Waqar Younis blames the mindset of India when it comes to pace

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, the don said:

This myth about Srinath is a bit like Atul Sharma. 
Espn produced a list of speed gun recorded deliveries and Waqar was just behind the likes of Akhtar, Lee and Hayward i think. Srinath well behind in terms of pace and skill.

Srinath was not even close skill wise  from those two great Ws. Akram did not need speedgun to rush batsmen.He could crank up speed.Waqar to me at his full peak was great sight. Akthar might have had more pace but Waqar was more deadly with this thunderbolt yorkers.

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, the don said:

This myth about Srinath is a bit like Atul Sharma. 
Espn produced a list of speed gun recorded deliveries and Waqar was just behind the likes of Akhtar, Lee and Hayward i think. Srinath well behind in terms of pace and skill.

no myth there. there are non-shady articles attesting to his speed, with a fastest of 156 kph. please note that discussion here is about speed alone - the same comment also applies to @putrevus I cannot, for the life of me, understand the hate boner being displayed by so-called indian fans, while our batters get perpetual free passes despite failing in tests for years on end.

 

when it comes to all-round skills, two W's, Imran, fazal mehmood, etc. are obviously better than Sri (in my book). however, that does not mean they were faster, with the potential exception of early 90s Waqar and obviously Shoaib.

 

let's stick to the facts. people posting about srinath were not (barring maybe one exception) claiming that his speed automatically makes him better. here are two article on srinath's speed, and this is after his pace declined by 2-3 kph from his peak years.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

 

@express bowling @Mosher @Suhaan, other genuine fans of pace bowling know what I am referring to.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Vijy

[Majestic]

Srinath bowled express fast at its peak but he didn't bowled right length. He would not pitch it up to the batsman enough to make the ball talk. This is the reason why he ended up with a relatively poor returns outside subcontinent.

 

One of the biggest reasons why India won a total sum of zero tests outside subcontinent in 1990s. To win overseas, you look at your fast bowlers and expect them to deliver which didn't happened for India in 1990s.

 

Zaheer Khan delivered more between 2007-2011 than Srinath did. His stats are worse because in subcontinent,pitches were flatter while in 90s, a lot of Indian wickets were turners so as a fast bowler, you can get away with figures of 1-20 on turning wickets.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Majestic

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, Vijy said:

no myth there. there are non-shady articles attesting to his speed, with a fastest of 156 kph. please note that discussion here is about speed alone - the same comment also applies to @putrevus I cannot, for the life of me, understand the hate boner being displayed by so-called indian fans, while our batters get perpetual free passes despite failing in tests for years on end.

 

when it comes to all-round skills, two W's, Imran, fazal mehmood, etc. are obviously better than Sri (in my book). however, that does not mean they were faster, with the potential exception of early 90s Waqar and obviously Shoaib.

 

let's stick to the facts. people posting about srinath were not (barring maybe one exception) claiming that his speed automatically makes him better. here are two article on srinath's speed, and this is after his pace declined by 2-3 kph from his peak years.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

 

@express bowling @Mosher @Suhaan, other genuine fans of pace bowling know what I am referring to.

 

That paacky Donna wil overlook the very fact that in 99WC he was the second fastest innthe tournament after Akhtar clocking 149+,no bowler came close 

English batsmen were fending against him in rain continued match, celebrity batsmen like Thorpe,Hick looked like fools

And that too after returning from shoulder surgery, naturally he was even quicker before

 

That article is from India's tour to SA in 1996, Srinath was scary quick in those times

Two Ws were so pale in front of him in that aspect

[tapandrun]

BCCI and India domestic circuit lacks the understanding about fast bowling, they can have an U-19 batter selected and play intl matches, but they can not have relatively quick young bowler in the intl side.

 

They want a ready-made complete bowler, complete in terms of skills not in pace. They can see and talk about the potential of batter and give him numerous chances, but not with a young fast bowler. When it comes to fast bowling they want players like Bhuvi and Vinay Kumar.

 

I remember Ricky Ponting  calling Pakistan fast bowler as the worse bunch to ever play in Australia, but look at them now. All bowling at good clicks and may be the best t20/white ball pace attack atm.

 

This is because Pakistan Cricket understand the fast bowling , if someone has pace other skills can be thought/learnt. you can teach skills but not pace.

 

We try to teach pace at the highest level which is not possible, a bowler can increase his pace but can not sustain it for more than 2-3 seasons, if they were not pacy to start with.

With 130 km/hr bowlers trying to increase the pace to say 135-140 km/hr at international level - they can do it for a while but as soon as injury strikes they are back to 130 km/hr and sometimes even less.

 

Also there is a tendency with Indian bowler to reduce pace in-order to prolong their Intl careers.

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

10 hours ago, Majestic said:

Bumrah

Archer

Tyagi

Archer isn't gonna play this time as well...welcome to be corrected.

[singhvivek141]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

Srinath was quicker for what, going for more runs. 

That record will go to Waqar Younis, I will give you that.

 

In 1996 WC Jadeja beat him to the pulp, so much so that he lost his self confidence for some time.

Then in 2003 WC he was beaten for 70 odd runs in 8 overs...

 

If you never saw Srinath on his prime and just relying on stats then you're just bluffing yourself. Srinath was quickest in 1994-1996 and played all matches consistently (we lost Kapil by then and Srinath's partner were Prabhakar and Venkatesh, who both were 120-125kph at best).

 

Srinath's performance dipped post his shoulder injury in 1997, so much so that he moved out of the top 20 bowlers list, (I had Cricket Samrat of that time and this point was specifically mentioned there), infact Sachin's failure as a captain was impacted a lot due to Srinath's poor form ...but he started to get his mojo back from 1999 onwards (though he was never had the sharpness of his younger times).

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, the don said:

This myth about Srinath is a bit like Atul Sharma. 
Espn produced a list of speed gun recorded deliveries and Waqar was just behind the likes of Akhtar, Lee and Hayward i think. Srinath well behind in terms of pace and skill.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

Read this and check your facts again, this is from espncricinfo. Just because the other Indian pacers were slow, doesn't meant Srinath was either.
Srinath, Aaron, Umesh, Bumrah, Shami, Nehra (pre injury) were the fastest of the Indian pacers.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

BCCI and India domestic circuit lacks the understanding about fast bowling, they can have an U-19 batter selected and play intl matches, but they can not have relatively quick young bowler in the intl side.

 

They want a ready-made complete bowler, complete in terms of skills not in pace. They can see and talk about the potential of batter and give him numerous chances, but not with a young fast bowler. When it comes to fast bowling they want players like Bhuvi and Vinay Kumar.

 

I remember Ricky Ponting  calling Pakistan fast bowler as the worse bunch to ever play in Australia, but look at them now. All bowling at good clicks and may be the best t20/white ball pace attack atm.

 

This is because Pakistan Cricket understand the fast bowling , if someone has pace other skills can be thought/learnt. you can teach skills but not pace.

 

We try to teach pace at the highest level which is not possible, a bowler can increase his pace but can not sustain it for more than 2-3 seasons, if they were not pacy to start with.

With 130 km/hr bowlers trying to increase the pace to say 135-140 km/hr at international level - they can do it for a while but as soon as injury strikes they are back to 130 km/hr and sometimes even less.

 

Also there is a tendency with Indian bowler to reduce pace in-order to prolong their Intl careers.

 

 

 

 

 

A superb post !

 

And welcome to this forum !

[the don]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

Read this and check your facts again, this is from espncricinfo. Just because the other Indian pacers were slow, doesn't meant Srinath was either.
Srinath, Aaron, Umesh, Bumrah, Shami, Nehra (pre injury) were the fastest of the Indian pacers.

Bowling speed records up until 2002 clearly state that the fastest srinath ever clocked was 149 kph while Waqar was recorded at 153 kph and over 150 a few times. Srinath never breached the 150 kph barrier. Ever since they ve recorded speeds. 
unoffically even zahid clocked 164 kph in nz and sami over 162 in Pakistan but lets stick to documented facts.

 

 

[the don]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/javagal-srinath-one-in-a-billion-111878

Read this and check your facts again, this is from espncricinfo. Just because the other Indian pacers were slow, doesn't meant Srinath was either.
Srinath, Aaron, Umesh, Bumrah, Shami, Nehra (pre injury) were the fastest of the Indian pacers.

The fastest recorded delivery from Srinath was 149.kph.  153 kph from Waqar.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, the don said:

Bowling speed records up until 2002 clearly state that the fastest srinath ever clocked was 149 kph while Waqar was recorded at 153 kph and over 150 a few times. Srinath never breached the 150 kph barrier. Ever since they ve recorded speeds. 
unoffically even zahid clocked 164 kph in nz and sami over 162 in Pakistan but lets stick to documented facts.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, the don said:

The fastest recorded delivery from Srinath was 149.kph.  153 kph from Waqar.

Please read the article once again.

Between December '96 and February '97 Srinath's speeds were timed in excess of 150kph and were comparable to those of both Allan Donald and South Africa's 'new' pace sensation Lance Klusener. Whilst Klusener's fastest ball came in at 154kph and he proved at the time to be faster than Donald, it has been brought to my attention on numerous occasions that Srinath pipped them both with one particular delivery measured at 156kph. This particular delivery was reported by a major Indian News service although the exact date and the match in question has not been confirmed. Some six years on, and all three of these men now struggle to reach 140kph on a good day.

[Mesky99]

9 hours ago, the don said:

This myth about Srinath is a bit like Atul Sharma. 
Espn produced a list of speed gun recorded deliveries and Waqar was just behind the likes of Akhtar, Lee and Hayward i think. Srinath well behind in terms of pace and skill.

If you still think Srinath wasn't quick then you have issues with your eyesight.

[Suhaan]

47 minutes ago, the don said:

The fastest recorded delivery from Srinath was 149.kph.  153 kph from Waqar.

Waqar was never faster than Srinath,infact most of the time I found him borderline fast medium

,Your best fast bowler after Akram was Gul far more threatening than overrated Waqar

Edited November 15, 2022 by Suhaan

[the don]

30 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Waqar was never faster than Srinath,infact most of the time I found him borderline fast medium

,Your best fast bowler after Akram was Gul far more threatening than overrated Waqar

Doesnt matter how you found him. Most ex batsmen who faced him, The speed gun and commentators have a different opinion based on facts.

A past his prime Waqar has been officially clocked at 153 kph.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

[the don]

42 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

If you still think Srinath wasn't quick then you have issues with your eyesight.

Never said he wasnt quick but he has never been clocked over 150 kph.

[the don]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Please read the article once again.

Between December '96 and February '97 Srinath's speeds were timed in excess of 150kph and were comparable to those of both Allan Donald and South Africa's 'new' pace sensation Lance Klusener. Whilst Klusener's fastest ball came in at 154kph and he proved at the time to be faster than Donald, it has been brought to my attention on numerous occasions that Srinath pipped them both with one particular delivery measured at 156kph. This particular delivery was reported by a major Indian News service although the exact date and the match in question has not been confirmed. Some six years on, and all three of these men now struggle to reach 140kph on a good day.

I dont care about articles. There is an article on zahid clocking 164 kph. I believe in documented evidence. Seen cricket long enough, followed pace bowlers for lag mg and heard various batsman’s opinions.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, the don said:

I dont care about articles. There is an article on zahid clocking 164 kph. I believe in documented evidence. Seen cricket long enough, followed pace bowlers for lag mg and heard various batsman’s opinions.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

 

 

Regular speed gun readings were available on TV only from the WC 1999.

 

So, how can one find video evidence of 1994 to early 1997, Srinath's quickest period  !!

 

The fact that he clocked 149.x kph  in 1999, after losing pace, just points to the fact that he must have clocked higher speeds in his quickest years. 

 

Another aspect was that Srinath was very bouncy and accurate too.  That adds to the " heat " generated by a pacer.  I would love to have a Srinath bowling for us nowadays when thd support pacers are so much better in tests and ODIs.

[Suhaan]

16 minutes ago, the don said:

Never said he wasnt quick but he has never been clocked over 150 kph.

He has clocked well over 150,even in his last years he was consistently clocking in late 140s

 

1998,Aus tour of India he pipped McGrath by a large margin by clocking 148 in that series  who clocked 141

 

Next year in WC99 he was only behind Akhtar clocking 149+,that says it all,he was undisputed fastest in Asia till Akhtar came

[singhvivek141]

20 minutes ago, the don said:

I dont care about articles. There is an article on zahid clocking 164 kph. I believe in documented evidence. Seen cricket long enough, followed pace bowlers for lag mg and heard various batsman’s opinions.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

You don't care about articles, but you care about this 1993 stamp where it's nowhere mentioned what speedometer was used and what was it's accuracy.
Speedometers were unreliable and no knows how accurately they're calculated, hence they're not used in matches regularly.
When the speedometer became a trend with regularity, Srinath beat Waqar in pace and that's the truth.

Edited November 15, 2022 by singhvivek141