The Indian Pace Bowling Pool need more Bounce Bowlers ... We suffered in South Africa because we could not use bounce as a weapon against ther top 6 batters

[Frustrated]

Apart from the inability of our bowlers to extract as much bounce as SA bowlers did, another reason could be the lack of variety in our pace bowling attack. It's too one dimensional with all right handers, for long time.   Khalel Ahmed is not the answer.  Maybe Nattu (yes, I know he is a LOI specialist) could be groomed for test tours to SENA?   He had a decent debut in the Gabba test.   

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Apart from the inability of our bowlers to extract as much bounce as SA bowlers did, another reason could be the lack of variety in our pace bowling attack. It's too one dimensional with all right handers, for long time.   Khalel Ahmed is not the answer.  Maybe Nattu (yes, I know he is a LOI specialist) could be groomed for test tours to SENA?   He had a decent debut in the Gabba test.   

 

Nattu is too slow and short to be a good test match specialist bowler.  

 

Someone like a Yash Dayal can be groomed into a test match prospect. He has 45 wickets from just 12 FC matches and averages 27. And he is just 24.

 

But the thing is ... most top pace attacks never had a left arm.option but still did well. They combined bouncy quick bowlers with shorter skiddy quick pacers to create variety. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Bumrah was bowling very quickly in this series and getting some indip too.

 

I wonder why he did not try his trademark quick yorkers a lot more. !

Edited January 19, 2022 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

Shami had always been skiddy but also had the ability to raise it from good length,one can say his deliveries used to kick from surfaces,but yes we need someone to hit the deck

[Adamant]

I don't think there is any necessity of having a left arm fast bowler in the team. 

History has hardly seen half a dozen of great left arm test bowlers. 

 

I don't agree with the need of an out an out express pacer but it still could work if we play him only on hard and bouncy pitches.

 

I think we lacked someone Like peak Ishant, who doesn't give away much runs and helps apply pressure on the batting side so that even other bowlers can benefit from it. 

 

A tall 6'2 + bowler is always handy. 

 

 

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Shami had always been skiddy but also had the ability to raise it from good length,one can say his deliveries used to kick from surfaces,

 

Very much so.

 

Shami used to get good bounce from just short of a length ( whenever he tried that length ) even till WTC Final in mid 2021.  

 

After that his bowling style changed. 

 

He looked very low bounce in the T20 World Cup.

[Adamant]

In one year or so we should look at replacing Shami with a young pacer, can keep Shami in the squad though, having a 27 averaging fast bowler never hurts. 

[Frustrated]

4 minutes ago, Adamant said:

I don't think there is any necessity of having a left arm fast bowler in the team. 

History has hardly seen half a dozen of great left arm test bowlers. 

The only time we avoided a test series defeat in SA was in 2010 (1-1).  Zaheer did a decent job on that tour.   Most top teams right now are having match winning left arm fast bowlers. Starc, Boult , Shaheen, Jansen (latest).    Only Ind and Eng are not having currently. 

[Suhaan]

Just now, Frustrated said:

The only time we avoided a test series defeat in SA was in 2010 (1-1).  Zaheer did a decent job on that tour.   Most top teams right now are having match winning left arm fast bowlers. Starc, Boult , Shaheen, Jansen (latest).    Only Ind and Eng are not having currently. 

We lost here due to inept batting, bowlers did their level best on a gradually improving pitch

We have Undakat,Sakaria,Nagaswalla nw available

Who will take a risk by even going one of these legendary trio?

It goes down to options available,

I have hopes with Khaleel though,feel he will return strongly

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

No ... the ball was seaming and there was inconsistent bounce. The conditions were offering some swing from time to time too.  These can't be great batting conditions. 

In SA, you will always have something but bit of movement here and there doesn't mean much or doesn't help bowlers much. Home batsmen are equipped enough to negotiate that. They are born and brought up on much more difficult pitches. By 2nd innings, both pitches had lost the venom. Capetown pitch was also slow with moderate bounce. It wasn't a 198 all out pitch in third innings. There is one important thing if the pitch there is difficult to bat on day one, it will get better as the game progresses and if the pitch is good to bat on day one, it will get worse as the game progresses. 

[rkt.india]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Very much so.

 

Shami used to get good bounce from just short of a length ( whenever he tried that length ) even till WTC Final in mid 2021.  

 

After that his bowling style changed. 

 

He looked very low bounce in the T20 World Cup.

It all depends on the pitch. He is in the end 5 foot 7.

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

It all depends on the pitch. He is in the end 5 foot 7.

 

Shami is 5'9" and the pitches had great bounce.

 

A lot depends on bowling style and bowling length too.

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

In SA, you will always have something but bit of movement here and there doesn't mean much or doesn't help bowlers much. Home batsmen are equipped enough to negotiate that. They are born and brought up on much more difficult pitches. By 2nd innings, both pitches had lost the venom. Capetown pitch was also slow with moderate bounce. It wasn't a 198 all out pitch in third innings. There is one important thing if the pitch there is difficult to bat on day one, it will get better as the game progresses and if the pitch is good to bat on day one, it will get worse as the game progresses. 

 

 

It was not a 198 all out pitch. Our batting failed ( and was bound to fail with 3 out of form older batters ).

 

But the pitches were not 240 for 3 or 212 for 3 pitches either ... especially given the rather low average batting line-up that SA had. 

 

P.S - How many times have the Indian bowling attack conceded 250+ in any test outside Asia in the last 4 years !!   Very rare even on flatter tracks. 

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

  Most top teams right now are having match winning left arm fast bowlers. Starc, Boult , Shaheen, Jansen (latest).    Only Ind and Eng are not having currently. 

 

 

IMHO the biggest test should be whether the left arm pacer would make it to the playing 11 even if he was a right armer ?

 

Starc, Shaheen, Boult and Jansen will all make it to their team even if they were right armers. 

 

Same with Zaheer in the 2000s. He was our best pacer after the Srinath era and before the Bumrah-Shami era. 

 

Our current left armers all look like forced selections because they bowl left handed. I was watching Nagaswalla on the A tour and he was just floating the ball up gently. And hardly troubling batters. One wonders how he had been selected ahead of Prasidh or Avesh !

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

49 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

It was not a 198 all out pitch. Our batting failed ( and was bound to fail with 3 out of form older batters ).

 

But the pitches were not 240 for 3 or 212 for 3 pitches either ... especially given the rather low average batting line-up that SA had. 

 

P.S - How many times have the Indian bowling attack conceded 250+ in any test outside Asia in the last 4 years !!   Very rare even on flatter tracks. 

They had all the time in the world to pace their innings,we gave them too much time with a paltry target on an improving pitch,

And not 10/10 times this bowling attack can defend a target <250,

Shami is getting old and fit Siraj was missed

Shardul's bowling is a bonus as his batting

[Singh bling]

Bavuma is like Gavaskar of  these days

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Nattu?

Nathu Singh. typo in earlier post

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, Suhaan said:

We lost here due to inept batting, bowlers did their level best on a gradually improving pitch

We have Undakat,Sakaria,Nagaswalla nw available

Who will take a risk by even going one of these legendary trio?

It goes down to options available,

I have hopes with Khaleel though,feel he will return strongly

yash dayal as well

[express bowling]

The tall Prasidh Krishna bowled with steep bounce and fire today, especially in his opening spell. Made the batters hop and jump and top edge.

 

He would be such a great addition to our test bowling and good for ODIs too.

 

Bumrah

Prasidh

Siraj / Shami

 

3 pacers with different levels of bounce and skiddiness ... all quick or sharp ... would be much tougher to handle for the opposition than an attack with 3 medium height / short pacers.

Edited January 23, 2022 by express bowling

[Jay]

45 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The tall Prasidh Krishna bowled with steep bounce and fire today, especially in his opening spell. Made the batters hop and jump and top edge.

 

He would be such a great addition to our test bowling and good for ODIs too.

 

Bumrah

Prasidh

Siraj / Shami

 

3 pacers with different levels of bounce and skiddiness ... all quick or sharp ... would be much tougher to handle for the opposition than an attack with 3 medium height / short pacers.

i think him and siraj had they played vs saffers, we would have won the series. no joke. legit serious. 

plus ofcourse removing dead wood would help with regards to batting.