coffee_rules Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 A lot of indirect gains - Tax complaince has increase, a lot more are afraid of the govt and are paying more taxes. Digital transactions was triggered paying way for future expansions. PayTM became richer. All this is in hindsight, implementation was horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 56 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: How much time taken to increase revenue by 17%? 2-3 years. Direct taxes 2000-01 68,305 crores 2004-05 132,771 crores (80% increase in 4 years) 2008-09 3,33, 318 (150% increase in 4 years) 2012-13 5,58,568 (67% increase in 4 years) 2014-15 6,96,000 (24% increase in 2 years) 2016-17 8,49,818 (22% increase in 2 years) What's so special about 17% increase in span of 2-3 years? And that too after going through so much trouble. when you put the increase in perspective to previous years and regimes, this is a low climb in taxes. as usual when you put the facts like that, there is nowhere to run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 minute ago, coffee_rules said: A lot of indirect gains - Tax complaince has increase, a lot more are afraid of the govt and are paying more taxes. Digital transactions was triggered paying way for future expansions. PayTM became richer. All this is in hindsight, implementation was horrible. PayTM getting richer doesn't mean Indian getting richer. 19 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Not true. All of it is not opinion based. Even theWire estimated a modest increase in tax collection. This article cites the same data published earlier. https://thewire.in/economy/vast-problematic-difference-demonetisation-achieved-perceived why are you quoting the wire all of a sudden when you know its a leftist rag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 minute ago, coffee_rules said: A lot of indirect gains - Tax complaince has increase, a lot more are afraid of the govt and are paying more taxes. Digital transactions was triggered paying way for future expansions. PayTM became richer. All this is in hindsight, implementation was horrible. Again if you're attributing it with demonetisation, then please explain what extra has been achieved. Increase in tax compliance rate was already at similar levels before demonetisation. People and country paid a price. What did country get by paying that price in terms of tax compliance. It was always increasing only even without demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: PayTM getting richer doesn't mean Indian getting richer. why are you quoting the wire all of a sudden when you know its a leftist rag. Even quoting wire doesn't support the opinion that being posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: PayTM getting richer doesn't mean Indian getting richer. why are you quoting the wire all of a sudden when you know its a leftist rag. Just to prove the data I pointed out is not an opinion piece, but the same data that all have used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Just to prove the data I pointed out is not an opinion piece, but the same data that all have used. And data doesn't support the opinion that is posted. So far advantages are all in air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: And data doesn't support the opinion that is posted. So far advantages are all in air. It's your opinion. You look at data and claim what's so special? What's so special about becoming one of the major economies of the world, we would have become anyway! Edited July 20, 2021 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) del Edited July 20, 2021 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: It's your opinion. You look at data and claim what's so special? What's so special about becoming one of the major economies of the world, we would have become anyway! It's a question, not an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 59 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: A lot of indirect gains - Tax complaince has increase, a lot more are afraid of the govt and are paying more taxes. Digital transactions was triggered paying way for future expansions. PayTM became richer. All this is in hindsight, implementation was horrible. Verdict is not out on this yet! How does one measure compliance? One can only measure collection. And there was a 15%+ increase in direct tax collections in FY 17 over the previous year. In FY 2011 also there was an 18% increase in direct tax collections over the previous year. This is w/o banning high denomination currency. Far to soon to say if Demon was the devil we needed or one that we could have done without unleashing. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Trichromatic said: How much time taken to increase revenue by 17%? 2-3 years. Direct taxes 2000-01 68,305 crores 2004-05 132,771 crores (80% increase in 4 years) 2008-09 3,33, 318 (150% increase in 4 years) 2012-13 5,58,568 (67% increase in 4 years) 2014-15 6,96,000 (24% increase in 2 years) 2016-17 8,49,818 (22% increase in 2 years) What's so special about 17% increase in span of 2-3 years? And that too after going through so much trouble. You can see the trend of decreasing increment. Higher the amount of tax, lower percentage increase. it's saturating. Tax slabs have increased too. I don't really believe demo helped increase direct taxes. Won't direct tax collection be proportional to per capita income to some extent? Edited July 20, 2021 by rkt.india Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Not true. All of it is not opinion based. Even theWire estimated a modest increase in tax collection. This article cites the same data published earlier. https://thewire.in/economy/vast-problematic-difference-demonetisation-achieved-perceived The article you posted is from 2017 now let's analyse number of tax payer increase https://www.livemint.com/politics/policy/economic-downturn-dents-growth-in-tax-returns-seen-after-demonetisation-11573190535672.html Number of people who filed itr fy 18 68.4 million Fy 19- 67.4 Fy 20. 67.8 Fy 21. 73.8 https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/personal-finance-news/income-tax-returns-rise-8-in-fy21-vs-fy20/articleshow/84549320.cms 5.4 million net increase in tax payers in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, rkt.india said: You can see the trend of decreasing increment. Higher the amount of tax, lower percentage increase. it's saturating. Tax slabs have increased too. I don't really believe demo helped increase direct taxes. Won't direct tax collection be proportional to per capita income to some extent? The claim was the number of taxpayers increased only because of DeMo, which is equivalent to a 17% increase in tax revenue. Yes all are direct taxes, per capita income could be different, volume of tax payer is NCR ease is the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Increase in direct taxes YoY was 39% in 2006-07. 35% in 2007-08 26% in 2004-05 26% in 2003-04 20% in 2002-03 18% in 2010-11 What did those govt do to hit 17%+ marks? Number of taxpayers AY 2013-14 49,711,477 2014-15 53,911,494 2015-16 58,094,614 2016-17 65,598,364 2017-18 70,319,448 % increase in number of taxpayers was lowest after DeMo. Singh bling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted July 21, 2021 Author Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Trichromatic said: Increase in direct taxes YoY was 39% in 2006-07. 35% in 2007-08 26% in 2004-05 26% in 2003-04 20% in 2002-03 18% in 2010-11 What did those govt do to hit 17%+ marks? Number of taxpayers AY 2013-14 49,711,477 2014-15 53,911,494 2015-16 58,094,614 2016-17 65,598,364 2017-18 70,319,448 % increase in number of taxpayers was lowest after DeMo. What is your source for these numbers? This article where the Income Tax department quotes the number of taxpayers completely disagrees with these numbers https://www.livemint.com/Industry/MAhjU6GLc6BfMsYrHhfvKJ/ITR-filings-for-201617-grow-25-to-282-crore-aided-by-demo.html coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 42 minutes ago, bharathh said: What is your source for these numbers? This article where the Income Tax department quotes the number of taxpayers completely disagrees with these numbers https://www.livemint.com/Industry/MAhjU6GLc6BfMsYrHhfvKJ/ITR-filings-for-201617-grow-25-to-282-crore-aided-by-demo.html I had posted number of individual taxpayers from time series data published by income tax department. https://incometaxindia.gov.in/Documents/Direct Tax Data/time-series-data-2017-18.pdf % increase can be calculated here - for both individual tax payers and total number of tax payers also. Shouldn't be difficult. In the AY 2016-17 (FY 2015-16) India added 77,50,135 taxpayers. In the AY 2017-18 (FY 2016-17) India added 48,53,416 taxpayers post DeMo. % increase in taxpayers in last 5 years was lowest post DeMo. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted July 21, 2021 Author Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) This a more updated version of the same - Perhaps when that report was published it didn't take into account late submissions or those under review/dispute? There is a clear jump in the number of individual tax payers as seen below. I am sure 2018-19 will change when next year's results are published as well. https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/Documents/Direct Tax Data/IT-Department-Time-Series-Data-FY-2000-01-to-2018-19.pdf Edited July 21, 2021 by bharathh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted July 21, 2021 Author Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) del Edited July 21, 2021 by bharathh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 It was blunder of highest proportion. Sure, we had some benefits but the damage was way beyond the realms of imagination. People of India are real softies. We can give benefit of doubt just based on good intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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