Vijy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, putrevus said: VVS was atrocious runner between the wickets.I don't think Dinesh Mongia was a bad selection. he was a bad selection because his bowling wasn't needed; he couldn't handle pace & bounce (his only notable ODI innings were in SC); and his biggest ODI score was against weak opponents. His record against reasonable teams is poor:https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/31034.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=allround VVS was a much better batsman. Mongia was not a Kaif-level fielder, so the 10 runs or so he saved didn't matter that much. what we needed was someone to combat Oz, which was the GOAT team. go look up both VVS' ODI record against Oz and also see his innings. either VVS should have been selected or an extra bowler/AR. no need for a mostly surplus batter who did virtually nothing of notice throughout tourney Edited June 19, 2022 by Vijy Gollum 1 Link to comment
SeasonedIPLer Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 @Austin 3:!6 @VVS Laxman @zen where is match day thread for 5th T20I Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, SeasonedIPLer said: @Austin 3:!6 @VVS Laxman @zen where is match day thread for 5th T20I it seems to be up now SeasonedIPLer 1 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Vijy said: he was a bad selection because his bowling wasn't needed; he couldn't handle pace & bounce (his only notable ODI innings were in SC); and his biggest ODI score was against weak opponents. His record against reasonable teams is poor:https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/31034.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=allround VVS was a much better batsman. Mongia was not a Kaif-level fielder, so the 10 runs or so he saved didn't matter that much. what we needed was someone to combat Oz, which was the GOAT team. go look up both VVS' ODI record against Oz and also see his innings. either VVS should have been selected or an extra bowler/AR. no need for a mostly surplus batter who did virtually nothing of notice throughout tourney problem with laxman was he cud only bat at no.3 , any below he struggled . Ganguly numbers already started dropping as he went from open to one down and then dropping one down more wud have made it worse. He did it for dhoni but by that time his own form was so bad that it seem a better and dhoni looked a great impact player then vvs. VVS poor fielding, running between wkts n no extra skill didnt help either , neither he was consistent But the big problem was that the only position that suited him was 3 and it was tough to fit in. Mongia cud bat anywhere laxman cudnt One of the reason dravid survived ODI was he cud bat anywhere in order V V S Laxman (India) - ODI Cricket Performance Analysis by Batting Position Position Inns NO 100s 50s 0s HS Runs Avg S/R Ca St Opening 5 0 0 0 0 31 54 10.80 38.85 4 0 3 59 4 6 9 3 131 1966 35.75 74.53 24 0 4 12 2 0 1 0 99 248 24.80 70.66 4 0 5 4 0 0 0 0 23 43 10.75 38.74 4 0 6 3 1 0 0 0 23* 27 13.50 62.79 1 Edited June 19, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment
putrevus Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 On 6/15/2022 at 3:21 AM, Gollum said: 2011 team had some batting firepower Viru (prime) SRT (prime) Gambo (peak) Kohli (developing) Yuvi (peak) MSD (prime) Raina (peak)/Yusuf (peak) wow, will we ever see another batting lineup like that representing Indian colours? In fact all WC winning teams since 1996 WC have had legendary batting units. This Indian batting lineup doesn't even warrant comparison with those elite ones....what are we going to do next year in the WC? No way we will have that kind of lineup.Gambhir had that over my dead body attitude which helped India a lot.He was the unsung hero . rollingstoned and Gollum 1 1 Link to comment
Gollum Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Vijy said: he was a bad selection because his bowling wasn't needed; he couldn't handle pace & bounce (his only notable ODI innings were in SC); and his biggest ODI score was against weak opponents. His record against reasonable teams is poor:https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/31034.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=allround VVS was a much better batsman. Mongia was not a Kaif-level fielder, so the 10 runs or so he saved didn't matter that much. what we needed was someone to combat Oz, which was the GOAT team. go look up both VVS' ODI record against Oz and also see his innings. either VVS should have been selected or an extra bowler/AR. no need for a mostly surplus batter who did virtually nothing of notice throughout tourney For a period of 1-2 years around that time VVS was actually more than a decent ODI bat. Especially against Aussies, he didn't fear them most importantly. Doubt McGrath, Lee would have bothered checking out about Dinesh Mongia pre-match, but a player of VVS' class even in his weak format, would have come up in dressing room discussions of the opponents. Anyway on those kind of pitches it was a no-brainer. We should have used VVS and Kumble in that event, but for some strange reason Dada preferred the fixer and the chucker. Edited June 19, 2022 by Gollum Vijy and Lord 1 1 Link to comment
putrevus Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 33 minutes ago, Vijy said: he was a bad selection because his bowling wasn't needed; he couldn't handle pace & bounce (his only notable ODI innings were in SC); and his biggest ODI score was against weak opponents. His record against reasonable teams is poor:https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/31034.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=allround VVS was a much better batsman. Mongia was not a Kaif-level fielder, so the 10 runs or so he saved didn't matter that much. what we needed was someone to combat Oz, which was the GOAT team. go look up both VVS' ODI record against Oz and also see his innings. either VVS should have been selected or an extra bowler/AR. no need for a mostly surplus batter who did virtually nothing of notice throughout tourney VVS was not going to help India chase 353.Dinesh Mongia was the bits and pieces player you needed to plug the holes.It did not work out but I would not say he was a bad selection. Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 43 minutes ago, putrevus said: VVS was not going to help India chase 353.Dinesh Mongia was the bits and pieces player you needed to plug the holes.It did not work out but I would not say he was a bad selection. he may have made a diff in the group stage match where everyone barring Tendu collapsed. And a group stage win against Oz, difficult but not impossible, could have made a diff - this is what happened in 83 WC (group win vs WI + finals win). Bits and pieces players served no purpose since the 00s. Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: problem with laxman was he cud only bat at no.3 , any below he struggled . Ganguly numbers already started dropping as he went from open to one down and then dropping one down more wud have made it worse. He did it for dhoni but by that time his own form was so bad that it seem a better and dhoni looked a great impact player then vvs. VVS poor fielding, running between wkts n no extra skill didnt help either , neither he was consistent But the big problem was that the only position that suited him was 3 and it was tough to fit in. Mongia cud bat anywhere laxman cudnt One of the reason dravid survived ODI was he cud bat anywhere in order V V S Laxman (India) - ODI Cricket Performance Analysis by Batting Position Position Inns NO 100s 50s 0s HS Runs Avg S/R Ca St Opening 5 0 0 0 0 31 54 10.80 38.85 4 0 3 59 4 6 9 3 131 1966 35.75 74.53 24 0 4 12 2 0 1 0 99 248 24.80 70.66 4 0 5 4 0 0 0 0 23 43 10.75 38.74 4 0 6 3 1 0 0 0 23* 27 13.50 62.79 1 what did Mongia do lower down the order? I don't remember him doing anything of note. his only major innings came as opener. I will also ask: what did mongia's supposed "extra skills" do for Ind in WC? one must back specialists. we already had batters who could bowl in Sehwag, SRT, ganguly, yuvi. no need for 1 more player. Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Just now, Vijy said: what did Mongia do lower down the order? I don't remember him doing anything of note. his only major innings came as opener. Does that mean u send laxman down the order , that wud have never worked either and then all his minuses Just now, Vijy said: I will also ask: what did mongia's supposed "extra skills" do for Ind in WC? one must back specialists. we already had batters who could bowl in Sehwag, SRT, ganguly, yuvi. no need for 1 more player. He did do 5th bowler job in few games , yuvi didnt bowl much in those days. Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Vijy said: he may have made a diff in the group stage match where everyone barring Tendu collapsed. And a group stage win against Oz, difficult but not impossible, could have made a diff - this is what happened in 83 WC (group win vs WI + finals win). Bits and pieces players served no purpose since the 00s. we went through final, what more difference u wanted ? We only lost 2games that against Aus............that Aus was unbetable . Yes laxman loved them but still wasnt a player who ll make that huge a diff in end Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'm not gonna pursue it further with @Ankit_sharma03 and @putrevus We can agree to disagree. If you think that Mongia actually made a diff in that WC, good for you. I am not saying VVS would have undoubtedly made a diff. However, as he showed in 2004 (less than 1 yr after 2003 WC), he could be a good ODI bat. he had his best year in 2004 iirc with an avg of >40. Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Vijy said: I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'm not gonna pursue it further with @Ankit_sharma03 and @putrevus We can agree to disagree. If you think that Mongia actually made a diff in that WC, good for you. I am not saying VVS would have undoubtedly made a diff. However, as he showed in 2004 (less than 1 yr after 2003 WC), he could be a good ODI bat. he had his best year in 2004 iirc with an avg of >40. yea but u also have to consider in 2004 laxman was in the best form of his life. That one month he scored 4 -100s In 2003 he was in very poor form . Both wudnt have made any difference but then its a captain calls who he feels more comfertable with. Wont call it some injustice as even laxman wud have made no difference as he had so many limitation starting with fitting in the batting order Edited June 19, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment
Prabhdeep Singh Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Possible Post Virat & Rohit top 6: ODI and T20: Shaw KL Gill Samson Pant Hardik India require high % boundary hitters. Link to comment
putrevus Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Vijy said: what did Mongia do lower down the order? I don't remember him doing anything of note. his only major innings came as opener. I will also ask: what did mongia's supposed "extra skills" do for Ind in WC? one must back specialists. we already had batters who could bowl in Sehwag, SRT, ganguly, yuvi. no need for 1 more player. We will discuss this seperately someother time. I don't want to hijack the thread. Vijy 1 Link to comment
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