I fail to understand exclusion of Ashwin: Sachin Tendulkar

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

Umesh averaged 23 with the ball in England so it was definitely not a poor selection by any means. He did well last time he played in England.
If I had to pick one bowler out of Ashwin and Umesh for a bowler's spot I would definitely prefer Umesh and there are many who would do the same, it's not as heinous a crime as people are making it to be, the only problem is that we never played a practice match and had no time before the finals, Umesh would have done well if he had some time.
Both Shami and Umesh need to be phased out now but the problem is that our new pacers are made of glass and are usually not available for tours.

 

That is not true.

 

[Adamant]

57 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That is not true.

 

Bro I think you have included the recent WTC final in these stats.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Bro I think you have included the recent WTC final in these stats.

 

Correct. But just 2 tests. One was played back in 2021 against a rubbish English side. But given his poor record against Austarlia , averaging 39 home/away  he should have made way. or even Thakur. Either of them were replaceable. He is a hit the deck bowler. Never a bowler that uses live grass very well. Doesn't have the skill like Ishant or Bhuvi to exploit such conditions.

[Adamant]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Correct. But just 2 tests. One was played back in 2021 against a rubbish English side. But given his poor record against Austarlia , averaging 39 home/away  he should have made way. or even Thakur. Either of them were replaceable. He is a hit the deck bowler. Never a bowler that uses live grass very well. Doesn't have the skill like Ishant or Bhuvi to exploit such conditions.

The only thing I want to specify is that choosing UMesh over Ashwin was definitely not a cardinal sin, infact Umesh had a better record in 2 matches he played than Ashwin, also was one of the reason behind our oval triumph, so I think people are overreacting as if we left out warne for Umesh

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Adamant said:

The only thing I want to specify is that choosing UMesh over Ashwin was definitely not a cardinal sin, infact Umesh had a better record in 2 matches he played than Ashwin, also was one of the reason behind our oval triumph, so I think people are overreacting as if we left out warne for Umesh

 

If they had used previous performances as an indicator, Ashwin's show at Edgbaston last time should have been factored in when we played England in the 5th test. They bulldozed our fast bowlers to chase down 377 with ridiculous ease.  IT was a case of blindly following a template without understanding why that template worked before why it may not work now.  Starting with opposition, pitch, balance everything is different now. Aged fast bowlers, Missing of two bowlers that were instrumental for good performances in England. Australia most definitely will not be worried about facing these  4 similar height fast bowlers. Given Ashwin's domination against them (Warner 11 out 17 matchces, Smith 8 out of 16 matches, Head 3 out of 6 matches, Khawaja 4 out of 7 matches, Labu 4 out of  7 matches) they could have considered him. Plus he adds depth to batting also provides control from one end. His ER is very low there.  Above all Ashwin has improved a lot. On a docile AHmedabad pitch he bowled well to take 6fer. It is a different thing we still might have lost. But because of that we cannot ignore a poor selection. SA is the only one place where almost all tracks are similar where kookaburra hardly offers any purchase.  Biggest point here is we apply these "filters" only for bowlers not batsmen. Pujara including this innings averages 19 at the oval in 8 innings (4 tests) That is a good enough sample to never play him again here. Right after WTC 2021, everyone went home. Ashwin stayed back and played one county match at the Oval and bundled opposition for 69 with a 6 wicket haul. It is a first division league unlike Pujara's second division league. So if someone consciously puts efforts to improve his chance of selection should be celebrated. He is also a clutch batsman. But for his innings in Bangladesh we would not have even made to final.  Then also he added 114 runs with Axar patel against Australia when we were staring at a big deficit.  All things considered his selection became an obvious one.

 

I am also supporting 4 fast bowler in right conditions. But they should also be right bowlers. Just for the sake we cannot 4 random fast bowlers in every overseas condition.

 

 

[sensible-indian]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:34 PM, Adamant said:

Its strange to see you still harping on about this.
The 4 pacer strategy is exactly what we need in SENA(except some places in AUS), Ashwin doesn't win matches in Eng,Sa,Nz. How many more chances are we going to give him?
Bcoz of the 4 pacer strategy by the GOAT ASIAN TEST CAPTAIN, we were finally able to lead Eng by 2-1, again In Sa when we chose Ashwin he failed us yet again.

Bro...it's strange you are still not seeing the error in your ways when data is overwhelming favouring my viewpoint.

 

The 4 pacer strategy failed in SA (to be fair, that SA pitches didn't need spinners so I would have backed Jaddu over Ash).

 

The 4 pacer strategy failed in WTC finals.

 

The 4 pacer strategy failed against Eng 2022 test.

 

The ONLY time the 4 pacer strategy worked was during the 2021 series against an awful English batting lineup.

 

Where Hameed was missing straight balls.

 

The data is so overwhemingly clear on this.

Lyon is picking wickets in Eng.

 

Moeen Ali is picking wickets in Eng.

 

You pick a side for 5 days.

 

Not one day.

 

4 pacers is a solid idea when spinners are IRRELEVANT for the whole 5 days to the point where they can't even keep things tight. In fact, we won in Aus pitches cos spinners kept it tight.

 

You guys drank the 4 pacer koolaid and now India is paying the price.

 

Lost a WTC championship needlessly.

 

(Btw, Kohli would have been 2-1 up against Eng with a 3-2 combo too.)

Edited June 21, 2023 by sensible-indian

[sensible-indian]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:00 PM, Adamant said:

The only thing I want to specify is that choosing UMesh over Ashwin was definitely not a cardinal sin, infact Umesh had a better record in 2 matches he played than Ashwin, also was one of the reason behind our oval triumph, so I think people are overreacting as if we left out warne for Umesh

It is a cardinal sin when you consider Aussies have 5 lefties (most of whom are bunnies of Ash).

 

This is exactly what I warned about 2 years ago.

 

I did say India will pay the price for this type of thinking and they did.

[sensible-indian]

What I love about Indian management is they there is no rhyme or reason to their selection.

 

A player like Ashwin gets dropped in tests when he is bowling well.

 

And the same player gets picked in World T20 (2022) when he is bowling absolute garbage.

 

The lack of critical thinking and accountability is hilarious to see at this point.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

What I love about Indian management is they there is no rhyme or reason to their selection.

 

A player like Ashwin gets dropped in tests when he is bowling well.

 

And the same player gets picked in World T20 (2022) when he is bowling absolute garbage.

 

The lack of critical thinking and accountability is hilarious to see at this point.

 

Exactly. He was not needed in T20 at all that too in leggies land. They picked collar chewer didn't play him.  You pretty much can nail everything down to Indian top order batting. They just want cushion to top order. THey don't care anything else.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

What I love about Indian management is they there is no rhyme or reason to their selection.
 
A player like Ashwin gets dropped in tests when he is bowling well.
 
And the same player gets picked in World T20 (2022) when he is bowling absolute garbage.
 
The lack of critical thinking and accountability is hilarious to see at this point.

SIF

My favourite poster. Stick around.

Indian selection committee has no brains. Its made up of flop players. What do you expect?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vvvslaxman]

Wow Scotland  has done it in the last ball. Unbelievable. 

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

It is a cardinal sin when you consider Aussies have 5 lefties (most of whom are bunnies of Ash).

 

This is exactly what I warned about 2 years ago.

 

I did say India will pay the price for this type of thinking and they did.

bunnis in home conditions, not where the ball was not turning an inch. 

[rollingstoned]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Exactly. He was not needed in T20 at all that too in leggies land. They picked collar chewer didn't play him.  You pretty much can nail everything down to Indian top order batting. They just want cushion to top order. THey don't care anything else.

Ashwin was picked because of 'match ups' incase some team has lefties and partly because he had a very good tournament in 2015 in Austraia. in fact most of what they did for the 2 t20 wcs was what some jholachap expert on this forum wanted going into them lol. This time they did not play him in the test match because they felt going with the 'all conditions' 3 fast bowlers and 2 spinners formula cost them in the last wtc final which is not a correct assessment of what happened. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by rollingstoned

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

match ups' incase some team has lefties and partly because he had a very goo

Achha yaad dilaya yaar,Mai toh itne time me bhool Gaya th ye legendary terms

"Matchup",all phasebowler,gold,etc

[Lord]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

bunnis in home conditions, not where the ball was not turning an inch. 

He performed v them in Aus too in 2018 & 2020

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

He performed v them in Aus too in 2018 & 2020

Dismissed Khawaja in both innings cheaply  in one of the series. Hard to convince wilfully obtuse fans. Just troll and move on.

[vvvslaxman]

Read somewhere  Paras mambrey was one of the key decision maker in leaving Ashwin out. Lol Dravid, Mambrey, Rathore take us to ancient era.

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Read somewhere  Paras mambrey was one of the key decision maker in leaving Ashwin out. Lol Dravid, Mambrey, Rathore take us to ancient era.

 

There is no way to spin this - Dravid is head coach, Rohit is captain. These 2 own the decision. 

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

There is no way to spin this - Dravid is head coach, Rohit is captain. These 2 own the decision. 

 

He is defending saying everyone is saying in hindsight when there is enough evidence this was called even before the match was started. He is blaming the fast bowlers for being indisciplined lol He is the bloody coach.

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

There is no way to spin this - Dravid is head coach, Rohit is captain. These 2 own the decision. 

 

Coincidentally i found an article published today talk about this. Take down on how Rohit/Dravid dodged/weaved the questions.

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/what-r-ashwin-omission-reveals-about-double-standards-in-bccis-selection-process-8677629/

 

 

Sharma responded with his usual devil-may-care attitude. He opined that after the first session on Day 1, team India was in a great position to go ahead but did not capitalise on the opportunity. He carefully dodged the question about reasons for this and instead asserted that it can happen to any team

 

He also added that at this level, he can’t teach the batters and bowlers how to play — a rebuttal that is understandable, but stinks of empty rhetoric.

 

Although Ashwin’s exclusion was not directly dealt with by Dravid, Paras Mhambrey (India’s bowling coach) pretty much summed up the reasons for his decision citing pitch and weather conditions and India’s positive overseas record with four seamers.

 

Tunnel visioned approach. Hey it worked in 2018 forgetting the same strategy failed In 5th test/ 2 tests in SA and this match is against a side that has vulnerability against off spin and it is at the oval.  And also they forgot two of the main architects of 4 bowlers were missing. Heck even with Bumrah we lost the 5th test.