Why do India lose against NZ in ICC finals

[adi B]

Because they see us as a smaller side as compared to Pakistan ,against whom they surrender meekly.

They are sh1t scared of Pakistani bowling as compared to ours historically 

[RajBan]

Because we are a fattu no 1. The same NZ that always gets bullied by Pakistan, bullies our legendary players whenever they meet us. Tells a lot about these players.

[RajBan]

5 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

True, hope they take this match with seriousness and don't get cold feet at the match.
It's high time for real hitman to wake up and perfom.

He looks overweight by 10 kg. 

[Laaloo]

2 hours ago, Sean Bradley said:

Pakistan also lost to NZ in one of the Worldcups where Kamran Akmal dropped Ross Taylor and he went on to make a century. Why India loses, i think we have been unlucky more than anything else.

2011

[Chakdephatte]

2 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

We are traditionally a top order batting side,not as strong in our bowling or batting depth ,and of course fielding.

 

Our best time came when Dhoni was 7 and Raina, Yuvraj in middle.

[AKane]

New Zealand does badly against sides that play with muscle. Usually Aus and Pak with their bowling.

 

New Zealand is a side that uses finesse. Typically Aus(most times when they don't have the Finch types playing) and Pak just brush the finesse aside with muscle. This time the entire Aus muscle was Warner - he failed and they folded.

 

India tries to out-finesse NZ and that does not work. India has never been a muscle side with their bowling.

 

[RajBan]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

New Zealand does badly against sides that play with muscle. Usually Aus and Pak with their bowling.

 

New Zealand is a side that uses finesse. Typically Aus(most times when they don't have the Finch types playing) and Pak just brush the finesse aside with muscle. This time the entire Aus muscle was Warner - he failed and they folded.

 

India tries to out-finesse NZ and that does not work. India has never been a muscle side with their bowling.

 

Missing Bumrah is a problem. Siraj would have been handy as well in Aus. Also Deepak Chahar is much better bat than BK while both are same bowling wise. 

 

 

[rollingstoned]

In all our big defeats our so called biggest strength ie our top order went awol. Even in this tournament they have not come to the party so far. 

[AKane]

1 hour ago, RajBan said:

Missing Bumrah is a problem. Siraj would have been handy as well in Aus. Also Deepak Chahar is much better bat than BK while both are same bowling wise. 

 

 

Maybe but I am not so sure about Bumrah after his zero wicket outing in the test championship match plus his non-performance in the Pak limited over matches. Siraj yes - less talented but the man will try to muscle you out rather than out think you.

 

Even during the time when Shane Bond was bowling his fastest..... on rec.sport.cricket NZ fans were terrified of Pakistan. They know their gimmicks do not impress the Pakistani.

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

In all our big defeats our so called biggest strength ie our top order went awol. Even in this tournament they have not come to the party so far. 

In 2019 SF our new ball bowlers bowled absolute sh!t especially that Knuckle Kumar in tailor made conditions for swing! They again shat the bed in 2017 CT finals, 2016 WT20 SF, 2015 WC SF & of course the worse of them all 2003 finals with the first over itself losing us the game 

 

Except 2014 WT20 final & to a lesser extent 1996 SF all our major loses have come at the hands of insipid bowling!

[AKane]

39 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

In 2019 SF our new ball bowlers bowled absolute sh!t especially that Knuckle Kumar in tailor made conditions for swing!

One can say that they limited NZ to 238 and Pandya and Chahal gave up most runs in that.  Then the 1, 1, 1 of the top 3 and the run crawl of Pant and Karthik ended it except for the late fireworks of Jadeja. Too late though.

[R!TTER]

The match was lost in the first 10 overs, we should've struck there moreover the opening bowlers had horrendous record in the first 10 overs with Shami being the only exception IIRC. Admittedly it wasn't just the bowlers that lost us the game, unlike 2003, but they still had a major role to play! You see any final in recent times - good teams don't suck in first 10 overs, in fact the opening slot is actually the best time to strike as batters are generally nervous even the best of them.

[tapandrun]

Not specific to NZ as opposition but in general ::

 

Inability to handle Pressure and Ind team's top game is not so far ahead of their standard day-to-day game.

 

Fast bowlers can not increase their pace when needed in big games, fielding is v.poor-no single moment of brilliance and Ind team has 2 very nervous starter/openers at the top.

 

1 or 2 wkts falls early  then there is only rescue job from then, no one is able to counter attack opposition and derails their plans.

Edited November 9, 2022 by tapandrun

[IndianRenegade]

5 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Our best time came when Dhoni was 7 and Raina, Yuvraj in middle.

Dhoni did the right thing for the team, initially in his career he was a top order batter, with great avg. He came down the order instantly strengthening the lower middle order, all we have now is a selfish lot who want to hog the strike at the top & blocking new talent. 

[sarcastic]

8 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

They got lucky in 2019 , and in 2000 we were a young team. Last year it was toss.

2021 we flopped.

Not sure, how you call Indian team in 2000 as a young team. Only Yuvraj and Zaheer are youngsters and every one else were playing for few years and are at right age(i.e. not too old and not too young).
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-knockout-2000-01-61073/india-vs-new-zealand-final-66179/full-scorecard
The miraculous Australia tour of India happened just few months from then.

[SRT100]

11 hours ago, RajBan said:

He looks overweight by 10 kg. 

He is not 10kg overweight, thats a solid 15+ kg he should be losing.

 

He is not only looking pregnant, looks like he is delivering any time soon.

[vice]

weather and clouds favoring them.  last wc in england was just pure luck due to conditions favoring them both in batting and bowling.

 

india should just bat in reverse order in swinging conditions or open with lefties.

[rollingstoned]

9 hours ago, R!TTER said:

In 2019 SF our new ball bowlers bowled absolute sh!t especially that Knuckle Kumar in tailor made conditions for swing! They again shat the bed in 2017 CT finals, 2016 WT20 SF, 2015 WC SF & of course the worse of them all 2003 finals with the first over itself losing us the game 

 

Except 2014 WT20 final & to a lesser extent 1996 SF all our major loses have come at the hands of insipid bowling!

Would blame the bowling majorly only for those 2 and in the second we had Pakistan on the ropes but our spearhead overstepped at a Critical moment. The 2019 sf Nzl had better bowling conditions than we did so it was ciritcal with a smallish score that our top order play the new ball carefully and get past the first 10 but they all got out. 

Most of those games were in conditions where the bowlers were not expected to pull up any trees so to single them out for blame is unfair. The 2016 wc sf we had Rahane opening for us - lol! -  which ensured we scored only 190ish when we should have aimed closer to 210.