#HijabRow in Karnataka Schools - where do you stand?

[ash]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Can you share reference of any govt school where students wear dress when rule doesn't allow them?

 

And in case you missed it, Hijab is also not banned in many schools in India.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/amp/nation/current-affairs/011216/ayyappa-dress-sparks-row-in-cal-public-school-of-hyderabad.html
 

see the chain of events. Student wears Ayyapa dress, school sends him home. Parents return with protestors shouting “ this is not Pakistan this is Hindustan” school gives in and the student attends classes from next day.

[ash]

5 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

Now I have no problem with school allowing them. I am sure Madrassas will allow Burkha. If it’s tradition school for Ayyapa community, sure they can. It’s school’s prerogative how they want to run their institutions. Just as this school can decide for itself. 

So we agree that whichever Govt school/college is asking for a ban on Hijab  should ban Ayyapa dress too. Fine with me. 

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, ash said:

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/amp/nation/current-affairs/011216/ayyappa-dress-sparks-row-in-cal-public-school-of-hyderabad.html
 

see the chain of events. Student wears Ayyapa dress, school sends him home. Parents return with protestors shouting “ this is not Pakistan this is Hindustan” school gives in and the student attends classes from next day.

 

It's a private school where school management buckled up under pressure of parents. 

 

Did govt force school to allow them?

[coffee_rules]

23 minutes ago, ash said:

There is no debate when numbers are provided. I have given official stats, which is pretty clear that caste based crimes outnumber communal clash crimes  by a long margin. 
 

so next time when you speak about “Indian Muslims blowing themselves up” , think about the crimes committed by your fellow UC Hindus too. Hindu-Muslim fights are real, it is a problem but the numbers are no where near the caste base atrocities.

Forget stats, it is a never ending debate of d1ck measuring just like you don’t want to compare religions , talk about how  constitutional reforms are titled towards minorities. There are laws to deter from SC/ST crimes. There is nothing to deter minorities

[ash]

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

It's a private school where school management buckled up under pressure of parents. 

 

Did govt force school to allow them?

 

Doesn’t matter. My point is simple. Similar to Hijab, there are Hindu customs that covers the uniforms like Ayyapa dress. If a school ( govt or private)  bans Hijab, it should ban all religious markers. Else allow everything. They cannot pick and choose.
 

If you have issues with this then let’s discuss.

[ash]

1 minute ago, coffee_rules said:

Forget stats, it is a never ending debate of d1ck measuring

Nope can’t “forget” stats. It is just simple maths . 40000 vs 800. 40000 is greater than 800. What is there to argue in this and why should I forget this? 
 

 Do you agree that caste based crimes outnumber communal crimes by a large margin in this country? Accept it or disprove it with data. Need numbers 

[ravishingravi]

19 minutes ago, ash said:

So we agree that whichever Govt school/college is asking for a ban on Hijab  should ban Ayyapa dress too. Fine with me. 

No actually we don’t agree at all. Maybe you didn’t understand well so I will word it differently.  
 

I am saying each school has the right to decide it’s uniform or dress code. Now if you think it’s discriminatory, change the school. 
 

You want to come in veshti go to ayyapa school. You want to wear burkha go to madrassa. 

[ravishingravi]

1 minute ago, ash said:

Nope can’t “forget” stats. It is just simple maths . 40000 vs 800. 40000 is greater than 800. What is there to argue in this and why should I forget this? 
 

 Do you agree that caste based crimes outnumber communal crimes by a large margin in this country? Accept it or disprove it with data. Need numbers 

No I don’t agree it’s too easy to rip this to shreds. In fact I am hoping you have more substantive case than 4000 greater than 800. 

[ash]

Just now, ravishingravi said:

No actually we don’t agree at all. Maybe you didn’t understand well so I will word it differently.  
 

I am saying each school has the right to decide it’s uniform or dress code. Now if you think it’s discriminatory, change the school. 
 

You want to come in veshti go to ayyapa school. You want to wear burkha go to madrassa. 

Agree to disagree on Private schools. But govt schools should have a common rule. 

[ravishingravi]

8 minutes ago, ash said:

 

Doesn’t matter. My point is simple. Similar to Hijab, there are Hindu customs that covers the uniforms like Ayyapa dress. If a school ( govt or private)  bans Hijab, it should ban all religious markers. Else allow everything. They cannot pick and choose.
 

If you have issues with this then let’s discuss.

Yeah but this is not your beloved communist party of China. Each school can set its own rules. In my school they made all boys have crew cut. For those who wanted long hair, there were other schools. 

[ash]

1 minute ago, ravishingravi said:

No I don’t agree it’s too easy to rip this to shreds. In fact I am hoping you have more substantive case than 4000 greater than 800. 

I am not giving these figures. It is NCRB data. You are welcome to “rip this to shreds” by giving me proof. 

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, ash said:

 

Doesn’t matter. My point is simple. Similar to Hijab, there are Hindu customs that covers the uniforms like Ayyapa dress. If a school ( govt or private)  bans Hijab, it should ban all religious markers. Else allow everything. They cannot pick and choose.
 

If you have issues with this then let’s discuss.

 

Can you post example of any govt school which is picking and choosing? 

 

Just just like how hijab is allowed in some schools and not allowed in some, Hindu customs are allowed at some and not allowed at some.

 

Then how does it become Hindu custom v Muslim customs?

 

When you say that they can't pick and choose, you're making a statement with inherent assumption that Hindu customs are allowed everywhere, and Islamic customs are banned everywhere which clearly isn't the case. 

 

So question is what are you trying to say?

 

1. Are you saying that hijab is banned at some places and allowed at some, but it should be allowed everywhere? If this is what you're saying then post your comments around this.

2. Are you saying that since Hindu customs are allowed at some places, hence Islamic customs should be allowed everywhere? - If yes, please explain why?

3. Are you saying that govt is picking and choosing between Hindus and Muslims customs? - This is not true.

 

I am still waiting for your response other assumptions and claims that people are demanding blanket ban on hijab.

 

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, ash said:

Agree to disagree on Private schools. But govt schools should have a common rule. 

 

Why do govt schools need a common rule? 

 

Why shouldn't a govt school be given free hand to make a decision to allow something if they feel that it will affect majority of students? 

 

For ex - if a school is in a muslim majority area where most of girls wear hijab, admin can decide that allowing hijab will crucial in bringing them to school and they should be free to make such decision. 

 

I don't understand need for one solution fitting all. 

[coffee_rules]

5 hours ago, ash said:

Nope can’t “forget” stats. It is just simple maths . 40000 vs 800. 40000 is greater than 800. What is there to argue in this and why should I forget this? 
 

 Do you agree that caste based crimes outnumber communal crimes by a large margin in this country? Accept it or disprove it with data. Need numbers 

What are you proving by quoting some random stats? That we should ignore religious riots as caste crimes are more in number? Crimes on women happen even at a higher rate than caste crimes, so let’s slip that under the carpet! Stop doing whataboutry that you usually accuse me of. Discuss about the OP, do you support a school having right to disallow hijab just like a school has a right to allow it!  BTW Muslim taveez is worn as much as caste threads! What is a caste thread on hand that you are referring to ?  So , should we ban taveez too?

Edited February 14, 2022 by coffee_rules

[jf1gp_1]

17 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

And what would be the importance of that information? 

I bet all accuses can't be hindus

[coffee_rules]

5 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

I bet all accuses can't be hindus

MSM and resident atheists totally want to ignore Muslims on Dalit crimes, for a reason as it doesn’t fit any narrative 

[Mohan Swamy]

Every educational institution has the right to enforce it's own dress code. If something you want is not allowed, look for a school or college that allows it, it's that simple.

[ash]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

MSM and resident atheists totally want to ignore Muslims on Dalit crimes, for a reason as it doesn’t fit any narrative 

Lol. Even if we are being generous and blame 10 percent of that number to Muslims, the end result is still more than the communal clashes. Face the facts, Hindu vs Hindu caste crimes are always more than the communal clashes.

 

This is not whataboutery, I am responding to your comment about “ Indian Muslims blowing themselves up” , which is not backed by numbers. Yes , it is a problem but it is nowhere near to what you propagate. Keep this in mind next time when you name call a community without facts.
 

Reg the OP, I have already given my thoughts on it.

[Dery]

Let anyone wear any religious attire

[Alam_dar]

12 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

No actually we don’t agree at all. Maybe you didn’t understand well so I will word it differently.  
 

I am saying each school has the right to decide it’s uniform or dress code. Now if you think it’s discriminatory, change the school. 
 

You want to come in veshti go to ayyapa school. You want to wear burkha go to madrassa. 

 

No, in a secular state, the rights of an individual has the top most priority. And state should make it sure that no one is allowed to usurp the personal liberty of an individual. Therefore, if any private business or school is allowed to run, then government has to make sure that they are not making any rules which violate the personal liberty of an individual. Secondly, government has the duty to make sure that no double standards regarding different religions should pop up in the private institutions too, which target only one religion. 

In the western secular countries, thus only Niqab is banned in the schools and the colleges, and it was not in name of "privatization", but in the name of "security".  Rest, no other private Institution or business is allowed to demand to remove the Hijab (if it doesn't hinder the job). If any private institution or business or office shows any discrimination on the bases of Hijab, then the charges will be put against them for committing a crime. 

 

On the scale of Wisdom too, it is a foolish move to ban only the Hijab, while allowing all other religious markers in the private institution. This will only push the moderate Muslims too towards the radicalization.