Resettlement of Pandits in Kashmir

[zen]

 

 

I am not sure if this has been discussed and its status but India has a responsibility to resettle the pandits, who were moved out of their homes by Islamic radicals to change the demographics of the region ... If need be, Kashmir can have a special region for Hindus (and other Indian religions), protected by the Army 

 

What has happened to the pandits (at the behest of Pak) should be highlighted internationally as well. It appears as if India does not care for Pak's settling Pakistanis in POK, which includes Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. As a nation, not addressing what Pak does in POK has been a big draw back over the decades.  On one hand, these ppl talk about referendum (as if it is only applicable to J&K) and drive out ppl of non-Islamic religion, and, on the other hand, settle Pakistanis in POK. 

 

India is not about select states. GOI (every government since independence) has to be more proactive. 

[Lone Wolf]

Practically speaking there is zero incentives for KP's in Kashmir right now.  Most of em are well settled in Delhi Jammu & scattered in other parts of the country & abroad. 

They are an educated community so their financial condition is also not too bad.  Why would a well settled man leave his business or job behind to settle into a hostile area?  Giving up the relief funds set up by Govt...  Those who are assigned Govt. quarters get ultra cheap rations & free electricity. 

 

Only if condition is supposed to be very very peaceful in Kashmir which is you know highly unlikely then we will see few of KP's returning back. 

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

Another point you raised is about PoK & GB regions which frankly nobody including the Govt.  Cares about much. 

Pakistan has been settling Punjabis well before in GB area & has changed the demographics to a certain level.  We lost our window in Kargil to make a sizeable incursion into GB...  Thank you Vajpayee for that (Pussy move). 

Now Indian Govt.  Never raises anything about PoK or GB in international forums & only jumlas are stored for domestic audience.  China factor is also there so perhaps they know they can't do anything about it.  

[dial_100]

In any discussion, both sides should be fairly presented. What good KPs were for locals. They totally deserved to be kicked out. In future, we can do the same things to the giants like 4danis and 4mb4nis. How dare they amass all the wealth. Afterall mada$$ach@p have first rights on the resources of India according to the politics which is against KP.

 

 

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Practically speaking there is zero incentives for KP's in Kashmir right now.  Most of em are well settled in Delhi Jammu & scattered in other parts of the country & abroad. 

They are an educated community so their financial condition is also not too bad.  Why would a well settled man leave his business or job behind to settle into a hostile area?  Giving up the relief funds set up by Govt...  Those who are assigned Govt. quarters get ultra cheap rations & free electricity. 

 

Only if condition is supposed to be very very peaceful in Kashmir which is you know highly unlikely then we will see few of KP's returning back. 

 

 

GOI has committed to resettling 44k KPs based on the video in OP ... It is difficult to gauge motivation to go or not go back based on economic benefits alone 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Another point you raised is about PoK & GB regions which frankly nobody including the Govt.  Cares about much. 

Pakistan has been settling Punjabis well before in GB area & has changed the demographics to a certain level.  We lost our window in Kargil to make a sizeable incursion into GB...  Thank you Vajpayee for that (Pussy move). 

Now Indian Govt.  Never raises anything about PoK or GB in international forums & only jumlas are stored for domestic audience.  China factor is also there so perhaps they know they can't do anything about it.  

 

Strategically, GOI cannot let the POK issue slide ... Not focusing on it allows Pak to focus more on J&K and build up a false narrative ... Ind' typical response is "Kashmir is an integral part of India" which does not clarify the position on POK 

[zen]

Below is something that I wrote in 2014 (one of my defunct blogs)

 

https://711am.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/kashmir-a-land-that-should-never-have-been-a-problem/   

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

22 minutes ago, zen said:

 

GOI has committed to resettling 44k KPs based on the video in OP ... It is difficult to gauge motivation to go or not go back based on economic benefits alone 

 

 

 

Strategically, GOI cannot let the POK issue slide ... Not focusing on it allows Pak to focus more on J&K and build up a false narrative ... Ind' typical response is "Kashmir is an integral part of India" which does not clarify the position on POK 

That's why I gave the reasons why KP's won't go to Kashmir.  Situation is already very tense over there & things could spiral out of control by any radical move.  That 44k numbers seems to be the one those are living in Govt.  Authorized quarters.   There is no realistic scenario it's happening anytime sooner. 

For any of those things to happen GOI will have to resort to China's Xinjiang model which successfully managed to change demographic of UAR region & the outsiders Hans managed to settle in peacefully.  I don't  see anything remotely close to that happening.  Status Quo will be maintained. 

 

Now PoK issue is as we all know is in cold storage.  There is nothing concrete happening over it. Almost no outrage from India has been observed over Pakistan making Gilgit Baltistan as its official 5th province recently & China is also behind it most likely. 

India's position on PoK & GB hasn't changed for decades sorry to say.  The same old rhetoric is repeated in front of domestic audience with nothing raised about it in International forums. I don't think most people know outside of SC that Pakistan has illegally occupied a portion for decades.  But India's Kashmir problem is well known. 

It has been a failure of our foreign policy. 

 

Only thing logical coming out of it is that India has no interest in adding few more million Muslims into J&K & hence no effort has ever been made up on PoK front. 

 

[Khota]

Just not Kashmiri Pundits but there were lot of other Hindus and Sikhs who were uprooted. GOI is solely responsible for the uprooting of people in the valley who lived there for generations.

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

Just not Kashmiri Pundits but there were lot of other Hindus and Sikhs who were uprooted. GOI is solely responsible for the uprooting of people in the valley who lived there for generations.

GoI is responsible. Not terrorists, terrorists’ sympathizers, Islamists or local Kashmirapura Muslims. 

[Khota]

29 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

GoI is responsible. Not terrorists, terrorists’ sympathizers, Islamists or local Kashmirapura Muslims. 

Rajiv Gandhi govt. took no action against them. GOI response was weak and pathetic. Ofcourse terrorist are responsible but there has to be a response, not sit and watch. Lot of our family members had to move out of the valley and they are still not settled.

[Gollum]

Impossible, demographic battle is lost and Indian democracy is no shape to resettle them. Heck no democracy can do that. Need a benevolent despot, or CCP under Xi.....no other govt can get this kind of job done. Don't blame the victims or Indian state. Not worth the risk, Kashmiri Muslims have made up their minds that no kafir will be allowed residence, a few Hindus/Sikhs that stayed back post the exodus continue to be killed every now and then...a sarpanch each from Hindu and Sikh community gunned down in this pandemic period much to the glee of locals, forget ordinary folks who are sitting ducks. Girls from their families are abducted as minors and married off to 60 year old thugs, places of worship vandalized so often, their business establishments are targeted over rumours after Friday prayers. Just like Afghanistan was lost, then Pakistan, Maldives, later Bangladesh, Kashmir too is gone, no place for dharmics. Only thing in our control is to prevent rise of future Kashmirs in India, large swathes of our country especially in Bengal and Assam are precariously placed, Guwahati already feels like an island surrounded by hostile enemy territory. We have sharia courts in Murshidabad passing beheading sentence and banning female education/sports. Forget Kashmir and try saving these other places. 

 

There is no coming back, normalcy won't return at least for KPs, Sikhs, Buddhists. Hope govt helps the remaining few settle elsewhere. If you have time read about what happened to Terek Cossacks (minority) in Caucasus region of Russia in the 90s. Equivalent of KPs, except they were a badass warrior community and supported financially and armed to the teeth by Putin, Russian military. What happened in the end? They got driven out from their homes (entire population vanished), saw firsthand their women captured as slaves by Chechen warlords, every single one of their churches razed to the ground. Today no trace of their culture/religion/existence remains in their homeland. A big embarrassment for Putin and Russia even today, Putin is a badass except when dealing with Ramzan Kadyrov, before him he is a doormat and that entire Muslim region runs on handouts from Moscow without adding anything of use to Russian economy. In fact a nuisance to other Russians because of backwardness, criminal activity, mafia, gender violence, jihadist groups etc. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Gollum

[coffee_rules]

I don't think any of them want to go back as well. Unless, GoI resettles tbem in gated and armed communities like Israelis in WestBank land. If most of them are peaceful, then the problem wouldn't be there to begin with. The exodus is totally on the hands of the locals who openly supported killings. Business should go first, like TTD opening an office/property in J&K. 

 

In our lifetimes, we will not see a solution, status quo has to be maintained, armed to teeth and local economy jaaye bhaad mein. You reap what you sow. Kashmiris coming to other states to study/own business (carpets, apples etc.) will be targeted and marginalized. 

[Gollum]

On 6/26/2021 at 9:27 PM, Lone Wolf said:

Practically speaking there is zero incentives for KP's in Kashmir right now.  Most of em are well settled in Delhi Jammu & scattered in other parts of the country & abroad. 

Many KPs are still lodged in shabby migrant camps in Jammu. 

[LordPrabhzy]

Only way is to arm them to the max and train them in self defence- otherwise they will be lambs to the slaughter. Armed civilian militias could be deployed to protect/guard these settlements. When the enemy only understands one language you make sure to speak in that language.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Many KPs are still lodged in shabby migrant camps in Jammu. 

Yep the migrant quarters are allotted to them.  They get free electricity & almost free rations & special categories in state Govt jobs & plus get various monthly relief funds.  Going back to Kashmir right now is death sentence & no sane man even if given any Govt assurance would go back into that hell.  Re settlement cannot happen in our lifetime at least.  The Kashmiri Muslims are hostile to outsiders &  if hindu leaders aren't safe over there then how can a common Pandit family even think about going back? 

[Gollum]

21 hours ago, Khota said:

Just not Kashmiri Pundits but there were lot of other Hindus and Sikhs who were uprooted. GOI is solely responsible for the uprooting of people in the valley who lived there for generations.

Won't say solely, partly yes. They could have been more proactive, helped the migrants settle into their new lives, better compensation, brought terrorists like Yasin Malik and Farooq Ahmed Dar to justice. They failed at many of these things, only shining light was Governer Jagmohan Malhotra (passed away last month, Om Shanti) without whom it would have been closer to Armenian genocide than the exodus cum targeted killings that actually took place. KPs/Sikhs/Buddhists who escaped with their lives must realize they had a guardian angel in Jagmohanji when Indian establishment was lethargic in response. 

 

Coming to why I disagree with you, it is very difficult for people to stay in a place where they are outnumbered by the majority 20:1 and majority is full of bloodlust. Read Rahul Pandita's Our Moon Has Blood Clots. It wasn't just terrorists and Pakistan that were behind the killings and exodus. It was the common Kashmiri who happily blew the cover of his/her neighbors, who occupied the houses of the victims post-exodus, who led frenzied rallies against minorities, who bullied minority children out of school, who marked minority run business establishments at night for the jihadis to target, who helped the jihadis hide in the basements of his/her house, who garlanded the jihadis after killings of KP/Sikh neighbors and colleagues. No matter what Indian govt/army had done differently (hypothetically), it is impossible to live in such a hostile environment, like Jews in 1940 Poland or Yazidis in Iraq till a couple of years back. Sooner or later they would have all been tortured/killed or maybe something even worse could have happened, every day of survival would have been a miracle, no normal human being can flirt with such high level of risk on a daily basis. 

 

Fault lies squarely with the average Kashmiri Muslim who is radicalized beyond point of recovery. So much hate most of them carry in their hearts, hardly 0.5% of valley's population is non-Muslim today, still they celebrate when some minority is gunned down by a random LeT kutta from Sialkot. They mock the survivors even today not just on SM but even academic spaces.  When a Kashmiri soldier or dedicated police officer/school teacher/public health worker dies only family attends the funeral since anybody associated with govt/state is automatically an Indian agent, hence a traitor. Then when an Al-Qaeda affiliated terrorist with blood of innocents on his hands dies this is the response

 

From hailing Pak terrorists to waving ISIS flags in downtown Srinagar, you'd think these savages can't do worse. 3 years back during a period of unrest following some terrorist's death they burnt down over 30 schools, mostly the ones which girls attended. No protest, rally, dharna by common Kashmiris, it was as if this evil act found wide acceptance in their society.

 

Most if not all problems in Kashmir are self-created. If they prefer to live like barbarians and normalize terrorism, create sharia state, they have nobody else to blame but themselves. 

 

My heart goes out to all the KPs, Sikhs, Buddhists driven out of the valley including your family members. But my honest impression is that it is going to be impossible to go back, at least these folks got out alive, maybe better in a way that they now live in civilized, peaceful societies instead of living in their original homes with swords hanging over their necks all the time. True for Punjabis/Sindhis who fled Pakistan in 1947, true for Bengalis who fled East Pakistan in 1971, true in this case albeit it was internal migration. These refugees lost everything but because of emphasis on education and their hard work they have somewhat recovered and made up for lost ground. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Gollum

[Gollum]

31 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Yep the migrant quarters are allotted to them.  They get free electricity & almost free rations & special categories in state Govt jobs & plus get various monthly relief funds.  Going back to Kashmir right now is death sentence & no sane man even if given any Govt assurance would go back into that hell.  Re settlement cannot happen in our lifetime at least.  The Kashmiri Muslims are hostile to outsiders &  if hindu leaders aren't safe over there then how can a common Pandit family even think about going back? 

Good if they are quarters. I saw a documentary where they were living in pathetic hole-ridden tents in Jammu, no toilets, no running water, threat of bad weather and snakes present all the time . Maybe things are better now. 

[Lone Wolf]

Just now, Gollum said:

Good if they are quarters. I saw a documentary where they were living in pathetic hole-ridden tents in Jammu, no toilets, no running water, threat of bad weather and snakes present all the time . Maybe things are better now. 

Hmm..  I think West Pakistan hindu refugees still have that problem. KP's are in much better state & they are mostly educated bunch so it helps. 

[speedheat]

Again if they gonna resettle kp, make sure they are trained by army units and are equipped with modern weapons so that they can withstand any sort of deliberate attack.

 A private militia with indian army, let this be double whammy for jehdi dogs.

[LordPrabhzy]

22 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Again if they gonna resettle kp, make sure they are trained by army units and are equipped with modern weapons so that they can withstand any sort of deliberate attack.

 A private militia with indian army, let this be double whammy for jehdi dogs.

 

The issue is KPs and hindus in general want to avoid confrontation.. they are happy to rely on the Gov or Army to protect them and cry if they dont get that help. Growing a backbone and taking up arms for self defence and self respect is the only way they can survive and ensure their existence.