Ashwin press conference Feb 27 - legendary stuff

[Real McCoy]

2 hours ago, zen said:

Why would he not defend such pitches? And when his unidimensional supporters judge him based on how he does mostly on such pitches? 

 

as posted somewhere - Ind spinners outside Asia 

 

 

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa  or West Indies

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1950

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 40

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
BS Chandrasekhar	1967-1979	23	38	6202	2881	92	6/38	12/104	31.31	2.78	67.4	8	1
SP Gupte	1953-1959	10	16	3175	1378	44	7/162	7/164	31.31	2.60	72.1	3	0
BS Bedi	1967-1979	34	58	10145	3901	123	6/127	10/194	31.71	2.30	82.4	6	1
EAS Prasanna	1962-1978	25	42	7174	2931	92	8/76	11/140	31.85	2.45	77.9	5	1
RA Jadeja	2013-2021	16	28	3664	1670	50	6/138	7/258	33.40	2.73	73.2	1	0
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2011	27	50	6817	3407	98	7/120	8/180	34.76	2.99	69.5	6	0
A Kumble	1990-2008	46	84	14215	6632	186	8/141	12/279	35.65	2.79	76.4	8	1
R Ashwin	2011-2021	24	41	6086	2921	80	7/83	7/121	36.51	2.87	76.0	2	0
RJ Shastri	1981-1992	30	48	6144	2439	64	5/125	8/179	38.10	2.38	96.0	1	0
S Venkataraghavan	1967-1983	25	41	6602	2753	62	5/95	6/96	44.40	2.50	106.4	1	0

 

 I used the same criteria for Pujara in away tests. If there is an unidimensional supporter, its probably you and giving him nicknames such as count dracula pujara Such a silly name. The search has given this result

So he has less away average than sehwag of all people who was labelled an FTB and mental midget Rahane. So does this tell that CDP is an FTB and more of a mental midget than Rahane

 

Primary team India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Opposition team Australia http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or England http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or New Zealand http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or South Africa http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or West Indies http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Home or away away (home of opposition) http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	100	50	0
R Dravid	1996-2012	63	117	15	5420	233	53.13	13	28	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SM Gavaskar	1971-1986	46	81	6	3868	221	51.57	15	15	5	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SR Tendulkar	1990-2012	73	128	10	6007	241*	50.90	18	28	9	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
V Kohli	2011-2020	41	76	1	3352	200	44.69	12	12	7	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
AM Rahane	2013-2021	35	64	7	2473	147	43.38	6	13	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
VVS Laxman	1997-2012	57	102	11	3856	178	42.37	7	25	7	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SC Ganguly	1996-2008	41	71	6	2711	144	41.70	5	15	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
GR Viswanath	1971-1982	34	61	3	2195	114	37.84	3	18	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
V Sehwag	2001-2012	33	61	0	2145	195	35.16	5	7	8	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
CA Pujara	2010-2021	36	66	1	2186	193	33.63	5	10	5	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DB Vengsarkar	1976-1992	48	82	6	2463	157	32.40	4	13	8	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Real McCoy

[zen]

43 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

 I used the same criteria for Pujara in away tests. If there is an unidimensional supporter, its probably you and giving him nicknames such as count dracula pujara Such a silly name. The search has given this result

So he has less away average than sehwag of all people who was labelled an FTB and mental midget Rahane. So does this tell that CDP is an FTB and more of a mental midget than Rahane

 

 

I don't know why Pujara is being dragged on a general point on spinners since 1990. I do rate likes of Chandra high. 

 

As for Pujara, I have not said he was not a HTB. He has turned it around since the Eng tour esp. as a top order batsman (I tend to separate top order from middle order, pacers from spinners, to be more focused on roles) where he avg 40 v 22 of others, then scored 500+ runs w/ 3 100s in Aus (gets a strong weightage), did relatively well in tough conditions in the top order in NZ (got out to good balls in general), and the recent series in Aus (3 50s in last 4 innings, virtual opener in first two tests w/ Shaw and Mayank failing). As they say - subah ka bhula agar sham ko ghar aaye toh ushe bhoola nahin kethe. 

 

If an Ind spinner picks up 20+ wkts w/ a few 5-ers in a 4 tests series for e.g. and follows up with good performances in other 2-3 series in a row or stacked up in some sort of a cluster, that spinner would have turned it around too. May be these spinners can draw inspiration from Pujara and hopefully turn it around in future series as they would get the opportunities   

Edited February 28, 2021 by zen

[Real McCoy]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I don't know why Pujara is being dragged on a general point on spinners since 1990. I do rate likes of Chandra high. 

 

As for Pujara, I have never said he was not a HTB. He has turned it around since the Eng tour as esp. as a top order batsman (I tend to separate top order from middle order, pacers from spinners, to be more focused on roles) where he avg 40 v 22 of others, then scored 500+ runs w/ 3 100s in Aus, did relatively well in tough conditions in the top order in NZ (got out to good balls in general), and the recent series in Aus (3 50s in last 4 innings, virtual opener in first two tests w/ Shaw and Mayank failing).

 

If an Ind spinner picks up 20+ wkts w/ a few 5-ers in a 4 tests series and follows up with good performances in other 2-3 series in a row or some sort of a cluster, that spinner would have turned it around too. May be these spinners can draw inspiration from Pujara and hopefully turn it around in future series as they would be get the opportunities   

Pujara hasn't turned anything around. He scored a century in Eng and had a great Aus tour. Apart from that he has struggled everywhere. His average is in the 20s after that series. Even Rahane's average is far better. Yet you don't give Ashwin the same allowances. I just posted the stats about Pujara and you did with Ashwin. If you consider Pujara is not that good, I will be more inclined to listen to you. But you create nicknames like CDP and make him to be something that he isn't atleast from the stats. I don't like to bring this but have to bring it though. Is pujara/Pandya/jadeja/ Axar in your mix because them and you are gujjus You of course throw in some token other states guys from time to time but that doesn't seem to hide this gujju bias. Others have asked this too. Explain honestly

[zen]

50 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Pujara hasn't turned anything around. He scored a century in Eng and had a great Aus tour. Apart from that he has struggled everywhere. His average is in the 20s after that series. Even Rahane's average is far better. Yet you don't give Ashwin the same allowances. I just posted the stats about Pujara and you did with Ashwin. If you consider Pujara is not that good, I will be more inclined to listen to you. But you create nicknames like CDP and make him to be something that he isn't atleast from the stats. I don't like to bring this but have to bring it though. Is pujara/Pandya/jadeja/ Axar in your mix because them and you are gujjus You of course throw in some token other states guys from time to time but that doesn't seem to hide this gujju bias. Others have asked this too. Explain honestly

 

I have already explained that despite not being in the best of form, Pujara has been impactful (listed in my last post and on some other thread). At home, we have many HTB, so let them step up too at times 

 

As for Gujju bias, I do not have any (or at least not consciously). Many of the players that I support "happen" to be from Gujarat. Below is the list of players, I currently support:

 

• Pujara: Because he turned it around outside Asia of late. Does the hard work in the top order and puts a high value on his wicket. Helped Ind win a series for the first time in Aus with one of the greatest performances of AT. Moreover, he is not as naturally gifted as some of the more "popular" batsmen so is an example of players who make the most of their relatively limited skills (a Steve Waugh is another example). He understands test cricket well and among the last breed of classic test batsmen. He is like a guy who goes overseas with a only a handful of $s and builds something of value. I see Pujara's success as a triumph of a tortoise over hares (and I am probably more like a hare)
• SDP: I like him because of his natural talent and ability to change games. He is among the rare cricketers who have the potential to be not only be the best with the bat, but also bowl at 140+ (a rarity in Ind cricket). He is an exceptional fielder too. He is the opposite of a Pujara, and more like a guy with millions of dollars in his talent bank account. He needs to be channelled in to the right direction  
• Bumrah: An unique pace bowler w/ loads of talent 

 

So above are all unique cricketers that happen to be from Gujarat. Other players that I support tend to be youngsters (once they become experienced, I can be more critical on them) such as Pant, Gill, Sundar, etc. I also support quick bowlers so Shami and company. Usually, I do not favor post 1990 spinners (to give teeth to them through tailored pitches, Ind has failed to develop a better "most" conditions team over the years) and trundlers. Spinners that I like are mystery variety, leg spinners, etc. As for other Gujarat players such as Jadeja, Axar, Krunal (spinners since 1990 category), Parthiv, Unadkat, etc., I do not care (neutral). From ex-cricketers, my favorites include Sehwag (hardly include him in a world AT11) and Srinath (hardly include him in my AT11). I respect Gavaskar for his contributions as an opener in tests so probably is the only Ind batsman to get into my world AT11 (and over favorites such as Sehwag). The Gujju bias perception, I tend to take it as a joke

Edited February 28, 2021 by zen

[Real McCoy]

27 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I have already explained that despite not being in the best of form, Pujara has been impactful (listed in my last post and on some other thread). At home, we have many HTB, so let them step up too at times 

 

As for Gujju bias, I do not have any (or at least not consciously). Many of the players that I support "happen" to be from Gujarat. Below is the list of players, I currently support:

 

• Pujara: Because he turned it around outside Asia of late. Does the hard work in the top order and puts a high value on his wicket. Helped Ind win a series for the first time in Aus with one of the greatest performances of AT. Moreover, he is not as naturally gifted as some of the more "popular" batsmen so is an example of players who make the most of their relatively limited skills (a Steve Waugh is another example). He understands test cricket well and among the last breed of classic test batsmen. He is like a guy who goes overseas with a only a handful of $s and builds something of value. I see Pujara's success as a triumph of a tortoise over hares (and I am probably more like a hare)
• SDP: I like him because of his natural talent and ability to change games. He is among the rare cricketers who have the ability to be not only be the best with the bat, but also bowl at 140+ (a rarity in Ind cricket). He is the opposite of a Pujara, and more like a guy with millions of dollars in his talent bank account. He needs to be channelled in to the right direction  
• Bumrah: An unique pace bowler w/ loads of talent 

 

So above are all unique cricketers that happen to be from Gujarat. Other players that I support tend to be youngsters (once they become experienced, I can be more critical on them) such as Pant, Gill, Sundar, etc. I also support quick bowlers so Shami and company. Usually, I do not favor post 1990 spinners (to give teeth to them through tailored pitches, Ind has failed to develop a better "most" conditions team over the years) and trundlers. Spinners that I like are mystery variety, leg spinners, etc. As for other Gujarat players such as Jadeja, Axar, Krunal (spinners since 1990 category), Parthiv, Unadkat, etc., I do not care (neutral). From ex-cricketers, my favorites include Sehwag (hardly include him in a world AT11) and Srinath (hardly include him in my AT11). I respect Gavaskar for his contributions as an opener in tests so probably is the only Ind batsman to get into my world AT11 (and over favorites such as Sehwag). The Gujju bias perception, I tend to take it as a joke

Contrary to what you type about Pujara, he is a lesser version of a Dravid and has not shown "turning it around" except the aus tour in 18 and a test in England. Rahane has 100 in the previous Eng tour and a much better record in Aus. Pujara even has much lower average away than Sehwag who was widely considered to be an FTB. Also you failed to see his average is in the 20s since that Aus tour. You seem to be drinking the same blood as CDP. hence the bias. I like the disclaimer that you are not doing it consciously

[zen]

28 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Contrary to what you type about Pujara, he is a lesser version of a Dravid and has not shown "turning it around" except the aus tour in 18 and a test in England. Rahane has 100 in the previous Eng tour and a much better record in Aus. Pujara even has much lower average away than Sehwag who was widely considered to be an FTB. Also you failed to see his average is in the 20s since that Aus tour. You seem to be drinking the same blood as CDP. hence the bias. I like the disclaimer that you are not doing it consciously

 

I am not into the Fab 4 hype in tests too much. For 4 "great" guys playing together over a period of time, have seen them lose/not draw tests on many occasions ... Far from being biased, I am in the process of becoming as neutral as possible as cricket is a game that I simply want to enjoy  

 

I like cricket #s. Have been doing it since time immemorial. Do them for fun and share them where possible. At times, if I say X did this great, those who do not like X can get upset. If I say X did not do this great, people who like X can get upset 

 

You have already given me a certificate of bias "unbiasedly" 

Edited February 28, 2021 by zen

[cowboysfan]

14 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

lets stop  shamelessly defend a sub standard pitch. Answering question with a question nonsense is what we should leave for our politicians. Whats a good pitch ? one where we have sort of even  contest, where a game between two equal teams can last 5 days. Someone should have asked ashwin whats his view on shrinking test cricket to 4 days or in case we plan to keep dishing out such crap surfaces then a 3 day test. 

I dont think it's a substandard pitch at all,the pink ball was the problem. it was better than the Chennai pitch where we saw a puff of dirt on every ball.

[Vilander]

@zen don't just support players from gujrat. Your bias is very clear for everyone to see.. its looks pathetic. 

[jf1gp_1]

10 hours ago, Vilander said:

Again several questions. define Even contest define equal teams. One team wins one team looses unless there is a draw do you mean draws mean good pitches ? So good is when there is a draw ? . Equal teams by what measure how are two teams equal ? 

 

Please provide elaborate definitions. 

You want to continue acting naive please go ahead but next time when we bundle out for under 150 in SA or NZ don’t crib

 

[Real McCoy]

8 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

You want to continue acting naive please go ahead but next time when we bundle out for under 150 in SA or NZ don’t crib

 

So you are saying 150 happens in SA, NZ. Most of us here always blamed our batsmen for not scoring not sure what you're on about. Why don't you have the guts to ask those boards why they roll out those pitches. Or go to their forum boards and have a whine rather than whining here. Can totally back Ashwin when he says the Indian team never complained in SENA

[Vilander]

12 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

You want to continue acting naive please go ahead but next time when we bundle out for under 150 in SA or NZ don’t crib

 

Absolutely no one including the actual team cribs lol they say get the bowlers for the conditions get the batsmen for the conditions,  its the beauty of the game variety. Its poms and desi apologists that think otherwise.

[Vilander]

12 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

You want to continue acting naive please go ahead but next time when we bundle out for under 150 in SA or NZ don’t crib

 

 

BTW

 

Whataboutism. 

[coffee_rules]

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