Covid-related effects or vaccine side-effects - Which are worse?

[BacktoCricaddict]

A very important and valid concern regarding the Covid vaccines is the occurrence of serious side-effects such as myocarditis.  Due to the recency of vaccine administration, there was a data-void, but that is changing quickly.  Most importantly, there are studies that consider specific side-effects associated with the vaccines and compare these numbers to the numbers of the same effects in Covid-infected patients.  Here is the study with Pfizer's mRNA vaccine.  Paper link and most important piece of data from it.  

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475?query=featured_home

 

So, please share this with anyone who is vaccine-hesitant because they feel scared of the side-effects.  Most of the same vaccine side-effects occur at significantly higher rates in Covid-infected patients.  Please encourage people to get vaccinated.  

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

Benefits still outweigh the risks though. Hopefully this will be tagged as "misleading" by tomorrow.

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

18 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

Benefits still outweigh the risks though. Hopefully this will be tagged as "misleading" by tomorrow.

 

 

US study shows opposite

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/29/covid-poses-higher-risk-of-myocarditis-than-vaccine-in-male-teens-us-study

Original research paper:  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/

Conclusions: Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.

Caveat:  Still under peer-review.

 

Damn Telegraph is behind paywall, so I am not able to access the original research paper. 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Jimmy Cliff]

3 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

US study shows opposite

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/29/covid-poses-higher-risk-of-myocarditis-than-vaccine-in-male-teens-us-study

Original research paper:  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/

Conclusions: Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.

Caveat:  Still under peer-review.

 

Damn Telegraph is behind paywall, so I am not able to access the original research paper. 

 

 

Use this for the article. Or this tweet if you want to look at the paper.

 

 

 

 

[Real McCoy]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:43 PM, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Use this for the article. Or this tweet if you want to look at the paper.

 

 

 

 

backtocovidaddict is at it again. I already proved that nejm is owned by the usual suspects. He is still quoting from this. I somehow think covidaddict and the other ones who are intent to prove this are cointelpro. Don't trust anyone on the internet. Those who have an agenda and constantly post on it are surely agents to put it bluntly. how many "data" has this guy posted and we have counteracted with an alternate explanation? This guy keeps coming back with more data and starts new threads while not responding to our claims.

[EnterTheVoid]

On 9/10/2021 at 2:19 AM, BacktoCricaddict said:

So, please share this with anyone who is vaccine-hesitant because they feel scared of the side-effects.  Most of the same vaccine side-effects occur at significantly higher rates in Covid-infected patients.  Please encourage people to get vaccinated.  

 

I'd advocate the opposite. You're not going to change someone who has made up their mind.

 

They end up dying from the virus anyway. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by EnterTheVoid

[EnterTheVoid]

Anti - vax pests rails against masks, virus and social distancing.

 

Get's COVID. Dies from COVID.

 

Now, there is a GoFundMe page to raise money for his funeral.

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-scott-and-melissa-apley-with-medical-bills

 

I'd rather give money to the dog home. 

[Real McCoy]

There is one here who wishes death on others and call them as pests. It should look in the mirror for the pest it is looking for. Wishing death on others is not a good thing. Alas this thing doesn't know the effects of karma. You can heal a sick person but can't heal a person sick in the mind for its mind has already entered the void

[EnterTheVoid]

41 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

There is one here who wishes death on others and call them as pests. It should look in the mirror for the pest it is looking for. Wishing death on others is not a good thing. Alas this thing doesn't know the effects of karma. You can heal a sick person but can't heal a person sick in the mind for its mind has already entered the void

 

Vamos_rafa, aren't you the arse hat who wished death on others? On me, specifically?

 

Want me to pull that post up and expose the quality of your upbringing?

 

---

 

No matter how much of a low life piece of sh-it you are, I'll refrain from wishing you harm (that is more courtesy than you have afforded me in the past).

 

I was even going to advise one of the other posters here when they needlessly dragged your family into some irrelevant discussions.

 

And no, I don't want anyone to die from COVID. I'd rather they live and be happy. But if it is their choice not to take the vaccine, so be it. Most of these anti-vaxers who don't take the vaccine, they end up dying anyway. That is just a fact.

Edited September 12, 2021 by EnterTheVoid

[Real McCoy]

17 minutes ago, EnterTheVoid said:

 

Vamos_rafa, aren't you the arse hat who wished death on others? On me, specifically?

 

Want me to pull that post up and expose the quality of your upbringing?

 

---

 

No matter how much of a low life piece of sh-it you are, I'll refrain from wishing you harm (that is more courtesy than you have afforded me in the past).

 

I was even going to advise one of the other posters here when they needlessly dragged your family into some irrelevant discussions.

 

And no, I don't want anyone to die from COVID. I'd rather they live and be happy. But if it is their choice not to take the vaccine, so be it. Most of these anti-vaxers who don't take the vaccine, they end up dying anyway. That is just a fact.

What are you on about. I didn't wish death on anybody. You are free to pull that post up. Show me where I wished death on you. kuch bhi . my upbringing is far better than yours. you had a cross dresser in your avatar for a long while and your predilection for watching and promoting disturbing movies is well known. you don't have gaspar noe in your signature for nothing. all his movies are disturbing.

I also know you offered shitty advice on taking risks on your mountain climbing threads. You don't give a damn if somebody died by taking your advice. In fact, I know you want it that way. No sane person would do something like that. No mr/ms void there is no proof that people who didn't take the vacc died. by suggesting that they died is an indirect way of wishing their death. my upbringing is such that I don't even post death numbers that the media does these days.

[EnterTheVoid]

7 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

What are you on about. I didn't wish death on anybody. You are free to pull that post up. Show me where I wished death on you. kuch bhi . my upbringing is far better than yours. you had a cross dresser in your avatar for a long while and your predilection for watching and promoting disturbing movies is well known. you don't have gaspar noe in your signature for nothing. all his movies are disturbing.

I also know you offered shitty advice on taking risks on your mountain climbing threads. You don't give a damn if somebody died by taking your advice. In fact, I know you want it that way. No sane person would do something like that. No mr/ms void there is no proof that people who didn't take the vacc died. by suggesting that they died is an indirect way of wishing their death. my upbringing is such that I don't even post death numbers that the media does these days.

 

"The end for marxist scum like you is coming and pay attention it may be sooner than you think"

Link: 

 

 

Keep lying you low life piece of sh-it.

 

Not even going to bother with the rest. Were you never told to mind your own business?

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by EnterTheVoid

[Real McCoy]

1 hour ago, EnterTheVoid said:

 

"The end for marxist scum like you is coming and pay attention it may be sooner than you think"

Link: 

 

 

Keep lying you low life piece of sh-it.

 

Not even going to bother with the rest. Were you never told to mind your own business?

 

It was you who started quoting me. I'm minding my own business. You stay in your own lane and stop posting in koweed threads. Otherwise your shitty posts are fair game.

And of the post you quoted as wishing death, there was no sign of it. Here's the full post. Its nice of you to cut and paste from the original and leave the context

 

Quote

Hey moron would you stop trollvoting me on every thread. What is the matter. Have no life? No mountain expeditions to do? Do you even work? I can play this game too and so can @coffee_rules and @Laaloo The end for marxist scum like you is coming and pay attention it may be sooner than you think

That post had several likes and one dislike - from you obviously. are you by extension saying those people are also wishing your death. why did you troll vote 100 posts all of a sudden other than you got pwned in a thread badly. end doesn't mean death. could mean suspension of account So much for your mastery of fear, you are the most fearful of all beings. Even a pest (your fav term) will have more courage than you. 

You don't have to type in higher case to make your point. In fact, that is a tell tale sign of desperation and hanging on to straws. if anyone is a low like piece of sh-it its you with your strange taste in movies and effete avatar.

 

PS - Do tell everyone why you are such an admirer of Gaspar Noe in his movie enter the void and other such movies of his. Do you want me to make a separate post on it and rip you wide open like I did previously. And why do you have it in red and higher font and bold in your signature. Have some class

[EnterTheVoid]

This vamos_rafa retard get's involved in discussions that doesn't involve him. And just vomits nonsense he/it reads on conspiracy theory websites.

 

Has nothing of any value to add to any discussion. Just goes full retard in every topic. Textbook attention seeker.

 

This is what happens when you have more free time than brains.

Edited September 12, 2021 by EnterTheVoid

[Autonomous]

I did not get any side effects (got sinovac shots)

 

However, I got infected last month and had all the symptoms including fever, cough, loss of smell, and taste. 

 

Thankfully I got recovered but it was awful experience. 

 

I'm 25 years old and took a very strong diet once I knew that I was infected, which may have helped me to recover quickly. I also had to drive from islamabad to my hometown which is around 220kms while I was covid+ 

[Real McCoy]

20 minutes ago, EnterTheVoid said:

This vamos_rafa retard get's involved in discussions that doesn't involve him. And just vomits nonsense he/it reads on conspiracy theory websites.

 

Has nothing of any value to add to any discussion. Just goes full retard in every topic. Textbook attention seeker.

 

This is what happens when you have more free time than brains. 

yet you spend your free time and rot your brain cells on chit chat section but contribute nothing to the cricket section which is the main point of visiting a cricket forum. you are one to speak of free time and brains. your brain is full of rotten movies which is nothing but shite - degrading, violence and perverted sex. you have some projection mechanisms. see who's seeking whose attention below And by responding, you have given me more conviction to rip you apart about your weird movie interests.

 

 

 

 

[New guy]

22 hours ago, EnterTheVoid said:

Anti - vax pests rails against masks, virus and social distancing.

 

Get's COVID. Dies from COVID.

 

Now, there is a GoFundMe page to raise money for his funeral.

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-scott-and-melissa-apley-with-medical-bills

 

I'd rather give money to the dog home. 

Dude there are thousanda of such examples. Just check online like r/hermaincain award on reddit.

 

And its the same pattern, all of them are racist bigoted, ignorant people. All of then have exact same memes and buzzwords and anti science phrases. All of them suffer horribly, most died, some have life long issues

 

Its both funny and tragic at the same time 

 

 

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/top/?t=all

 

Check the above twitter thread or that sub

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by New guy

[coffee_rules]

The J&J Conundrim. I received this from NY Times Newsletter in my mailbox. It seems a booster J&J will be approved FDA/CDC with in weeks. Not much data available on "Mix and Match" approach that is already approved and followed in Canada and UK. It is all very frustrating. I am still refusing to go to work (WFH) and using masks everywhere. Damn J&J!

 

------------------------------------

The key points

1. From the start, J.&J.’s single-shot vaccine has appeared to be less effective than the two-shot vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer. The J.&J. shot still provides good protection against serious illness, but not as much as the others. And the Delta variant may be widening the gap.

2. Federal officials have suggested they are likely to approve a booster shot for J.&.J recipients eventually. But any approval seems to be weeks away, if not months.

3. Regardless, many J.&J. recipients are less interested in receiving a second J.&J. shot than in getting a follow-up shot with either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine — sometimes known as a “mix-and-match” approach.

4. Many experts believe that this approach will be effective, maybe even more effective than two shots of the same vaccine. Britain has used this strategy, giving many people who received the AstraZeneca vaccine (which is similar to J.&J.’s) a second shot with Moderna’s or Pfizer’s.

5. But there is still not much data on the benefits or the risks of combining a J.&J. shot with a different vaccine.

6. Numerous doctors and experts who themselves received the J.&J. vaccine aren’t waiting for the government to act. They have gotten a follow-up Moderna or Pfizer vaccine. “Sometimes public health requires making tough decisions without a complete data set to support it,” Angela Rasmussen, a virologist who received a Pfizer shot after having received the J.&J. vaccine, has written. The city of San Francisco also began offering a Moderna or Pfizer booster shot to J.&J. recipients about a month ago.

7. When Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the C.D.C., was asked whether she considered it a mistake for J.&J. recipients to pursue a Moderna or Pfizer follow-up shot, she said, “Not with what I’ve seen so far.” From the head of a notoriously cautious agency, that was a remarkable and telling statement.

8. Getting a follow-up shot with the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines may not be easy. Because the government has not authorized them, doctors often refuse to give them. Many people are understandably frustrated by the situation: It can feel like there is one set of rules for people with medical connections and another set of rules for everyone else.

9. Still, if you want a shot, you have a few options. You can try different drugstores or clinics, hoping to find one that is willing to give a Pfizer or Moderna shot to a J.&J. recipient — or one that won’t ask about your history. You can also choose to be less than fully honest. You won’t be alone.

The bottom line

Here’s the brief case for getting a Pfizer or Moderna shot as a follow-up to a J.&J. shot: The available evidence suggests you will benefit. There are no signs of worrisome side effects so far. And the Delta variant is an even bigger threat to human life than earlier versions of Covid. By waiting, you may be allowing bureaucratic caution to get in the way of your health.

Here’s the brief case against a follow-up shot: A single shot of the J.&J. vaccine still provides good protection, and the government may soon allow a second J.&J. shot. There is not yet rigorous data on the benefits or risks of the mix-and-match approach with J.&J. And you may need to resort to some deviousness to get another shot.

We understand why so many people are flummoxed.

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:29 PM, Jimmy Cliff said:

Hopefully this will be tagged as "misleading" by tomorrow.

what if it really *is* misleading :-)?

 

The research paper shared in the OP is comparing the odds of getting the same affliction with vaccine or with Covid infection.  And for most of those afflictions (including myocarditis), you have much higher odds if you are Covid-infected compared to vaccinated. 

 

To me, this is a relevant mangoes-to-mangoes comparison, which addresses concerns like this:

 

Vaccine-hesitant:  Mr. Cliff told me that I can get myocarditis if I take the vaccine.

Me:  True, but you have a 6x higher chance of getting myocarditis if you are infected with covid.

 

The research paper shared by Vinay Prasad is doing a bit of an apples to mangoes comparison.  It is comparing the specific odds of getting myocarditis from vaccine (odds of getting myocarditis from vaccination x 1) to the overall odds of becoming hospitalized from Covid (odds of getting infected x odds of getting hospitalized).  That just seems ... let's just say ... odd.  

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 9/12/2021 at 8:07 AM, Autonomous said:

I did not get any side effects (got sinovac shots)

 

However, I got infected last month and had all the symptoms including fever, cough, loss of smell, and taste. 

 

Thankfully I got recovered but it was awful experience. 

 

I'm 25 years old and took a very strong diet once I knew that I was infected, which may have helped me to recover quickly. I also had to drive from islamabad to my hometown which is around 220kms while I was covid+ 

Glad you are okay. 

[EnterTheVoid]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx538y/man-dies-after-being-turned-away-by-43-icus-slammed-with-covid-patients?utm_medium=social&utm_source=vice_facebook&fbclid=IwAR3xN1uRv3bAMayLBy1w8vYvRF5HJYKUPN21CxlHX0dYUeDf9qonpljFi_0

 

Anti vaxx pests flood hospital ICUs. And clog resources for non COVID emergencies.