3 or more wickets + 30 or more runs in LOIs

[zen]

A thread on good all-round performances where a player picked up 3 or more wickets and matched that by scoring 30 or more runs in a game:

 

 

Kapil Dev 

 

• In 225 ODIs  = 5 times, which is 2.2% ... Note that Kapil played many ODIs that were 60 overs ... Link

 

 

Yuvraj Singh 

 

• In 304 matches = 5 times, which is 1.6% ... Link
• In 58 matches = 2 times, which is 3.4% ... Link

 

(For reference, overall in 362 LOIs = 7 times, which is 1.9%)

 

 

Ravindra Jadeja 

 

• In 174* ODIs = 0 times, which is 0.0% ... Link
• In 64* T20s = 0 times, which is 0.0% ... Link

 

(For reference, overall in 238* LOIs so far = 0 times, which is 0.0%)

 

 

Sir Don Pandya 

 

• In 74* ODIs = 3 times, which is 4.1% ... Link
• In 87* T20s = 5 times, which is 5.7% ... Link 

 

(For reference, overall in 161* LOIs = 8 times, which is 5.0%)

 

 

PS 

 

For SDP, 6 of these performances so far have come in 2022 and onwards: 

 

ODIs - played 11 so far 

 

• 4 wickets + 71 runs v Eng at Manchester 
• 3 wickets + 40 runs v Aus at Chennai 

 

T20s - played 33 so far 

 

• 4 wickets + 51 runs v Eng at Southhampton (the best overall performance by an Indian player in T20s) 
• 3 wickets + 33* v Pak at Dubai 
• 3 wickets + 40 runs v Pak at Melbourne 
• 4 wickets + 30 runs v NZ at Ahmedabad 

Edited March 23, 2023 by zen

[Trichromatic]

How are 3 wickets matched by 30 runs?

 

Why not 20 runs and 3 wickets?

 

Why not 50 runs and 2 wickets?

[Chakdephatte]

Jadeja remains at the bottom, whatever filters applied. Zimbabwe has better all rounders than him.

[zen]

11 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

How are 3 wickets matched by 30 runs?

 

3 wickets is a nice entry point, which is also a mid-point b/w 1-2 wkts (relatively common) and the milestone category of 4-5 wickets ... 30 runs work well when considering both ODIs and T20s. Not a milestone category number like a 50, while being above the relatively common 20-25 runs range ... Additionally, 3+ & 30+ sound good too. A win-win!

 

Though, I am not too much into why this or why not that. 

 

 

[zen]

A couple of Australian players:

 

Glen Maxwell

• ODIs 128*; 1 time; 0.8%
• T20s 98*; 1 time; 1.0%

 

Marcus Stoinis 

• ODIs 60*; 1 time, 1.7%
• T20s 51*; 0 time; 0.0%

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen

[zen]

Ben Stokes 

 

• ODIs 105*; 3 times; 2.9%
• T20s; 43*; 0 time; 0.0%

[Lord]

random criteria to hype a mid player

[zen]

10 minutes ago, Lord said:

random criteria to hype a mid player

 

No jealousy allowed  

 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, zen said:

 

3 wickets is a nice entry point, which is also a mid-point b/w 1-2 wkts (relatively common) and the milestone category of 4-5 wickets ... 30 runs work well when considering both ODIs and T20s. Not a milestone category number like a 50, while being above the relatively common 20-25 runs range ... Additionally, 3+ & 30+ sound good too. A win-win!

 

Though, I am not too much into why this or why not that. 

 

 

 

India has taken 8 wickets on avg in last years in ODIs. 3 wickets is 37% of that.

 

India has scored 250 runs on an avg in last 10 years in ODIs. 30 runs is 12% of total runs.

 

Basically numbers are selected for predominantly for bowling performances.

[Frustrated]

I suggest the tons of threads on ICF dedicated to Harpic Dandiya and Duckula Ghujara be merged.   Since they are both GOAT players of this era.  All GOAT players hv similar attributes.  It makes sense to discuss their game changing abilities under one roof.   

[Trichromatic]

42 minutes ago, Lord said:

random criteria to hype a mid player

 

It's not random criteria. Runs have been kept low so that a batsman who batsman mainly in top 6 can cross that criteria and wickets at bit higher so that include those occasional performances. 

 

It's a ploy to select good bowling days of batting AR who couldn't do much with bat on that day. This criteria will exclude bowling AR who don't get much chances to bat in top 6.

 

Too many random threads popping on forum. 

[zen]

29 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

India has taken 8 wickets on avg in last years in ODIs. 3 wickets is 37% of that.

 

India has scored 250 runs on an avg in last 10 years in ODIs. 30 runs is 12% of total runs.

 

Basically numbers are selected for predominantly for bowling performances.

 

You could say that it is relatively more bowling focused. Most ARs bat in the lower middle order, where 30 or more runs is a good performance (more runs and wickets get automatically accounted for). Overall, this gives a good account of a strong all-around performance while offering a certain level of exclusivity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen

[Laaloo]

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, zen said:

 

You could say that it is relatively more bowling focused. Most ARs bat in the lower middle order, where 30 or more runs is a good performance (more runs and wickets get automatically accounted for). Overall, this gives a good account of a strong all-around performance while offering a certain level of exclusivity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Strong all round performance would be 3 wickets and 60+ runs in ODIs.

 

30 runs is hardly an impact knock in ODIs by any stretch. Players get MoM for taking 3 wickets or even 2 wickets, I can recall only Jimmy Maher getting MoM for 37 runs, else it's usually 50+.

[Trichromatic]

For Sachin, there are 5+ instances of 3 wickets and 46+ runs, out of those 4 are 75+ runs and 3 wickets.

 

75+ runs and 3 wickets (Both around 30-35% of team score/wickets)

 

Sachin: 4 times in 270 innings

SDP: 0 times in 69 innings.

[Bigg Brother]

Hahaha..Such a random thread.

 

Zen bhai at it again 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Strong all round performance would be 3 wickets and 60+ runs in ODIs.

 

30 runs is hardly an impact knock in ODIs by any stretch. Players get MoM for taking 3 wickets or even 2 wickets, I can recall only Jimmy Maher getting MoM for 37 runs, else it's usually 50+.

 

We are talking about the overall impact of 3 or more wickets + 30 or more runs in a game. 

 

A 60 run innings with 3 wickets get counted too.

Runs and wickets are not in isolation. Now if a player gets 75-80 runs (irrespective of the # of wks, which can be 0-1) he can be evaluated for his batting performance. Similarly, a player who gets say 4-5 wickets (irrespective of the number of runs, which can be 10-20), can be evaluated for his bowling.  

Most batting positions are to be considered esp.  middle order and upper tail (4-8) where ARs are usually slotted. The output potential at most positions, in general, needs to be considered too including in low-scoring games. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen

[zen]

58 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

For Sachin, there are 5+ instances of 3 wickets and 46+ runs, out of those 4 are 75+ runs and 3 wickets.

 

75+ runs and 3 wickets (Both around 30-35% of team score/wickets)

 

Sachin: 4 times in 270 innings

SDP: 0 times in 69 innings.

Sachin is not an AR. He is primarily a batsman. And we know what he did batting in the lower middle order where ARs are usually slotted:

 

Sachin at #5-7

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	1989-2012	463	452	41	18426	200*	44.83	21368	86.23	49	96	20	2016	195
filtered	1989-2007	43	41	9	965	82*	30.15	1118	86.31	0	6	3	67	14

 

 

SDP at #5-7

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2016-2023	74	55	7	1584	92*	33.00	1414	112.02	0	9	4	121	60
filtered	2016-2023	63	45	7	1270	92*	33.42	1160	109.48	0	8	4	102	43

 

 

 

PS IIRC, even Srikant has picked up 2 5-ers (though don’t recall how many runs he scored with those 5-ers).

 

 

Appears as if you are mostly focused on top-order (#1-3), where ARs are hardly slotted. As I mentioned somewhere, output potential at most positions, in general, needs to be considered including in low-scoring games. A 30 runs minimum allows players at most positions to be considered, while also accounting for performances in low-scoring games.  

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

36 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Strong all round performance would be 3 wickets and 60+ runs in ODIs.

 

30 runs is hardly an impact knock in ODIs by any stretch. Players get MoM for taking 3 wickets or even 2 wickets, I can recall only Jimmy Maher getting MoM for 37 runs, else it's usually 50+.

 

Pandya's average stay at the crease in one dayers is 25 balls.  25 balls in a 300 ball game.  

Edited March 24, 2023 by vvvslaxman

[zen]

@Trichromatic

 

Besides ignoring runs potential at various positions, another potential error that you made is looking at the "average", which can change with a new set of data, of 8 wickets and 250 runs. 

 

An average can be formed in multiple ways. For e.g. 6 wkts lost in one game and 10 wickets lost in another gives an avg of 8. Similarly, a 150 all-out at a tough venue in one game and 350 at a good batting venue in the next gives an average of 250. 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen