express bowling Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, tapandrun said: Fair point, may b there is nathing may be there is something. IMO there is a pattern emerging. It starts same way first ppl think its all good they are top player, there is data to back them up and then slowly we realize there was a problem Or may be just over watching and over analyzing like they through around and talk about clutch genes, being soft, no. of rings, post season game in NBA. But there has be to some reason Ind has/had win a single ICC title for so long having best ODI players in Rohit, Dhoni, Kolhi, Bhvi, Bhumrah. And there are no teams like Aus for 90-00 and WI of 70- mid 80s One thing noticeable is that ... in recent times, Bumrah's effectiveness has improved significantly when there is swing on offer. He is probably operating at 1.5x to 2x potency with the swinging ball compared to his 2016-22 days. Conversely, when there is little movement on offer, his potency has gone down to 0.5x or 0.7x compared to his 2017-2021 days. One exception was 2nd test in SA when he bowled like earlier. Bumrah's overall figures still look great and maybe better than earlier. But there will be many innings / matches when he will look totally ineffective in terms of wicket taking. This problem has been accentuated by the fact that Shami's progression has been similar too. The fiery Shami of 2016 to 2021 has been replaced by line and length seam bowler Shami operating with movement. And Siraj was always movement dependent anyway. Infact, Indian pace attacks have been historically like this starting 1978. Looked great with the swinging / seaming ball but looked mediocre in flatter conditions in which the taller, bouncier, hit the deck WI, Aussie and SA pacers did much better. The only exception to this happened under B.Arun in the 2016 to 2021 period when the Indian pacers matched or outbowled their foreign counterparts in non-swinging conditions, as they bowled quicker and hit the deck harder while maintaining accuracy. Mhambrey tenure has synced with an old Shami and a twice injured Bumrah. So, it difficult to say whether our new bowling style is the Mhambrey effect or just providence. But where he has failed is bringing in new enforcer pacers and getting them established. Look at SA. As Rabada has become.slower, they have brought in Nortje, Coetzee and Burger as enforcers. And they have Rabada, Jansen and Ngidi to take the lead when the ball is moving. Indian cricket has usually been about being one dimensional and not having Plan Bs or Plan Cs. Do well if top 3 batters succeed or if ball is swinging or if spinners can operate on dustbowls. This is where captain Dhoni made the LOI batting multi-dimensional and succeeded. He had a solid lower-middle order with Raini, Yuvraj and Dhoni. An usual Indian captain would have batted at 3 and padded his batting stats. We should look to build multi-dimensional teams and have Plan Bs and Plan Cs if we want to win more ICC tournaments. ( And ofcourse look to focus on current form and ability instead of seniority ) Edited April 25 by express bowling Lone Wolf, Sgattick10, tapandrun and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, tapandrun said: Fair point, may b there is nathing may be there is something. IMO there is a pattern emerging. It starts same way first ppl think its all good they are top player, there is data to back them up and then slowly we realize there was a problem Or may be just over watching and over analyzing like they through around and talk about clutch genes, being soft, no. of rings, post season game in NBA. But there has be to some reason Ind has/had ntwin a single ICC title for so long having best ODI players in Rohit, Dhoni, Kolhi, Bhvi, Bhumrah. And there are no teams like Aus for 90-00 and WI of 70- mid 80s Reason is simple...we are again concentrating our strength on few individuals. India does have a problem...Once someone is successful they just shut the shop on the others and keep on backing that one individual for eternity even though that guy might not be in best of forms. We keep on milking the same player, use his name as a marketing campaign everywhere till he is injured. As we didn't develop any bench strength because we kept on focusing on one individual. Once we are in the rough waters we panic and select any random name from the domestics who has best stats or any senior player who has experience. Bumrah is a prime example. We are so much dependent on him that we have never done any contingency planning. What if tomorrow Bumrah injures himself ? Who is the next in line to replace him and lead the attack? There is no clarity...a clear vacuum. I don't want to engage in the name calling, but that's the job of coaches and selectors. They need to prepare for the emergencies...they need to identify the players who can perform the roles and accordingly pressurize the franchises to play those players in that roles. There are very basic things, which any ex cricketer who has an interest in cricket will understand and take the action. But sad to see that even a senior player like Dravid has no knowledge of Indian domestic cricket. I don't think our present ex cricketers are even 10% interested in cricket. All the care about is IPL to have some commentary stint and then do some ads..that's all. tapandrun, express bowling and Vijy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: What if tomorrow Bumrah injures himself ? Who is the next in line to replace him and lead the attack? There is no clarity...a clear vacuum. It's not even a " what if " ! In 2022, Bumrah was injured and they did not try to prepare his replacement till the last month. Suddenly Shami was brought in with him not having played a single T20 for a few months. singhvivek141 and Mosher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 SRH game today. Apart from the Sun rising in the East, the only certain things are no Tyagi and no Umran when GT or SRH announce their playing 11s. Suhaan, singhvivek141, Lone Wolf and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, express bowling said: It's not even a " what if " ! In 2022, Bumrah was injured and they did not try to prepare his replacement till the last month. Suddenly Shami was brought in with him not having played a single T20 for a few months. Exactly... Learn from your mistakes. This is a very basic concept in all our our lives whether we are student, teacher, working professional, business person or even a retired individual. We need to learn from our mistakes and plan ahead to avoid repeating those. BCCI & selection committee has no plan whatsoever. One injury and all hopes will come crashing down at the speed of 9.8m/sec. Any other professional agency would have immediately taken steps to remove such bottlenecks. Our board has no plans at all. express bowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 6 hours ago, express bowling said: We all know that Kohli will play. And so will Jadeja, Hardik, Mukesh. Rahul may sneak in too. These are just theoretical discussions about possible effective 11s. also expect avesh, harshal, boobi, undercutter, mohit. maybe even piyush chawla, rahane, and dhawan. express bowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tapandrun Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) 5 hours ago, JaFanatic said: Bhuvi is best ODI player? Not even in his peak years lol. He was at best a support cast barring a couple of matches against SL and Aus. He avgs over 35 for heaven sake! This we realized after T20 WC, earlier to that he was "considered" amongst best, wisden was writing him as all time t20 great. Will find articles ,comments that he is amongst the best in white-ball https://wisden.com/stories/opinion/what-next-bhuvneshwar-kumar-bona-fide-twenty20-all-time-great https://www.cricket.com/news/decoded-what-makes-bhuvneshwar-kumar-potent-1658050154821 Edited April 25 by tapandrun singhvivek141 and express bowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Exactly... Learn from your mistakes. This is a very basic concept in all our our lives whether we are student, teacher, working professional, business person or even a retired individual. We need to learn from our mistakes and plan ahead to avoid repeating those. BCCI & selection committee has no plan whatsoever. One injury and all hopes will come crashing down at the speed of 9.8m/sec. Any other professional agency would have immediately taken steps to remove such bottlenecks. Our board has no plans at all. The answer is simple: BCCI is not a pro agency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Defence Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Why is Jaidev Unadkat still playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Defence Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 34 minutes ago, Forward Defence said: Why is Jaidev Unadkat still playing? My bad. Was having an economy of 11.5 and avg of 50 before today JaFanatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, Forward Defence said: Why is Jaidev Unadkat still playing? singhvivek141 and Lone Wolf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kron Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 19 hours ago, Forward Defence said: My bad. Was having an economy of 11.5 and avg of 50 before today Flukes happen. His standard is what you originally posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vishalvirsingh Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 On 4/24/2024 at 9:53 PM, express bowling said: Natarajan will face the same fate as Mohit when a top international batter starts playing with intensity. I agree totally. He has also been thrashed in the past. express bowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 https://www.instagram.com/p/C6JBwQ0N761/?igsh=MTByY2hzMHR6aTM0aQ== Read the comments how many people are wanting them to play Kartik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, rkt.india said: https://www.instagram.com/p/C6JBwQ0N761/?igsh=MTByY2hzMHR6aTM0aQ== Read the comments how many people are wanting them to play Kartik. People who have seen this year's SMAT are commenting mostly. He bowled very quick in the televised game and I remember on "X" people were talking about his pace. Plus his double hattricks in the UPT20 also helped his cause. This was one of the best years for Tyagi as he was injury free (comparatively) and played decently. Edited April 26 by singhvivek141 express bowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tapandrun Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 16 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: People who have seen this year's SMAT are commenting mostly. He bowled very quick in the televised game and I remember on "X" people were talking about his pace. Plus his double hattricks in the UPT20 also helped his cause. This was one of the best years for Tyagi as he was injury free (comparatively) and played decently. This was to be the year Tyagi makes some name for himself, now on he is losing time. Not every match will be on tv and not every match will show speeds, next year could be big auction. if GT does not retain him and he moves tp a new ipl set-uo then they too wont give him chances rgt away.. Edited April 26 by tapandrun singhvivek141 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, tapandrun said: This was to be the year Tyagi makes some name for himself, now on he is losing time. Not every match will be on tv and not every match will show speeds, next year could be big auction. if GT does not retain him and he moves tp a new ipl set-uo then they too wont give him chances rgt away.. Only option left for him is to do something unrealistic with ball. Need to change states, move away from UP to Himachal, Uttarakhand or MP. Has to pickup truck loads of wickets and blow away the opposition with his pace. He need to target next domestic season, else he will be pushed into oblivion with new U19 batch bowlers. tapandrun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Only option left for him is to do something unrealistic with ball. Need to change states, move away from UP to Himachal, Uttarakhand or MP. Has to pickup truck loads of wickets and blow away the opposition with his pace. He need to target next domestic season, else he will be pushed into oblivion with new U19 batch bowlers. He literally blew away batsmen in UPTL. That was probably one of the quickest bowling I have seen from an Indian fast bowler. tapandrun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tapandrun Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 20 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Only option left for him is to do something unrealistic with ball. Need to change states, move away from UP to Himachal, Uttarakhand or MP. Has to pickup truck loads of wickets and blow away the opposition with his pace. He need to target next domestic season, else he will be pushed into oblivion with new U19 batch bowlers. Nt sure moving to other team would help but what ever works, should come into agreement that he gets x no. of games else we saw Sen sitting out. Need to make some noise for good reasons, tbh if he does not make it into Ind team in next year of so he would no longer b in his prime then this chances to play as 145 + kmph bowler is v.slim singhvivek141 and express bowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 34 minutes ago, tapandrun said: Nt sure moving to other team would help but what ever works, should come into agreement that he gets x no. of games else we saw Sen sitting out. Need to make some noise for good reasons, tbh if he does not make it into Ind team in next year of so he would no longer b in his prime then this chances to play as 145 + kmph bowler is v.slim Agree on Sen. But he actually choose one of those teams who are infamous for managing fast bowlers. Khejroliya is a good example, switched from Delhi to MP (as Sen's replacement) and he actually end up playing good amount of games. I am sure Sen have been cursing himself after seeing that. Further, states like Himachal, Uttarakhand aren't far away from Hapur( Tyagi's hometown). So culturally or lingustically it won't be an issue for him. Plus weather/grounds in those states favour the fast bowlers IMO @rkt.indiato confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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