A strong case for intent in ODIs too

[Majestic]

England and Australia played their first ODI couple of days back where England scored 288 runs losing 9 wickets and Australia chased it down in 46 overs inspite of losing 4 wickets.

 

When Warner got out, the score of Australian team was 200/2 at 28.3 overs. Well, that's the intent you need even in 50 overs cricket. 

 

Can the Indian top order in the ODI spot replicate the same because in today's era, inspite of losing few early wickets, teams do back themselves to chase down 300+ as their intent is clear? 

 

Given Shikhar Dhawan and Rohit Sharma 's current form and their run scoring approach, I am afraid we are looking towards a 160 at 30 overs and while this may be helpful in chasing a 280-290 but a 320+ target goes completely beyond reach.

 

ODI World Cup is just a year away and we are starting the ODI series vs New Zealand next week with Shikhar Dhawan as captain so I guess signs are pretty clear of what is coming for India in next one year.

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Majestic

[zen]

“Intent” helps teams to better handle pressure situations and be confident in its ability as a team. 
 

In bilaterals for e.g.,  many times you see Eng playing casually to lose early wkts, which helps its middle and lower order to handle pressure situations better. And that further gives all the batsmen the confidence to play their attacking game!

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

England and Australia played their first ODI couple of days back where England scored 288 runs losing 9 wickets and Australia chased it down in 46 overs inspite of losing 4 wickets.

 

When Warner got out, the score of Australian team was 200/2 at 28.3 overs. Well, that's the intent you need even in 50 overs cricket. 

 

Can the Indian top order in the ODI spot replicate the same because in today's era, inspite of losing few early wickets, teams do back themselves to chase down 300+ as their intent is clear? 

 

Given Shikhar Dhawan and Rohit Sharma 's current form and their run scoring approach, I am afraid we are looking towards a 160 at 30 overs and while this may be helpful in chasing a 280-290 but a 320+ target goes completely beyond reach.

 

ODI World Cup is just a year away and we are starting the ODI series vs New Zealand next week with Shikhar Dhawan as captain so I guess signs are pretty clear of what is coming for India in next one year.

 

I posted about Indian team changing their top order "intent" method way back in 2015, then again in 2016, and then again multiple times in the lead up to the 2019 WC.  

 

It is frustrating as an Indian fan to see an England team deploy modern approaches to batting, and execute, deliver world class results with a far smaller talent pool than our own.  I'm talking about white ball batting.  India has so many talented batsmen who given the right framework for team selection, team batting tactics, and selection incentives, would comfortably outpace England.  But in spite of the wealth of talent and resources, we have been languishing as also-rans, regularly coming 4th in an effective 4 horse race for more than half a decade now.  It makes one cynical about the cricket-media "industrial complex".  

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

I posted about Indian team changing their top order "intent" method way back in 2015, then again in 2016, and then again multiple times in the lead up to the 2019 WC.  

 

It is frustrating as an Indian fan to see an England team deploy modern approaches to batting, and execute, deliver world class results with a far smaller talent pool than our own.  I'm talking about white ball batting.  India has so many talented batsmen who given the right framework for team selection, team batting tactics, and selection incentives, would comfortably outpace England.  But in spite of the wealth of talent and resources, we have been languishing as also-rans, regularly coming 4th in an effective 4 horse race for more than half a decade now.  It makes one cynical about the cricket-media "industrial complex".  

 

England has no seniority culture. India has. Andrew strauss/Alistair cook  might still be playing under Indian selection policies.  They don't mind weeding out players at the right time. Once they attain the superstar status sponsoring dozens of brands they become "indispensable".  It is not just the brand. Also appropriate house cleaning every 2 or 3  years have go along with it. There was no reason for Rahane to play this many Tests.

[cricketfan28]

Our seniors, once settled can accelerate very fast in the end, they all become a SKY in full form once they play 50+ balls. Only risk is if they all fall before that it can be game over, but we have 4 such players for redundancy.

The biggest threat for us is 10/3 if we can avoid that we will win. Since this WC is in India we should get some advantage as well.

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

Our seniors, once settled can accelerate very fast in the end, they all become a SKY in full form once they play 50+ balls. Only risk is if they all fall before that it can be game over, but we have 4 such players for redundancy.

The biggest threat for us is 10/3 if we can avoid that we will win. Since this WC is in India we should get some advantage as well.

 

Well I agree with this, the unfortunate reality is that we are more likely to be 10/3 after 5 overs in WC final.

[SRT100]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

England has no seniority culture. India has. Andrew strauss/Alistair cook  might still be playing under Indian selection policies.  They don't mind weeding out players at the right time. Once they attain the superstar status sponsoring dozens of brands they become "indispensable".  It is not just the brand. Also appropriate house cleaning every 2 or 3  years have go along with it. There was no reason for Rahane to play this many Tests.

 

In countries like Australia, England and NZ there is too much accountability and freedom of speech.

Zero chance of uncles overstaying their welcome. Finch remained in the team, purely because Australia won the last WC and it was last year.

[Nikhil_cric]

This intent was needed more in the 2014-2020 period. Players who go hard blindly like Jason Roy have struggled since 2021. The white ball is much more potent upfront nowadays. 

 

 

[R!TTER]

11 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This intent was needed more in the 2014-2020 period. Players who go hard blindly like Jason Roy have struggled since 2021. The white ball is much more potent upfront nowadays. 

 

 

Really depends on the pitches, I still think we should have square turners for this WC as toss could be a major factor in D/N - this can mitigate that issue to an extent.

[Nikhil_cric]

44 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This intent was needed more in the 2014-2020 period. Players who go hard blindly like Jason Roy have struggled since 2021. The white ball is much more potent upfront nowadays. 

 

 

Mark Howard just mentioned on commentary that Starc in his first 2 overs got 2.2 degrees of swing- most he has found in his career.  

 

And this is a Starc who is definitely past his prime. Intent upfront is not that easy in LOIs as it was in that 2014-2020 period when the white ball was absolutely pathetic.

 

Strike rotation and wicket preservation is more important nowadays. Problem is the likes of Dhawan in ODIs and KL in the T20 World Cup were playing dots after dots 

 

[raki05]

Eng looks better because they won 2 important tosses. Their team is still shitty , had it not been Adielade they wouldn't bhave chased that score. In Adielade even bd almost defeated India. Eng wouldn't have chased 160 at mcg against pak, score which they made against India. English team has hacks and hacks don't work on challenging pitches. 2-3 hacks are fine but team constituted of only hacks would fail at tricky pitches, i never fear against English teams unless pitches are superflat pocket size.

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by raki05

[R!TTER]

They're great on flat roads, but on tracks with something in it they generally get in trouble against good teams. This is why their test record is so sh!t, the 4 tests they won against us & NZ were on the back of dead balls, without lots of things going in their favor they are literally Pak level i.e. a tier below us! Yes you could argue their T20 team is still great but they're often highly overrated in ODI & especially tests!