Joe Root - ominous form

[Lone Wolf]

45 minutes ago, Serpico said:

buttler is a very very avg test batsman and not a good keeper either, England wouldn't miss him at all. Bairstow used to be great but then did a KL and sacrificed test batting skills for LOIs. Honestly they are better off with a proper keeper considering their tail bats till 10

I was watching Buttler keep in the 1st test & was flawless so far..  Root said he is improving.  They are not resting him for his keeping anyways.  Some stupid rotation policy or something. Same with Bairstow who had also batted well against us last tour. 

Nasser has also bashed this policy on SKY I heard. 

Buttler is not average the knock he played against Pakistan with Woakes was brilliant.  He has smacked us a ton as well last England tour I reckon.  If we serve Flat decks like we did vs Saffers he would have had a impact. 

Root Bairstow Stokes Buttler..  That's a formidable quartet in every way. 

[R!TTER]

Their tail is also vey short, if it goes down the wire their lower order batting can hurt us. Also don't forget the dropped catches, IIRC the "best specialist keeper" in the world dropped at least half a dozen chances on the last tour of India 2016 

 

And then PP took over & scored loads of runs whilst opening, Saha was a massive failure back then as well 

[Gollum]

47 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Their tail is also vey short, if it goes down the wire their lower order batting can hurt us. Also don't forget the dropped catches, IIRC the "best specialist keeper" in the world dropped at least half a dozen chances on the last tour of India 2016 

 

And then PP took over & scored loads of runs whilst opening, Saha was a massive failure back then as well 

Saha dropped 1-2 catches and also suffered an injury, that is why he sat out after 2 tests, came back in that epic home series against Aus and was one of the top performers . But nice try , only problem here is you weren't the only one who followed that series or season.

 

Pappu dropped max catches especially off Ashwin and Umesh btw.  

 

PS: You are a good poster buddy, so no need for hyperbole to run down an Indian cricketer when he is down. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Gollum

[gattaca]

189 in second innings. Wow. England prepares very well. They are smart got to say this. They arranged the prep tour to Lanka. Now they will tour India. Another cause for concern is playing cricket in the same venue twice this will play in to the hands of England. We are playing 4 tests at Chennai and Ahmedabad. It seems in Ahmedabad they can prepare the pitch they like. 

[Vk1]

have we only lost the 2012 series test at home and then the infamous pune test? thats an outstanding record at home in 10 years.. 

[Gollum]

Root is better against spin than Kohli, Kane. Smith not sure, technically Root is superior but doesn't have that killer instinct of the Aussie. Root has always done well in SC, in the absence of our ATG SLA, his real test will be Bumrah, Ishant, Siraj. 

[sage]

Joe Root has surpassed Kevin Pietersen's run total in Test Cricket.

Matches: JR 99, KP 104

Innings: JR 180, KP 181

Runs: JR 8182, KP 8181

Average: JR 49.58, KP 47.28

Top score: JR 254, KP 227

100s: JR 19, KP 23

50+ scores: JR 68, KP 58

Ducks: JR 8, KP 10

Matches won: JR 44/99 (44.4%), KP 42/104 (40.4%)

Root gets very unfairly maligned despite comparing extremely favourably to Kevin Pietersen who is lauded as England's best batsman for the last 40 years.

[sage]

In the wider context, Root also now averages 50+ in 6 different countries, better than
Smith & Williamson (5) and Kohli (3)

[GautiMaan]

Need to develop some strategy against Root as we did with Smith.

Atleast there is only one guy in form,in 2012 both Cook and KP ran us ragged.

[Serpico]

51 minutes ago, sage said:

Root gets very unfairly maligned despite comparing extremely favourably to Kevin Pietersen who is lauded as England's best batsman for the last 40 years.

KP is a big match player. Dominated Aussie bowlers in their home ground. Impactful innings in india. Had atleast another 1000 runs in him if not for ECB stupidity. Root is not comparable to him

[MechEng]

13 hours ago, Gollum said:

Root is better against spin than Kohli, Kane. Smith not sure, technically Root is superior but doesn't have that killer instinct of the Aussie. Root has always done well in SC, in the absence of our ATG SLA, his real test will be Bumrah, Ishant, Siraj. 

 

Root will score 550 runs this series and we will go complacent after Australia high.

I think England will win 2-1 with Broad as the highest wicket taker.

[R!TTER]

14 hours ago, Gollum said:

Saha dropped 1-2 catches and also suffered an injury, that is why he sat out after 2 tests, came back in that epic home series against Aus and was one of the top performers . But nice try , only problem here is you weren't the only one who followed that series or season.

I'm talking total number of chances, that includes stumpings as well as possible run outs - there definitely were about half a dozen, PP dropped more because he kept in more games. This isn't hyperbole at all, when the heat is on, it definitely was that series, Saha drops a ton like most other keepers under pressure - the issue with Saha was he couldn't bat for his life, especially when his keeping wasn't doing all that great.

 

Yadav was the unluckiest bowler that series - probably half a dozen chances given off his bowling. Here's Saha's drops in just one innings - I'm sure I can find more chances if I look closer 

 

Yadav to Stokes, 1 run (114.4)
Another chance dropped! Wriddhiman Saha, what are you doing? Again it's shortish outside off, again Stokes slashes at it, again he gets a thick edge, and this time Saha doesn't even have to dive as far to his left. He gets both hands to it at a comfortable height and puts it down

 

Yadav to Stokes, 1 run (112.5)
Put down! Back of a length outside off and Stokes goes hard at it, slashes away from his body with an angled bat, and it was a few inches above the ground when it hit Saha's glove and popped out as he threw himself horizontally to his left

 

Yes, admittedly not all of them were easy but then you don't expect the world's best specialist keeper to do such costly mistakes, multiple times in a single series. The point being even at his best Saha was not Gilchrist or Boucher level with the gloves. He's arguably more consistent against the spinners, but then Gilly kept to Warne so there's that.

Edited January 25, 2021 by R!TTER

[rollingstoned]

root sweeps better than anyone from the subcontinent. it is something we will have to think about going into this series, none of our batsmen look that good when sweeping.

[R!TTER]

His go to shot is the slog sweep, we can have a fielder at deep mid wicket & even deep backward square leg for him. The issue is who's going to play the role of Jadeja, even as a bowler. Jadeja is one of the most difficult players to play sweep against, probably only behind Herath in the last few years.

[Gollum]

4 hours ago, R!TTER said:

I'm talking total number of chances, that includes stumpings as well as possible run outs - there definitely were about half a dozen, PP dropped more because he kept in more games. This isn't hyperbole at all, when the heat is on, it definitely was that series, Saha drops a ton like most other keepers under pressure - the issue with Saha was he couldn't bat for his life, especially when his keeping wasn't doing all that great.

 

Yadav was the unluckiest bowler that series - probably half a dozen chances given off his bowling. Here's Saha's drops in just one innings - I'm sure I can find more chances if I look closer 

 

Yadav to Stokes, 1 run (114.4)
Another chance dropped! Wriddhiman Saha, what are you doing? Again it's shortish outside off, again Stokes slashes at it, again he gets a thick edge, and this time Saha doesn't even have to dive as far to his left. He gets both hands to it at a comfortable height and puts it down

 

Yadav to Stokes, 1 run (112.5)
Put down! Back of a length outside off and Stokes goes hard at it, slashes away from his body with an angled bat, and it was a few inches above the ground when it hit Saha's glove and popped out as he threw himself horizontally to his left

 

Yes, admittedly not all of them were easy but then you don't expect the world's best specialist keeper to do such costly mistakes, multiple times in a single series. The point being even at his best Saha was not Gilchrist or Boucher level with the gloves. He's arguably more consistent against the spinners, but then Gilly kept to Warne so there's that.

Those were the only two as per CB commentary. So not half a dozen. Anyway I won't dispute that he had a bad series, maybe some niggle which developed into full-fledged injury that ruled him out of final 3 tests? 

 

PP dropped more cos he was an awful keeper, can never forget his comedy in 2018 Centurion , no one can defend his keeping, large enough sample size as well. And yup his batting was overrated, certainly no Pant and I will argue he was barely above DK/Saha level (if at all). 

 

I used to track all drops during that phase 2016-18 (made several threads), for a period of 17 games Saha dropped just 4, so definitely Saha didn't drop a ton. Many series he went without dropping a single catch and in fact taking blinders, I watched almost every single ball of the 2017 Aus series and have never seen a higher level of keeping than that in my life, on some decks that weren't straightforward. There is a reason why our bowlers trust him so much, and I doubt someone like Ashwin is a liar with ulterior agenda. Heat was definitely on in that Aus series, Eng series was a cakewalk in comparison....Saha delivered with the bat also esp in Ranchi.

 

At his best Saha was one of the GOATs of keeping, no two ways about it no matter how much you dislike him. Did he have bad days? Yes, just like every other great specialist in the sport. Boucher never had to keep to a half-decent spinner so his range of skills was never fully tested (Boje/Harris on any surface vs Ash/Jaddu on day 5 Indian pitch, you decide). Keeping in Aus is comparitively easy, no exaggerated late movement and bounce is true. SC and England are the places where keeping skills get tested maximum, historically you will find the greatest keepers from these two regions of the world....Knott, Taylor, Russell, Foster, Read, Bari, Latif, Kirmani, Sadanand Viswananth, Mongia, Saha, Prasanna Jayawardene.

 

Anyway fine if you don't agree with me. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Gollum

[nitinbwj]

Buttler, Stokes and Root. Rest are crap. Anderson in bowling department. Can’t see how they can win with one bowler and 2-3 batsmen.

[Lone Wolf]

7 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

Root will score 550 runs this series and we will go complacent after Australia high.

I think England will win 2-1 with Broad as the highest wicket taker.

Nah we will win somehow..  But I reckon they'll screw our WTC chances. 

[Hojoborolo]

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

Those were the only two as per CB commentary. So not half a dozen. Anyway I won't dispute that he had a bad series, maybe some niggle which developed into full-fledged injury that ruled him out of final 3 tests? 

 

PP dropped more cos he was an awful keeper, can never forget his comedy in 2018 Centurion , no one can defend his keeping, large enough sample size as well. And yup his batting was overrated, certainly no Pant and I will argue he was barely above DK/Saha level (if at all). 

 

I used to track all drops during that phase 2016-18 (made several threads), for a period of 17 games Saha dropped just 4, so definitely Saha didn't drop a ton. Many series he went without dropping a single catch and in fact taking blinders, I watched almost every single ball of the 2017 Aus series and have never seen a higher level of keeping than that in my life, on some decks that weren't straightforward. There is a reason why our bowlers trust him so much, and I doubt someone like Ashwin is a liar with ulterior agenda. Heat was definitely on in that Aus series, Eng series was a cakewalk in comparison....Saha delivered with the bat also esp in Ranchi.

 

At his best Saha was one of the GOATs of keeping, no two ways about it no matter how much you dislike him. Did he have bad days? Yes, just like every other great specialist in the sport. Boucher never had to keep to a half-decent spinner so his range of skills was never fully tested (Boje/Harris on any surface vs Ash/Jaddu on day 5 Indian pitch, you decide). Keeping in Aus is comparitively easy, no exaggerated late movement and bounce is true. SC and England are the places where keeping skills get tested maximum, historically you will find the greatest keepers from these two regions of the world....Knott, Taylor, Russell, Foster, Read, Bari, Latif, Kirmani, Sadanand Viswananth, Mongia, Saha, Prasanna Jayawardene.

 

Anyway fine if you don't agree with me. 

It is interesting that one of the "other" ATG contenders in terms of keeping, at least if you restrict to international keeping, is BJ Watling from New Zealand, which has arguably some of the Test venues most similar to English conditions outside England (well, if you exclude Malahide, where conditions are also decidedly "English"). Australia did have a potential ATG keeper in Darren Berry (stumpings off Paul Reiffel, 'nuff said), but he was restricted to state-level cricket. Likewise, in addition to those who got to play Test cricket, England had some great uncapped keepers - Michael Bates is one that comes to mind. Generally, keeping-wise, there are always a few gems hidden away one level below international, even in places where keeping technique is not that heavily challenged.