G.O .A .T’s? Absolutely. This is what Bradman is.

Disagree, what you said may apply to Margaret Court, women's tennis became fully professional courtesy Billie Jean King in the early 70s. WTA was founded in 1973, fitness was taken very seriously and Martina took it to the next level. And she had tough competition, spanning from Evert/Goolagong era to the Graf/Seles era. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Gollum

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

GS record is held by Margaret Court with 24*. Why the * you may ask...go through her Australian Open championship runs in 1960-66 and compare to Serena's run. I can summarize in one sentence: AO was then a national open, hardly any non-Aussie, many walkovers, ordinary competition etc,  I don't consider her the all time leader morally speaking, one can dissect her entire career this way.

 

Serena has 23, Graff 22, an amateur era player Helen Willis Moody with 19, Navratilova and Evert with 18 each. In a way you can say that Martina and Evert were damn unlucky that their paths crossed (+ some other strong players), for most of her career Court didn't have competition while Graff's main rival Seles lost her mojo after that stabbing incident. Serena however has faced tremendous competition in her over 2 decades long career, wish she breaks the GS record. 

Disagree, what you said may apply to Margaret Court, women's tennis became fully professional courtesy Billie Jean King in the early 70s. WTA was founded in 1973, fitness was taken very seriously and Martina took it to the next level. And she had tough competition, spanning from Evert/Goolagong era to the Graff/Seles era. 

Thanks. Good info.

 

But my context of that post still remains :)

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

Thanks. Good info.

 

But my context of that post still remains :)

Stopped following the thread since posts became essays . 

zen is the mulo of cricket section, I admire your valiant efforts but sooner rather than later you will be waving them white flags .