Best Step Forward Is Rotating Captains and Foreign Coach

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Kirsten, Wright etc. did it successfully.

two of our best in 21st century

[Texan]

Agreed. Captains are becoming a liability in Indian cricket. First with Dhoni, who was almost impossible to bench despite playing badly and losing games, then Kohli, who couldn't win a single World tournament despite having a good team and now with Rohit, who has become a non-performing captain. Overall, we should move to a model where we pick a team director, who is compensated for results and captain would rotate every few matches. For tours, no fixed captain should be assigned. For World level tournaments, 2 or 3 players could be assigned to rotate captaincy.

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Kirsten, Wright etc. did it successfully.

 

They were also pretty "strong" men too in nature from what I could see at least.

[putrevus]

11 hours ago, Khota said:

And that was the problem. He could not be benched irrespective of the failures he was having.

Finch could not be benched either. You decide upfront your captain and back them thru thick and thin.

 

Personally I never thought Rohit was better captain than Kohli. But once he was made captain you need to back, that is where coach comes into picture. Rohit in order to accommodate idiotic Rahul changed his game and became totaly useless himself.

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, Texan said:

Agreed. Captains are becoming a liability in Indian cricket. First with Dhoni, who was almost impossible to bench despite playing badly and losing games, then Kohli, who couldn't win a single World tournament despite having a good team and now with Rohit, who has become a non-performing captain. Overall, we should move to a model where we pick a team director, who is compensated for results and captain would rotate every few matches. For tours, no fixed captain should be assigned. For World level tournaments, 2 or 3 players could be assigned to rotate captaincy.

How many world tournaments did Kohli captain. How did he have good team?

[Texan]

14 hours ago, putrevus said:

How many world tournaments did Kohli captain. How did he have good team?

 

2017 Champions Trophy

2019 World Cup

ICC World Test Championship

2021 World T20

 

In all these tournaments, we lost because we ended up playing meek cricket in crucial games. Before he became Test captain, in the prior 10 years, we had one 1 World T20, 1 World Cup and 1 Champions Trophy. He inherited a very good team, but needed to get rid of an aging Dhoni ASAP, which he failed to do.

[Vk1]

England is mind boggling when it comes to clarity of thought.. I still cannot imagine how they gave test coaching to Baz and odi/t20 coaching to some unknown guy.. imagine hypothetic scenario of India giving test coaching to Dhoni & LoI to Chandrakant Pandit.. Gavaskar chadarmod would scream from rooftop

[putrevus]

5 hours ago, Texan said:

 

2017 Champions Trophy

2019 World Cup

ICC World Test Championship

2021 World T20

 

In all these tournaments, we lost because we ended up playing meek cricket in crucial games. Before he became Test captain, in the prior 10 years, we had one 1 World T20, 1 World Cup and 1 Champions Trophy. He inherited a very good team, but needed to get rid of an aging Dhoni ASAP, which he failed to do.

How did he inherit a good test team. India was 7th in ICC test rankings and was 1-13 in overseas tests.He made it to finals in two of three world cups. What exactly did he inherit in odis. It was due to him India was good whiteball team He literally carried India to finals and semifinals of two t20 world cups.

 

last world t20 was played under extreme bubble faitgue, how did England do in 2021.Kohli's captaincy was not the problem, his battting went south and once that happens no batting captain can survive.

 

Who was there to replace Dhoni in 2017? 

 

 

[Texan]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

How did he inherit a good test team. India was 7th in ICC test rankings and was 1-13 in overseas tests.He made it to finals in two of three world cups. What exactly did he inherit in odis. It was due to him India was good whiteball team He literally carried India to finals and semifinals of two t20 world cups.

 

last world t20 was played under extreme bubble faitgue, how did England do in 2021.Kohli's captaincy was not the problem, his battting went south and once that happens no batting captain can survive.

 

Who was there to replace Dhoni in 2017? 

 

 

India ranked 7th because we played many away series before that and historically, we have been very poor in away series. No doubt that Dhoni captaincy wasn't working at that time and making Virat captain was the right decision. He led us pretty well in Tests, but he also choked badly in the Championship match. With one whole day washed out, we should have easily drawn it. He went into a press conference before the game had even started and said things like "one match doesn't define character of the team and blah blah blah", which is typical loser mentality. 

 

When he inherited the ODI and T20 teams, India had one of the best top 3 in an in-form Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli himself and a good bowling line-up as well with Bhuvi and Bumrah doing well at the death and Kuldeep and Chahal doing well in the middle overs. However, his big failure lies in not being able to push out an aging Dhoni, who had become a liability. Pant was already shining in domestic cricket and wasn't getting his chance. He should have gotten Pant way back then. Also, the team kept failing in crucial knockout games and captain didn't show the mental fortitude to be able to overcome those.

 

 

[Khota]

On 11/14/2022 at 7:39 AM, putrevus said:

Finch could not be benched either. You decide upfront your captain and back them thru thick and thin.

 

Personally I never thought Rohit was better captain than Kohli. But once he was made captain you need to back, that is where coach comes into picture. Rohit in order to accommodate idiotic Rahul changed his game and became totaly useless himself.

You don't back individuals indefinitely. You don't perform you sit out for one game.

[putrevus]

21 hours ago, Texan said:

India ranked 7th because we played many away series before that and historically, we have been very poor in away series. No doubt that Dhoni captaincy wasn't working at that time and making Virat captain was the right decision. He led us pretty well in Tests, but he also choked badly in the Championship match. With one whole day washed out, we should have easily drawn it. He went into a press conference before the game had even started and said things like "one match doesn't define character of the team and blah blah blah", which is typical loser mentality. 

 

When he inherited the ODI and T20 teams, India had one of the best top 3 in an in-form Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli himself and a good bowling line-up as well with Bhuvi and Bumrah doing well at the death and Kuldeep and Chahal doing well in the middle overs. However, his big failure lies in not being able to push out an aging Dhoni, who had become a liability. Pant was already shining in domestic cricket and wasn't getting his chance. He should have gotten Pant way back then. Also, the team kept failing in crucial knockout games and captain didn't show the mental fortitude to be able to overcome those.

 

 

Pant is still not a permanent member in whiteball cricket so your point about Pant is ridiclous.Pant did play in 2019 semis. Kohli himself was completely out of form as batsmen during ICC test finals and he did not get any support from any other batsman. If only he had gotten some sense of support he would have won lot more. 

 

One game does not define any team or player. That is not loser mentality. WI had the strongest team thruout 1980s and yet did not win world cup in 1980s. India was one of top three team in all formats under Kohli.It was not just flash in the pan.He just did not get enough support players 

 

.India is playing more many overseas series than they played under Dhoni.  He and Shastri made the teams compete in all conditions, before winning you need to compete. They just did not have luck on their side. It may be tosses or conditions.Were they best side in history no but they were very good side. Did they choke in big moments ,yes they did but that does not make them a bad team or Kohli  a bad captain.

 

Smith had much more  complete team for SA in all formats but they just did not win.Did they choke in big moments , yes they did.Do you want to call Kohli a choker, you can call him that but it does not make him a bad captain.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by putrevus

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, Khota said:

You don't back individuals indefinitely. You don't perform you sit out for one game.

Nobody backs individuals indefinitely.Finch had to be the captain after his win last year. Samething with Rohit once moronic Ganguly put uneccessary pressure and made Kohli quit captaincy.Rohit has to be backed thru lean form and results.

[cricketfan28]

I am hearing news (indie instagram channels) that Dhoni(conda) is coming back as mentor.

[putrevus]

What did Wright win as coach again. Why is he more successful than Shastri.

 

Gary won world cup in 2011 that was at home and what exactly did he win other than that cup. India had best batting lineup in the world .Bowling was adequate if not world class in all conditions.

[Texan]

11 hours ago, putrevus said:

Pant is still not a permanent member in whiteball cricket so your point about Pant is ridiclous.Pant did play in 2019 semis. Kohli himself was completely out of form as batsmen during ICC test finals and he did not get any support from any other batsman. If only he had gotten some sense of support he would have won lot more. 

 

One game does not define any team or player. That is not loser mentality. WI had the strongest team thruout 1980s and yet did not win world cup in 1980s. India was one of top three team in all formats under Kohli.It was not just flash in the pan.He just did not get enough support players 

 

.India is playing more many overseas series than they played under Dhoni.  He and Shastri made the teams compete in all conditions, before winning you need to compete. They just did not have luck on their side. It may be tosses or conditions.Were they best side in history no but they were very good side. Did they choke in big moments ,yes they did but that does not make them a bad team or Kohli  a bad captain.

 

Smith had much more  complete team for SA in all formats but they just did not win.Did they choke in big moments , yes they did.Do you want to call Kohli a choker, you can call him that but it does not make him a bad captain.

 

LOL, you expect Pant to play in one crucial KO game after being on the bench for over a month and shine suddenly? Dhoni was losing game after game at that time and you don't think he should have been dropped? What was Dhoni's SR during last few years in ODIs? How many ICC Trophies did India win under Shastri? 

 

And if you start saying about "one match or one result does not define who the team is" before a very crucial World Cup/Championship final, it seems to indicate that he is laying groundwork for an anticipated defeat. It does suggest a loser mentality that cannot take the pressure of a high profile game. You don't say or think about such things before such a crucial game.

 

[Pollack]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:22 PM, putrevus said:

That is what happens when people start tinkering with winning captain and coach. Rohit was never going to be better captain in any format than Kohli nor Dravid better coach than Shastri.

 

They may not have won cups but they sure were better than these two bozos.

 

Rohit needs to go from all white ball cricket.He is just not fit enough. They need to get a young captain for white ball cricket. I sure hope it is not Pandya.

 

 

You need to understand the issue with India in LOI is pathetic old mindset. Indian batsmen stick to their strengths and don't care about team requirement. Top 3 (Rahul, Kohli, Rohit) stick to their cautious approach even on fattest of the pitch. Bowlers like Bhuvi stick to what they know (economical). Each person plays for himself only and don't think about the team needs as a whole. Even Pandya has recently adopted the cautious first approach knowing well that idiot public just pamper stats and playing high risk cricket means he will always be lagging in accumulating decent numbers. This sh!t is happening since a decade now. Dhoni, kohli or Rohit it doesn't matter. Kohli isn't a better captain than Rohit. But Shastri definitely was a better coach than Dravid. Dravid loves trundlers is a known fact. Same Rohit doesn't prefer trundlers in MI. 

 

[Khota]

22 hours ago, putrevus said:

Nobody backs individuals indefinitely.Finch had to be the captain after his win last year. Samething with Rohit once moronic Ganguly put uneccessary pressure and made Kohli quit captaincy.Rohit has to be backed thru lean form and results.

There is nothing in sports that says Rohit had to be backed thru thick and thin. Two bad games should get you the bench. Everytime.

[Khota]

20 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

I am hearing news (indie instagram channels) that Dhoni(conda) is coming back as mentor.

India does not need mentor. They need a proper coach.

[putrevus]

11 hours ago, Texan said:

LOL, you expect Pant to play in one crucial KO game after being on the bench for over a month and shine suddenly? Dhoni was losing game after game at that time and you don't think he should have been dropped? What was Dhoni's SR during last few years in ODIs? How many ICC Trophies did India win under Shastri? 

 

And if you start saying about "one match or one result does not define who the team is" before a very crucial World Cup/Championship final, it seems to indicate that he is laying groundwork for an anticipated defeat. It does suggest a loser mentality that cannot take the pressure of a high profile game. You don't say or think about such things before such a crucial game.

 

How many matches did Inzi play before his semifinal knock. You don't need 100 matches to play a match winning innings in one of match. Yuvi scored 80 odd in his first innings as batsman in ICC knockout match.

 

Not  Winning ICC trophies cannot be the only assessment on Shastri's coaching career. He won test series twice in Australia which might be much more tougher than winning world cup. IMO winning ICC trophies need some luck go your away unless you have a super team like Australia even Aussies needed luck in 1999 worldcup.

 

Shastri and Kohli did not have that luck and got outplayed in few finals.Towards the end of his captaincy stint Kohli became afraid to lose and that is why needed to go as a captain.

 

How many ICC Trophies did John wright and Ganguly win outright ? Not every captain and coach will win ICC trophies. It does not take away their greatness.

 

That is your perception after the fact.No competitor goes into a match thinking about losing.

[Lord]