Rank them as all rounders in Tests

[zen]

Talking about examples of tiers in test cricket: 

 

Gavaskar (top tier), Vensarkar (second tier) 

Lara (top tier), Ganguly (second tier)

S Smith (top tier), Pujara (second tier) 

Imran (top tier), Kapil (second tier) 

and so on 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket-imran-admits-cheating-glenn-moore-on-the-book-throwing-light-on-a-touchy-subject-1434755.html

 

THE immediate legacy of Imran Khan's admission that he tampered with the ball to the extent of using a bottle top will be a further blighting of his Pakistan Test successors, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis. 

 

Indeed, the most startling admission so far released concerns a county match between Sussex and Hampshire in 1991. 'The ball was not deviating at all,' Imran is quoted as saying. 'So I got the 12th man to bring on a bottle top and it started to move around a lot. I occasionally scratched the side (of the ball) and lifted the seam.'

 

Imran, who took 362 Test wickets, also admits to lifting the seam, a practice he alleges - and with some justification - is rife in England. So, too, is treating the ball with an illegal substance such as lanolin or Vaseline to get extra swing. What, he argues, is the difference?

 

 

[putrevus]

16 hours ago, Majestic said:

My rating on 10 would be :

 

Sobers - 10/10

Imran - 9.75/10

Kallis - 9.5/10

 

Botham - 9/10

Miller - 9/10

Kapil - 8.5/10( 0.5 deducted due to batting, not bowling- he should have hit 15 100s)

 

Cairns - 8/10

Greig - 8/10

Jadeja - 8/10

Stokes - 8/10

 

Shakib - 7.5/10( barely played 10 out of 65 matches in Aus, SA, Eng, Ind, NZ and Pak/UAE)

Flintoff - 7.5/10

Since when Imran was upper echelon allrounder. Botham was far better allrounder than Imran ever was, Sobers, I would not call him allrounder.

 

Both Sobers and Kallis were great batsmen who could bowl, they did their job very well with ball but they were holding bowlers not strike bowlers for their teams. .

 

Botham is and was the first true allrounder.For first 55 tests what Botham did will never be replicated, it is another thing he became fat and lazy as he grew older.

 

He scored 11 100s @38.00 Avg with 3000 plus runs and took 250 plus wickets @23.68. Imran at same number of tests scored 2 hundreds and Kapil 3 100s. He was an excellent slip fielder. There was nothing Botham could not do on the cricket field.

 

Keith Miller might have been better bowler but Botham was a better batsman.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by putrevus

[putrevus]

58 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket-imran-admits-cheating-glenn-moore-on-the-book-throwing-light-on-a-touchy-subject-1434755.html

 

THE immediate legacy of Imran Khan's admission that he tampered with the ball to the extent of using a bottle top will be a further blighting of his Pakistan Test successors, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis. 

 

Indeed, the most startling admission so far released concerns a county match between Sussex and Hampshire in 1991. 'The ball was not deviating at all,' Imran is quoted as saying. 'So I got the 12th man to bring on a bottle top and it started to move around a lot. I occasionally scratched the side (of the ball) and lifted the seam.'

 

Imran, who took 362 Test wickets, also admits to lifting the seam, a practice he alleges - and with some justification - is rife in England. So, too, is treating the ball with an illegal substance such as lanolin or Vaseline to get extra swing. What, he argues, is the difference?

 

 

Pakistanis had that advantage of reverse swing which nobody in the world had for over a decade. Imran or any Pakistani bowler during that time had two things going , they could tamper with ball as they pleased and home cooked umpiring more so for Imran Khan.

 

Imran without reverse swing would have never been  sub 24 bowler. He would have been a very good fast bowler but not ATG along with Waqar.Akram might have been ATG as he was just a magician.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pakistanis had that advantage of reverse swing which nobody in the world had for over a decade. Imran or any Pakistani bowler during that time had two things going , they could tamper with ball as they pleased and home cooked umpiring more so for Imran Khan.

 

Imran without reverse swing would have never been  sub 24 bowler. He would have been a very good fast bowler but not ATG along with Waqar.Akram might have been ATG as he was just a magician.

 

 

 

Prabakar was the first one who started reversing. He did some tampering too

[putrevus]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

Prabakar was the first one who started reversing. He did some tampering too

But he was not good enough to exploit it.He now talks as if he was some great fast bowler.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

But he was not good enough to exploit it.He now talks as if he was some great fast bowler.

 

He literally bit the ball lol Yea.. His did the same thing that Imran used to do, going wide off the crease and targeting the stumps. Jayasuriya shut him up.

[zen]

Imran ball tempering does not make lesser bowlers better. You need skills to take advantage of reverse swing. 

 

I have seen Prabhakar temper with the ball and Kapil used to bowl with the ball too 

 

I view Kapil as a politician type of person who would shut out other fast bowlers, so I won't be surprised if he shot from behind the backs of Prabhakar, who actually accused Kapil of match-fixing but the nation was probably too naive and also more invested in Kapil to brush it aside. 

[vvvslaxman]

Padosi alert lol

[eulbninem]

On 6/21/2023 at 3:15 PM, Zero_Unit said:

Do you blame the guy? BD is a one man team. Without Shakib, they are a fish out of water. 

It would be really interesting to see how Jadeja would have turned out had he played for BD because he would get more opportunities to bat up the order. But regardless, Shakib is a great allrounder - I rate him better than Jadeja. 

I agree, if Shakib played for Ind, Aus or Eng, he'd be rated a lot higher.

[eulbninem]

Who is a genuine allrounder? Do Kallis, Hadlee and Jadeja fit the bill?

[vvvslaxman]

So Finally

 

1) Kapil Dev 

2) Ian Botham

3) Shakib Al Hasan

4) Ben Stokes

5) Ravindra Jadeja

6) Chris Cairns

7) Shaun Pollock

....

 

 

1010) Hardik Pandya

[raki05]

17 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

So Finally

 

1) Kapil Dev 

2) Ian Botham

3) Shakib Al Hasan

4) Ben Stokes

5) Ravindra Jadeja

6) Chris Cairns

7) Shaun Pollock

....

 

 

1010) Hardik Pandya

1009 would be budhara. Even Budhara would be better alrounder than Harpic Bhandya.

[putrevus]

Pandya is nobody in terms of test cricket, he was extremely lucky to play that much test cricket without any real talent.

 

 

He is neither a bowler nor a batsman.

 

India ruined its chances in overseas series trying to fit this bits and pieces player.

 

unless he bowls his 4 overs he is useless in t20s also . 

Edited July 1, 2023 by putrevus

[R!TTER]

On 6/24/2023 at 6:58 PM, raki05 said:

1009 would be budhara. Even Budhara would be better alrounder than Harpic Bhandya.

Butt butt butt what about Budweiser Sobers lite 

[Lord]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:12 PM, eulbninem said:

I agree, if Shakib played for Ind, Aus or Eng, he'd be rated a lot higher.

no he'd be dropped more often

[Majestic]

8 hours ago, Lord said:

no he'd be dropped more often

He has barely played like 10-12 tests vs Aus, Ind, Eng, NZ, SA, Pak away from home or in neutral venue. 

 

His bowling average of 31 is probably justifiable but if he played more games in tough venues, his batting average would have been 35-36.

 

All in all, he is slightly better bowler than Stokes and slightly inferior bat to Stokes. Jadeja is the better bowler of the three comfortably and weakest bat of the three as well but can catch up in next couple of years.

[Majestic]

On 6/24/2023 at 1:05 AM, vvvslaxman said:

So Finally

 

1) Kapil Dev 

2) Ian Botham

3) Shakib Al Hasan

4) Ben Stokes

5) Ravindra Jadeja

6) Chris Cairns

7) Shaun Pollock

....

 

 

1010) Hardik Pandya

As a cricketer, Pollock has to be on top.

[Lord]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

He has barely played like 10-12 tests vs Aus, Ind, Eng, NZ, SA, Pak away from home or in neutral venue. 

 

His bowling average of 31 is probably justifiable but if he played more games in tough venues, his batting average would have been 35-36.

 

All in all, he is slightly better bowler than Stokes and slightly inferior bat to Stokes. Jadeja is the better bowler of the three comfortably and weakest bat of the three as well but can catch up in next couple of years.

 

Average drops steeply as you play more and more in SENA. He hasnt even played one game in Aus

 

I think he'd average around 32-33 if he played in SENA as much as Jaddu. His batting in NZ was mainly on roads.

 

Bowls on flatter tracks as compared to Jaddu but then Jaddu averages almost same with bat at home.

 

They are equal with Stokes behind due to lack of bowling and not as good performance in spin conditions.

 

 

[Majestic]

For me, Stokes> Jadeja > Shakib

 

Stokes as a batsman is in a different class altogether to either of two even though he needs big match motivation to deliver.