Rank them as all rounders in Tests

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil was a bowler first. Pandya is a batsman first whether he is good or not in current cricket is a different discussion.

Actually Pandya is a better bowler too, he can bowl 145 kph.
 

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Actually Pandya is a better bowler too, he can bowl 145 kph.
 

Actually Koolie is better than Smith,Root

Bat avg improving with each match<50

Soon <45

[Adamant]

Just now, Suhaan said:

Actually Koolie is better than Smith,Root

Bat avg improving with each match<50

Soon <45

Actually Kohli is better, you are right.

Smith leg spinner max 95 kph
Root off Spinner max 100 kph
Williamson again 90kph
Kohli medium pacer 115 kph

Another victory for Kohli, as the faster a bowler is the better he is

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Actually Kohli is better, you are right.

Smith leg spinner max 95 kph
Root off Spinner max 100 kph
Williamson again 90kph
Kohli medium pacer 115 kph

Another victory for Kohli, as the faster a bowler is the better he is

 

हम को मालूम है जन्नत की हक़ीक़त लेकिन   दिल के ख़ुश रखने को 'ग़ालिब' ये ख़याल अच्छा है

 

 

Kohli should not have left bowling though

Edited June 21, 2023 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He was. He was as good as specialist. In some matches better than them. He was the original bazballer. Probably lost 10 points of average due to that. Very decisive player against both spin and exterme pace.

Overall career average of 22 in ODIs and 31 in tests with high SR make him Indian version of Afridi. Even Afridi was better than main batsmen in some matches. Even Shardul has been better than main batsman in some matches, even Ashwin. Doesn't mean they can play as pure batsmen.

[zen]

22 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Overall career average of 22 in ODIs and 31 in tests with high SR make him Indian version of Afridi. Even Afridi was better than main batsmen in some matches. Even Shardul has been better than main batsman in some matches, even Ashwin. Doesn't mean they can play as pure batsmen.

Yeah, Kapil is Adridiesque or Afridi, Kapilesque 

[zen]

4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Imran's stats cannot be taken seriously because- majority of the matches were played in Pakistan where the umpiring was horrible. B- Ball tampering. 

India had home umpires too (and of course the era had no DRS) and Kapil’s stats are by and large influenced by his performances at home (Unlike the other 3 mainstream ARs of 80s, Kapil’s overseas record is poor as listed in one of my posts).  

In short, fingers can be pointed at Kapil’s home record too.

Edited June 21, 2023 by zen

[putrevus]

Pandya being called an allrounder is itself is stretch, as I said many times he is just bits and pieces player .

 

As we saw in IPL he is was never good enough to bat in top 4 and he was never good enough bowler.

 

His utility was being a caddy to Dhoni to score fast after top order did all the work. Dhoni should have never played after 2015 world cup.

 

To his credit Pandya has improved a little bit after 7 years of international cricket as a batsman but still does not belong in the team if he does not bowl his overs 9 out 10 matches.

 

Here geniuses are comparing him to Kapil dev.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Overall career average of 22 in ODIs and 31 in tests with high SR make him Indian version of Afridi. Even Afridi was better than main batsmen in some matches. Even Shardul has been better than main batsman in some matches, even Ashwin. Doesn't mean they can play as pure batsmen.

 

What an asinine comparison. He was a proper genuine batsman. You are blindly looking at numbers without seeing his actual ability to bat. He was bloody dropped from a test for playing a reckless shot in 1984/85. When later he was brought back he made 53 & 49 playing with caution by his standard. He literally had no weaknesses with bat. Even at old age he destroyed 90 mph Alan Donald.

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Overall career average of 22 in ODIs and 31 in tests with high SR make him Indian version of Afridi. Even Afridi was better than main batsmen in some matches. Even Shardul has been better than main batsman in some matches, even Ashwin. Doesn't mean they can play as pure batsmen.

wow, you are really something.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by putrevus

[putrevus]

During Kapil Dev's era Indian batting averages were in 30s  except Gavaskar. Vengy and Vishy who were in low 40s.

 

Chetan Chahuan who Gavaskar calls his best opening partner averaged 31 same as Kapil, Srikanth another opener who became Indian captain with avg less than 30.

 

Kris Srikanth who was so called fast scorer and flashy stroke maker had avg 29 with SR of 71 in odis. Kapil odi avg comined with his SR  in  those days would make him more valuable.

 

Kapil could walk into both odi and test team of his time purely as batsman too.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

During Kapil Dev's era Indian batting averages were in 30s  except Gavaskar. Vengy and Vishy who were in low 40s.

 

Chetan Chahuan who Gavaskar calls his best opening partner averaged 31 same as Kapil, Srikanth another opener who became Indian captain with avg less than 30.

 

Kris Srikanth who was so called fast scorer and flashy stroke make avg 29 with SR of 71 in odis. Kapil odi avg comined with his SR  in  those days would make him more valuable.

 

Kapil could walk into both odi and test team of his time purely as batsman too.

 

 

Saved us from several embarrassments.  His Port Elizabeth 100 is one for ages. India was reeling at 31/5. Then even in 1992 world cup against Pakistan his partnership with Tendulkar played a crucial role in recovery. Who can hit that 4 sixes in a row to avoid follow on. He didn't do justice to his batting skill. That was the sentiment towards end of his career. Till the end of his career he played the counter attacking role rather than a statpadder which he could easily have done.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Saved us from several embarrassments.  His Port Elizabeth 100 is one for ages. India was reeling at 31/5. Then even in 1992 world cup against Pakistan his partnership with Tendulkar played a crucial role in recovery. Who can hit that 4 sixes in a row to avoid follow on. He didn't do justice to his batting skill. That was the sentiment towards end of his career. Till the end of his career he played the counter attacking role rather than a statpadder which he could easily have done.

This match sums up perfectly Kapil's career.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-england-1982-62277/england-vs-india-1st-test-63314/full-scorecard

 

He gets England's team top order for nothing but he has no support from other end and ends bowling more overs than any other Indian bowler including spinners.

 

He hardly gets to put his feet up as he is called up to bat to save India from getting all out under 100 scores 41 ends up second highest scorer in the innings.

 

He is again called up in second innings to save India from innings defeat which he does by almost scoring fastest 100 ever with Doshi has his partner, he saves India from innings defeat and then gets England 18/3 chasing 66 almost threatening to win the match but luckily for England it is stumps.

 

 

So any idiot who judges Kapil Dev based on looking at just stats has no clue about anything.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

This match sums up perfectly Kapil's career.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-england-1982-62277/england-vs-india-1st-test-63314/full-scorecard

 

He gets England's team top order for nothing but he has no support from other end and ends bowling more overs than any other Indian bowler including spinners.

 

He hardly gets to put his feet up as he is called up to bat to save India from getting all out under 100 scores 41 ends up second highest scorer in the innings.

 

He is again called up in second innings to save India from innings defeat which he does by almost scoring fastest 100 ever with Doshi has his partner, he saves India from innings defeat and then gets England 18/3 chasing 66 almost threatening to win the match but luckily for England it is stumps.

 

 

So any idiot who judges Kapil Dev based on looking at just stats has no clue about anything.

 

For a fast bowling all rounder, he had to stay injury free as he was literally the only one who was good enough. Then he had to bail India out with bat whenever there was a collapse. Nobody took more responsibility than Kapil Dev in Indian cricket history. Not to mention he could literally field anywhere and do a fantastic job. He and Alan border were expert direct hit specialists back in the 80s.  We are casually comparing this pyjama man Pandya with such a legend.  Let them  first reach half of Irfan Pathan's level in Test or for that matter Shardul Thakur level.

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 Let them  first reach half of Irfan Pathan's level in Test or for that matter Shardul Thakur level.

Pandya has virtually retired from tests

 

Pandya if still was playing tests he had a mountain to climb to get compared with Kapil

He didn't help his case by opting out so early,he should have targeted atleast 50 tests to improve his game

His bowling awareness has certainly developed and a much much better bowler than a batsman

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Suhaan said:

Pandya has virtually retired from tests

 

Pandya if still was playing tests he had a mountain to climb to get compared with Kapil

He didn't help his case by opting out so early,he should have targeted atleast 50 tests to improve his game

His bowling awareness has certainly developed and a much much better bowler than a batsman

 

. Test batting may not require fitness. But fast bowlers require certain basic level of fitness to do well in Tests. Pandya doesn't even meet that. I am very very skeptical about his sustainability in ODIs as well. He can literally break down in any match and walk off. It is not like he is reeling out 50s after 50s in ODIs. He provides this "imaginary" balance. That balance works only when he actually contributes in a meaningful and predictable way. Then the fielding aspect. He can hurt himself there as well. Due to paucity of fast bowling all rounders he is still being considered for Tests. Pandya has excluded himself.  

[Rightarmfast]

7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Dont think kapil was good enough purely as a batsman.

Hmm.. My humble opinion is that you are wrong by a mile. Kapil would be a handy bat even in the current team.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

For a fast bowling all rounder, he had to stay injury free as he was literally the only one who was good enough. Then he had to bail India out with bat whenever there was a collapse. Nobody took more responsibility than Kapil Dev in Indian cricket history. Not to mention he could literally field anywhere and do a fantastic job. He and Alan border were expert direct hit specialists back in the 80s.  We are casually comparing this pyjama man Pandya with such a legend.  Let them  first reach half of Irfan Pathan's level in Test or for that matter Shardul Thakur level.

A year later in 1983 he wins world cup against greatest odi team to have never won world cup. That 1983 WI team would beat any other team in history including Australian dynasty teams.

 

He is the sole reason BCCI is what it is today.He brought credibility to not just BCCI but whole nation.

 

 

[zen]

46 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Pandya has virtually retired from tests

He is expected to be back if fitness allows. His current focus (or pet project) is on mastering captaincy so has lifted his foot off the pedal on other aspects. He is in the sophomore year so those are natural hurdles - PS Sophomore slump
 

Now that he has got used to captaincy, he will bounce back in both batting and bowling!

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by zen

[zen]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Dont think kapil was good enough purely as a batsman.

In terms of talent, he was good (like Afridi is too), but output was much less (Naam bade aur darshan chote). 
 

If a player who is considered as a AR plays 131 tests (without much pressure on his place), he is going to have a few good knocks (talking about Afridi, he has too in ODIs like the fastest 100, etc.)
 

The issue with Kapil is that his good performances are spread b/w tons of poor to average performances. 

In today’s environment, he would not have played 100 tests.