zen Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) Inspired by one of my posts on Pandya 2.0 (updated hardware & software) From the top of the mind recall, below is the list of many of the game changers, poster boys or innovators in cricket - mostly in the order of their debut: LOIs Viv Richards: the sultan of high SR batting and average Jayasuriya: Redefined batting in PPs and therefore its posterboy Jonty Rhodes: Fielding and running b/w the wickets (The Flash of cricket) McGrath: Accurate bowling (at least the poster boy of it) ABDV: The art of 360 degrees attacking cricket Tests Bradman: Attacking and high average batting Larwood: Executioner of Bodyline Sobers: Batting while taking the workload of a regular bowler. Bowled both pace and spin Imran Khan: "Exploited" reverse swing Sehwag: Transformed opening in tests with his high SR batting Captaincy highlights Douglas Jardine for Bodyline Clive Lloyd for transforming WI into a pace bowling powerhouse Martin Crowe for combining innovative captaincy and batting performance in the 92 WC Mark Taylor for “always on” attacking captaincy in tests Eric Morgan for planning Eng’s transformation in LOIs into an attacking side post its relatively early exit in 2015 WC, leading Eng to its first ODI WC win in 2019 Edited September 12, 2020 by zen
maniac Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 Kapil Dev re-defined the importance of having a full fledged multi dimensional cricketer in limited overs instead of bits and pieces specialists. Before Gilchrist,Before Kluesner,Before S.Pollock,Before Dhoni, Bevan all these no.6 specialists there was Kapil. nevada, saik and Straight Drive 1 2
zen Posted September 12, 2020 Author Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, maniac said: Kapil Dev re-defined the importance of having a full fledged multi dimensional cricketer in limited overs instead of bits and pieces specialists. Before Gilchrist,Before Kluesner,Before S.Pollock,Before Dhoni, Bevan all these no.6 specialists there was Kapil. Kapil was a good player and among the 4-5 good ARs of his time but I am not sure if he was consistent enough. Among relatively neutral fans, I have not seen Kapil being widely seen as a posterboy for #6 specialist role. In ODIs, his bowling avg is higher (and that too by more than 10%) than his batting avg Edited September 12, 2020 by zen
Straight Drive Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 16 hours ago, zen said: Kapil was a good player and among the 4-5 good ARs of his time but I am not sure if he was consistent enough. Among relatively neutral fans, I have not seen Kapil being widely seen as a posterboy for #6 specialist role. In ODIs, his bowling avg is higher (and that too by more than 10%) than his batting avg He was ATG. Good is what all rounders like Irfan Pathan, Pandya are. Which all rounder has score of 175 in ODI? Many all rounders could only dream of that 175. Which captain of that time could do what Kapil did. Lead a team to two wins against Windies in 1983? The team members said that it was Dev's leading from the front performance which motivated and bought best out of them. I don't think you have watched Kapil Dev, otherwise you would have had a totally different view of how great he was. saik 1
Ankit_sharma03 Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 Dhoni as keeper was unorthodox but he was very innovative to his deflections for run outs Rasgulla 1
zen Posted September 13, 2020 Author Posted September 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Straight Drive said: He was ATG. Good is what all rounders like Irfan Pathan, Pandya are. Which all rounder has score of 175 in ODI? Many all rounders could only dream of that 175. Which captain of that time could do what Kapil did. Lead a team to two wins against Windies in 1983? The team members said that it was Dev's leading from the front performance which motivated and bought best out of them. I don't think you have watched Kapil Dev, otherwise you would have had a totally different view of how great he was. The above is irrelevant to what was being discussed - batting at #6. The point on the use of good/great is pedantic!
Gollum Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 Gilchrist is my #1 pick. Role of keeper has changed cos of him, now we look at that discipline differently, different expectations. His legacy is apparent when you compare the keepers of 80s to the ones today.....Buttler/Bairstow, Kock, Pant/KLR, Pooran, Carey, Watling/Latham, Rizwan, Mushi....... Whether good or bad dunno but definitely a dramatic change in our game.
Gollum Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 20 hours ago, zen said: McGrath: Accurate bowling (at least the poster boy of it) Think Joel Garner will be my pick for that. 20 hours ago, zen said: Imran Khan: "Exploited" reverse swing Sarfraz Nawaz
Straight Drive Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, zen said: The above is irrelevant to what was being discussed - batting at #6. The point on the use of good/great is pedantic! There is no comparison between Pandya and Kapil. Infact from what I recall , Kapil was the only batsman who could match the strike rate of Richards. Kapil was the first Indian cricketer who showed how to score runs fast. How is Pandya better than Kapil in batting. saik 1
zen Posted September 13, 2020 Author Posted September 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gollum said: Think Joel Garner will be my pick for that. Sarfraz Nawaz Garner too but I think McGrath is seen more as a poster boy for accurate disciplined bowling. Similarly reverse swing was being used probably without the widely used term for it. Imran Khan is the poster boy for reverse swing. Think of a scuffed up red ball and one is likely to think about Imran
zen Posted September 13, 2020 Author Posted September 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Straight Drive said: There is no comparison between Pandya and Kapil. Infact from what I recall , Kapil was the only batsman who could match the strike rate of Richards. Kapil was the first Indian cricketer who showed how to score runs fast. How is Pandya better than Kapil in batting. The thread is not about Indian cricketers but .... (read the OP) Arfidi has a higher SR. Why Richards is considered a game changer is because he played with as high a SR as these type of batsmen while averaging twice as much.
Gollum Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) Saqlain's doosra though it was a curse for our sport. Ashwin's carrom ball is a more legit invention (or re-discovery?), some may say it was Ajantha Mendis who was the inventor. Ash has a few other tricks up his sleeve but whether they are game changers I am not sure. Special shout-out to old era players who introduced other variations in spin bowling like googly, arm, slider.... Ranji's leg glance which was revolutionary Dennis Amiss who was the first to use helmet Kris Srikkanth was the first guy who attacked the new ball in both formats. Stats don't do him justice but you only have to gauge peer opinion about how he changed the prevalent attitude. Also an innovative captain. Greenidge the attacking test opener. While there were a few others before him they didn't score 7500+ runs. Andy Flower who used reverse sweep consistently, so common now. Switch hits, Dilscoops, ramp shots aren't widely used but time will tell. Jayasuriya's slash and upper cut have more takers and deserves a mention. Imran Khan for pushing for neutral umpires, credit where due. He was sick of Pak's home success being mocked at by non-Pakistanis. Warne who made wrist leg spin an art with no equal. 1987 Aus WC winning team under Border/Simpson which brought so much focus to running between wickets, esp that Deano guy. Lillee who popularized fast bowling, inspired a generation of great quicks. Even Roberts deserves credit. Malcolm Marshall, first short guy who became such a giant of fast bowling, Waqar, Steyn and others would later emulate him. Even our Shami bhai to an extent. Benaud and Ian Chappell's captaincy, also former's long stint in commentary box which will always be the gold standard. Pataudi's all spin attack for tests though that was a necessity rather than choice. Lloyd's pace quartet, again more of a necessity. ATG Australia's win at all costs mentality (not the cheating part ), their aggressive approach in trying to force results in all tests, whether it be via sporting declarations or going at over 4 rpo. They even went for that unrealistic target in 2001 Eden Gardens. Edited September 13, 2020 by Gollum NameGoesHere 1
zen Posted September 13, 2020 Author Posted September 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Gollum said: Do we have videos of his running b/w wickets? He was the best in that sphere too. He was the “Flash”
Gollum Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, zen said: Do we have videos of his running b/w wickets? He was the best in that sphere too. He was the “Flash” We may have to go through whole innings for that. I think Dean Jones is the poster boy for running between wickets. A real trendsetter, revolutionized MO ODI batting.
zen Posted September 13, 2020 Author Posted September 13, 2020 Just now, Gollum said: We may have to go through whole innings for that. I think Dean Jones is the poster boy for running between wickets. A real trendsetter, revolutionized MO ODI batting. Rhodes running b/w the wickets was out of the world. I recall he scored a quick 50 (may be in 30 odd balls) mainly through exceptional running b/w the wickets. The other team (probably Ind) had no clue on how to counter such speed.
cricketfan28 Posted September 14, 2020 Posted September 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Real McCoy said: He should be given legendary status.
NameGoesHere Posted September 14, 2020 Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) Lot's of good choices above. However who's a true "game changer" or "innovator" is a tricky question. 1. At almost the top: In my opinion are players who bring a new dimension into the game at the highest level-. Their contributions open up a new field of exploration and excellence. Ranji (leg glance), Saqlain (doosra), Jardine (bodyline) have been mentioned. To that I'd add Bosanquet (googley). Imran Khan pushed for neutral umpires but I don't rank it as 'his' contribution. 2. Below this category are players who raise the existing game (as it is played) to another level by redefining expectations. I'd argue Rhodes (fielding), Gilchrist (wk batsman) fit in this category. As does Jayasuriya (ODI opening) 3. Further below are players who make a one off contribution to a skillset - Marillier, Dilshan etc. I don't put ATGs such as McGrath, Marshall in any of the above categories - they were 'simply' supreme craftsmen who had honed their skills to the max (and if we're talking about (short) height as a game changer, Larwood was shorter than Marshall it seems). 4. But above all of them, if one is to go by the OP - Kerry Packer. To the best of my knowledge, no one has come close in terms of innovating/ changing the game. His impact continues to be felt today. Edited September 14, 2020 by NameGoesHere
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