Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 I have been saying that now for two years on this forum that captains are redundant. We are heading in that direction sooner rather than later. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-cricket-t20-zaf-eng/england-experimenting-with-live-data-system-says-buttler-idUKKBN28C0OG (Reuters) - England are trialing a system where coded information is passed from the team’s performance analyst to captain Eoin Morgan during their limited-overs matches against South Africa, vice-captain Jos Buttler said. England analyst Nathan Leamon had placed a series of numbers and letters on clipboards on the team’s dressing room balcony to give Morgan suggestions for the on-field match-ups during South Africa’s innings in the third T20 win in Cape Town on Tuesday. The tourists have cleared the use of coded messages with the match referee and anti-corruption officials. “(Leamon) was calling out the EuroMillions numbers - the lads were checking their tickets!” Buttler joked after the match. “Seriously, analysis has become such a huge part of the game,” he told Sky Sports. The England and Wales Cricket Board described the system as a “live informational resource” that Morgan could choose to use or ignore on the field. “Eoin is one of the best captains in the world, a fantastic, instinctive captain, and there’s a nice balance going on,” Buttler said. “You have to be careful how you use the information best - there still has to be an instinctive, intuitive side to the game but if you can use analysis to better that then it is a force for good.” Victory at Newlands completed a 3-0 series sweep for England and sent them to the top of the International Cricket Council’s T20 rankings. Reporting by Hardik Vyas in Bengaluru; Editing by Peter Rutherford Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles. speedheat and Rasgulla 2 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 information dene men aur 50 over on field captaincy karne men bahut farq hota hai SK_IH 1 Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: information dene men aur 50 over on field captaincy karne men bahut farq hota hai Folks thinking like you went on strike in India when they introduced tractors. speedheat, Bhoot, raki05 and 3 others 6 Link to comment
maniac Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 100% agree but a slightly different take. It is almost redundant already. Do you think the captain is standing out there and counting the overs of the bowlers and deciphering bowling allocations? We sit in front of the Tv and still can’t tell sometimes if not most times. The captain starts his blowers with the strategy that has already been pre decided and the calculation of who has how many overs left are done for him behind the scenes. You think a guy like Kohli goes on cricinfo and sees Jadeja got Warner x amount of times so Will make a change accordingly? Obviously these are human beings so amount of natural instinct will still kick in like Rohit or Dhoni thinking something on the fly and giving the odd tip. However don’t think there is a need for a captain. Let coach and his staff do the captains job and let the 22 athletes do what they do best, play the game. As far as toss goes even that can be taken care of, just let the home team pick what they want to do, that would make an away win that much more special. Let the away team analysts and coaches decide what to do depending on the home team decision. In the end if you are not good enough you will lose. Toss May have a 5% impact max, not any worse than your main player getting injured and other accidents. Teams have won before with more adversities, its only a toss get over it. In neutral games let AI pick. Use technology people! Basically no point of having a captain, put those fancy computers,Ivy League educated analysts and over paid beer bellied coaches to work and hold the athletes accountable only for their on field athletic performance. Khota 1 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Khota said: Folks thinking like you went on strike in India when they introduced tractors. Wah kya baat kahin lekin majaal hai koi international ya franchise team aisi bakwaas maan le Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, maniac said: 100% agree but a slightly different take. It is almost redundant already. Do you think the captain is standing out there and counting the overs of the bowlers and deciphering bowling allocations? We sit in front of the Tv and still can’t tell sometimes if not most times. The captain starts his blowers with the strategy that has already been pre decided and the calculation of who has how many overs left are done for him behind the scenes. You think a guy like Kohli goes on cricinfo and sees Jadeja got Warner x amount of times so Will make a change accordingly? Obviously these are human beings so amount of natural instinct will still kick in like Rohit or Dhoni thinking something on the fly and giving the odd tip. However don’t think there is a need for a captain. Let coach and his staff do the captains job and let the 22 athletes do what they do best, play the game. As far as toss goes even that can be taken care of, just let the home team pick what they want to do, that would make an away win that much more special. Let the away team analysts and coaches decide what to do depending on the home team decision. In the end if you are not good enough you will lose. Toss May have a 5% impact max, not any worse than your main player getting injured and other accidents. Teams have won before with more adversities, its only a toss get over it. In neutral games let AI pick. Use technology people! Basically no point of having a captain, put those fancy computers,Ivy League educated analysts and over paid beer bellied coaches to work and hold the athletes accountable only for their on field athletic performance. Blasphemy. You have a fact driven post devoid of emotion. It will not be recieved well on this forum. maniac 1 Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Wah kya baat kahin lekin majaal hai koi international ya franchise team aisi bakwaas maan le Link to comment
Vilander Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 hours ago, maniac said: 100% agree but a slightly different take. It is almost redundant already. Do you think the captain is standing out there and counting the overs of the bowlers and deciphering bowling allocations? We sit in front of the Tv and still can’t tell sometimes if not most times. The captain starts his blowers with the strategy that has already been pre decided and the calculation of who has how many overs left are done for him behind the scenes. You think a guy like Kohli goes on cricinfo and sees Jadeja got Warner x amount of times so Will make a change accordingly? Obviously these are human beings so amount of natural instinct will still kick in like Rohit or Dhoni thinking something on the fly and giving the odd tip. However don’t think there is a need for a captain. Let coach and his staff do the captains job and let the 22 athletes do what they do best, play the game. As far as toss goes even that can be taken care of, just let the home team pick what they want to do, that would make an away win that much more special. Let the away team analysts and coaches decide what to do depending on the home team decision. In the end if you are not good enough you will lose. Toss May have a 5% impact max, not any worse than your main player getting injured and other accidents. Teams have won before with more adversities, its only a toss get over it. In neutral games let AI pick. Use technology people! Basically no point of having a captain, put those fancy computers,Ivy League educated analysts and over paid beer bellied coaches to work and hold the athletes accountable only for their on field athletic performance. A captain makes the game charming. A cricket series is a campaign in individual match ups a captain leads the players to the field he takes the field and attacks as the batsmen defend their wickets and score victories against the attackers. Campaign captain field attack defend score victory. Each term has a certain charm to it and has a value. Link to comment
Sean Bradley Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) Though a theory based out of curiosity and probabilities, Cricket is a game of on field decision making and instantaneous brilliance, unlike football which can be strategized better from someone who is not actually playing it out in the field. We can have n number of bots, AI experts, analysts etc to support the decision making, it is ultimately for the captain out in the middle to make the call out of his gut. Apart from bowling changes and field placement, a cricket captain has to lead from front in terms of body language, teams psychological health in the middle of the game, in a close chase when the opposition has put up a partnership, teams morale when the going gets tough, some pep talk during drinks break, devising instantaneous bowling strategy against a team where your Plan A, B, C has failed. Can you imagine a debutant bowler who is taken for cleaners without a captain out in the middle? Can all these things be taken care through Coded messages? And last but not the least I cannot imagine the West Indies of 70s without Clive Lloyd, India of 83 without Kapil, Pakistan of 92 without Imran, Srilanka of 96 without Ranatunga, Australia of 2000s without Steve Waugh and Ponting. English cricket is definitely flying on a different plane altogether, good luck to them with this experiment, but saying that Cricket Teams doesn't need a captain is a bit OTT. Edited December 4, 2020 by Sean Bradley Link to comment
BlueBlood Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 I have to laugh at this thread. Seriously during drinks breaks, glove changes/bat changes etc. do you think there is no information being passed? Also, matchups is the only reason why cricket is interesting. If there were no matchups you have zero strategy and all luck on that given day. I also think there should be no umpires and technology should be used as umpiring is literally being obsolete with no ball calls after the ball is bowled on replays, hot spot etc. Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 Biggest problemis is the decay in the team when you have one captain only. Keep on rotating captains and you live data to make decisions. Link to comment
velu Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 captains can screw the team though Khota and Real McCoy 2 Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 59 minutes ago, velu said: captains can screw the team though One would think with Anushka as his wife he may make better decisions. I forgot she is pregnant. velu 1 Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Sean Bradley said: Though a theory based out of curiosity and probabilities, Cricket is a game of on field decision making and instantaneous brilliance, unlike football which can be strategized better from someone who is not actually playing it out in the field. We can have n number of bots, AI experts, analysts etc to support the decision making, it is ultimately for the captain out in the middle to make the call out of his gut. Apart from bowling changes and field placement, a cricket captain has to lead from front in terms of body language, teams psychological health in the middle of the game, in a close chase when the opposition has put up a partnership, teams morale when the going gets tough, some pep talk during drinks break, devising instantaneous bowling strategy against a team where your Plan A, B, C has failed. Can you imagine a debutant bowler who is taken for cleaners without a captain out in the middle? Can all these things be taken care through Coded messages? And last but not the least I cannot imagine the West Indies of 70s without Clive Lloyd, India of 83 without Kapil, Pakistan of 92 without Imran, Srilanka of 96 without Ranatunga, Australia of 2000s without Steve Waugh and Ponting. English cricket is definitely flying on a different plane altogether, good luck to them with this experiment, but saying that Cricket Teams doesn't need a captain is a bit OTT. Gut calls are the worst. There are scientific reasons for that. You are on the field, exhausted and with poor oxygen flow to the brain. hard to make a good decision. Let the dressing room make these decisions with data/AI/variouus inputs. Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 5 hours ago, BlueBlood said: I have to laugh at this thread. Seriously during drinks breaks, glove changes/bat changes etc. do you think there is no information being passed? Also, matchups is the only reason why cricket is interesting. If there were no matchups you have zero strategy and all luck on that given day. I also think there should be no umpires and technology should be used as umpiring is literally being obsolete with no ball calls after the ball is bowled on replays, hot spot etc. Laughter is good for everyone. Ofcourse you have information exchange and all that but downside to a captain is the rot in the team with Kohli like situation. You have put him on the pedestal and he is messing it up. You can have rotating captains and stem this rot. No need for Kohli day in day out. Link to comment
Sean Bradley Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Khota said: Gut calls are the worst. There are scientific reasons for that. You are on the field, exhausted and with poor oxygen flow to the brain. hard to make a good decision. Let the dressing room make these decisions with data/AI/variouus inputs. Go and tell that to Dhoni when he gave the last over to Joginder Sharma WT20'07 Link to comment
maniac Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said: Go and tell that to Dhoni when he gave the last over to Joginder Sharma WT20'07 there was definitely logic behind that and it wasn’t random. Bhajji got hit for 3 6’s and Misbah is a good player of spin. Even though sir Joginder might only be 10k quicker than Bhajji, on a pitch that helped fast bowlers, he could hope for the ball to just naturally seam and in the end it was the lack of pace that made Misbah mistime the ball. Dhoni is rated as a captain because he could process logic faster, not everyone can do that and Dhoni has his share of screw ups too because at the end of the day he is human. This is where we need computers and let smart humans process that to their best interpretation. Khota 1 Link to comment
Khota Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said: Go and tell that to Dhoni when he gave the last over to Joginder Sharma WT20'07 Harbhajan came upto Dhoni and said that Pakistan players are good palyers against spin. Let us go with a pace bowler (if Joginder was really pace). This call was no brainer. Misbah wanted to be too cute and he was in the end way too cute. Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, Khota said: Harbhajan came upto Dhoni and said that Pakistan players are good palyers against spin. Let us go with a pace bowler (if Joginder was really pace). This call was no brainer. Misbah wanted to be too cute and he was in the end way too cute. Wrong , it was dhoni who saw misbah from early days the nairobi series and he knew misbah plays spin well but most importantly reason was bhajji after that whacking looked hasseled so why to give over to someone who already has succumed under the pressure Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, maniac said: there was definitely logic behind that and it wasn’t random. Bhajji got hit for 3 6’s and Misbah is a good player of spin. Even though sir Joginder might only be 10k quicker than Bhajji, on a pitch that helped fast bowlers, he could hope for the ball to just naturally seam and in the end it was the lack of pace that made Misbah mistime the ball. Dhoni is rated as a captain because he could process logic faster, not everyone can do that and Dhoni has his share of screw ups too because at the end of the day he is human. This is where we need computers and let smart humans process that to their best interpretation. dhoni , rohit , ganguly all had one quality that computer will never teach them is be instinctive Computer will never read someone body language or feet movement which dhoni use to read from behind the stumps, A computer cannot gage own team's player confidence like a captain can and that day bhajji confidence was dented once misbah smoked him Edited December 4, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment
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