MechEng Posted July 29, 2023 Author Posted July 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Lord said: McGrath made them look average. If you think current guys would have dominated McGrath, you smoking some good stuff McCullum took Stokes bat from his Lord's 100, burnt it to ashes, put that in the urn and sent it to me. I removed the powder from that urn, rolled a joint and smoking it now. Bazball ka nasha hain... Lord 1
Lord Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, MechEng said: If Tendulkar never faced Anderson and I had told here that he could have been Anderson's bunny due to inswing susceptibility, most of you would have been hysterical. I know it's impossible to imagine McGrath getting carted around, but just look at that reverse scoop from Root, not sure what McGrath would have bowled to that style of batting. There is a difference between struggling v one player vs a whole team. If you said McGrath would have struggled v Root, that would make more sense and believable, but you included everyone including Moeen bhai Vijy and cricspirit 2
putrevus Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 57 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: There is no comparison between SRT and VVS on playing McGrath in Test cricket imo. SRT only scored like 88 runs against McGrath and got dismissed 6 times in his career. VVS got wrecked in his first 3 innings and got dismissed twice for nothing by McGrath. But starting with the 167 knock, he went on to score 135 runs and got dismissed only thrice by McGrath. SRT was terrible against McGrath throughout his career. IMO dismissed by a particular bowler is most idiotic stat. VVS did not get out to Mcgrath in 2004 series, does it mean he dominated Mcgrath?? Vijy 1
R!TTER Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 McGrath would probably avg higher in this era, but have a lower S/R & maybe less impact overall? People tend to forget how biased Oz umpiring was back in the day, not to mention neutral umpires also favored Oz a lot. You forgot SRT's dismissals in 2004, 99 down under or even Sehwag second innings at Bangalore?
Vijy Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 1 hour ago, R!TTER said: McGrath would probably avg higher in this era, but have a lower S/R & maybe less impact overall? People tend to forget how biased Oz umpiring was back in the day, not to mention neutral umpires also favored Oz a lot. You forgot SRT's dismissals in 2004, 99 down under or even Sehwag second innings at Bangalore? there's the infamous "shoulder before wicket" given out of SRT
Vijy Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Lord said: got me at Moeen Ali I think the whole thread was a subtle joke Norman and Lord 2
Nikhil_cric Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 1 minute ago, putrevus said: IMO dismissed by a particular bowler is most idiotic stat. VVS did not get out to Mcgrath in 2004 series, does it mean he dominated Mcgrath?? What are you even suggesting? On the one hand, you are saying that VVS hit the other bowlers in an attack and not McGrath. And now you are saying that the H2H average against a particular bowler is an idiotic stat. Chalo, this is going to be a long exercise but let's see what we can learn. Let's compare the 3 big names who played against Australia with McGrath in the team series by series. 1996 OZ tour of India SRT scored 0 runs against McGrath and was bowled by him for a duck VVS did not play Dravid scored at least 14 runs off McGrath as per a highlights package which which showed 26 out of 40 runs he scored (not dismissed by McGrath) 1999/2000 1st Test http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1999-2000/IND_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/IND_AUS_T1_10-14DEC1999_BBB-COMMS.html 1st innings VVS scored 41 runs but 0 off McGrath and dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 35 runs but 4 runs off McGrath and was dismissed by Warne SRT scored 61 runs but 12 runs off McGrath and was dismissed by Warne 2nd innings VVS dismissed for 0 by Fleming Dravid 6 but 4 off McGrath and was dismissed by Warne SRT dismissed for a duck by Mcgrath 1999/00 2nd Test http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1999-2000/IND_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/IND_AUS_T2_26-30DEC1999_BBB-COMMS.html 1st innings VVS scored 5 and 4 off McGrath and was dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 9 and 0 off McGrath and dismissed by Lee SRT scored 116 and 10 runs off McGrath(no boundary) dismissed by Fleming 2nd innings VVS scored 1 run and 0 off McGrath and was dismissed by Fleming Dravid scored 14 runs and 3 runs off McGrath dismissed by Lee SRT scored 52 runs and 10 runs off McGrath 1999/00 3rd Test 1st innings VVS scored 7 runs and 2 runs off McGrath dismissed by Lee Dravid scored 29 runs and 4 runs off McGrath and was dismissed by McGrath SRT scored 45 runs and 21 runs off McGrath(4 boundaries) and was dismissed by McGrath 2nd innings VVS scored 167 and 29 runs off McGrath(3 boundaries) and was dismissed by Lee Dravid scored a 0 and was dismissed by McGrath SRT scored a 4 and these 4 runs were off McGrath, dismissed by Fleming 2000/01 Australia tour of India 1st Test 1st innings VVS scored 20 and 10 runs off McGrath(2 boundaries) and dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 9 and 1 off McGrath dismissed by Fleming SRT scored 76 and 4 runs off McGrath and dismissed by McGrath 2nd innings VVS scored 12 and 0 off McGrath dismissed by Waugh Dravid scored 39 and 5 off McGrath (1 boundary) dismissed by Warne SRT scored 65 and 8 off McGrath(2 boundaries) dismissed by Waugh 2nd Test 1st innings VVS scored 59 and 5 runs off McGrath( 1 boundary) and dismissed by Warne Dravid scored 25 and 3 runs off McGrath and dismissed by Warne SRT scored 10 and 2 runs off McGrath and dismissed by McGrath 2nd innings VVS scored 281 and 53 runs off McGrath(8 boundaries) dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 180 and 26 runs off McGrath (3 boundaries) run out SRT scored 10 and 0 off Mcgrath dismissed by Gillespie 3rd Test 1st innings VVS scored 65 and 5 runs off McGrath(1 boundary) dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 81 and 10 runs off McGrath(1 boundary) dismissed by Gillespie SRT scored 126 and 12 runs off McGrath(2 boundaries) dismissed by Gillespie 2nd innings VVS scored 66 and scored 1-7 runs off McGrath( no accurate data) Dravid scored 4 and 0 runs off McGrath dismissed by Miller SRT scored 17 and 0 runs off McGrath dismissed by Gillespie 2004 series Laxman scored 30 runs against McGrath ( 6 boundaries and one six) never dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 24 runs against McGrath ( 3 boundaries) and was dismissed twice by McGrath SRT scored 5 runs against Mcgrath (no boundary) and was dismissed once by McGrath Sehwag scored 91 runs against McGrath ( 15 boundaries ) and was dismissed 4 times by McGrath Judge for yourself who actually scored off McGrath and who played him out and hit the rest of the attack. Trichromatic 1
nevada Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 10:31 AM, vvvslaxman said: He met his match in Kevin pietersen albeit towards the end of his career. Mcgrath was too canny to be bullied. But McGrath had the last laugh. One time Pietersen jumped out of the crease to smack McGrath's bowling but got smacked in the ribs instead. McGrath was quite pleased and had nice things to say about the incident as.well.
vvvslaxman Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 Mcgrath interview. Lot of interviews about Mcgrath from other cricketers. One frequent appearance in the intereview was Laxman alongwith Kallis, Vaughan. I agree with that one line from Nasser Hussain. "Any little glitch in your technique he will expose you". That is what separated Mcgrath from others. Mcgrath in his own words focused more on strike rates and economy. Another important point he talks about is strengthening your muscles when you are younger. Not after you get older. Ishant made his debut at 19. Wish we do the same now instead of introducing 28 year olds, 32 year olds. Vijy 1
vvvslaxman Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 Our fast bowlers should definitely watch this interview from Pigeon. Pigeon to Athers. Also Punter explains how he handled Pigeon in domestic.
vvvslaxman Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 Mcgrath to Punter. He is hugely thankful to Shane warne for lot of his wickets.
Vijy Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: Mcgrath to Punter. He is hugely thankful to Shane warne for lot of his wickets. warne and mcG fed off each other
putrevus Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said: What are you even suggesting? On the one hand, you are saying that VVS hit the other bowlers in an attack and not McGrath. And now you are saying that the H2H average against a particular bowler is an idiotic stat. Chalo, this is going to be a long exercise but let's see what we can learn. Let's compare the 3 big names who played against Australia with McGrath in the team series by series. 1996 OZ tour of India SRT scored 0 runs against McGrath and was bowled by him for a duck VVS did not play Dravid scored at least 14 runs off McGrath as per a highlights package which which showed 26 out of 40 runs he scored (not dismissed by McGrath) 1999/2000 1st Test http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1999-2000/IND_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/IND_AUS_T1_10-14DEC1999_BBB-COMMS.html 1st innings VVS scored 41 runs but 0 off McGrath and dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 35 runs but 4 runs off McGrath and was dismissed by Warne SRT scored 61 runs but 12 runs off McGrath and was dismissed by Warne 2nd innings VVS dismissed for 0 by Fleming Dravid 6 but 4 off McGrath and was dismissed by Warne SRT dismissed for a duck by Mcgrath 1999/00 2nd Test http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1999-2000/IND_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/IND_AUS_T2_26-30DEC1999_BBB-COMMS.html 1st innings VVS scored 5 and 4 off McGrath and was dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 9 and 0 off McGrath and dismissed by Lee SRT scored 116 and 10 runs off McGrath(no boundary) dismissed by Fleming 2nd innings VVS scored 1 run and 0 off McGrath and was dismissed by Fleming Dravid scored 14 runs and 3 runs off McGrath dismissed by Lee SRT scored 52 runs and 10 runs off McGrath 1999/00 3rd Test 1st innings VVS scored 7 runs and 2 runs off McGrath dismissed by Lee Dravid scored 29 runs and 4 runs off McGrath and was dismissed by McGrath SRT scored 45 runs and 21 runs off McGrath(4 boundaries) and was dismissed by McGrath 2nd innings VVS scored 167 and 29 runs off McGrath(3 boundaries) and was dismissed by Lee Dravid scored a 0 and was dismissed by McGrath SRT scored a 4 and these 4 runs were off McGrath, dismissed by Fleming 2000/01 Australia tour of India 1st Test 1st innings VVS scored 20 and 10 runs off McGrath(2 boundaries) and dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 9 and 1 off McGrath dismissed by Fleming SRT scored 76 and 4 runs off McGrath and dismissed by McGrath 2nd innings VVS scored 12 and 0 off McGrath dismissed by Waugh Dravid scored 39 and 5 off McGrath (1 boundary) dismissed by Warne SRT scored 65 and 8 off McGrath(2 boundaries) dismissed by Waugh 2nd Test 1st innings VVS scored 59 and 5 runs off McGrath( 1 boundary) and dismissed by Warne Dravid scored 25 and 3 runs off McGrath and dismissed by Warne SRT scored 10 and 2 runs off McGrath and dismissed by McGrath 2nd innings VVS scored 281 and 53 runs off McGrath(8 boundaries) dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 180 and 26 runs off McGrath (3 boundaries) run out SRT scored 10 and 0 off Mcgrath dismissed by Gillespie 3rd Test 1st innings VVS scored 65 and 5 runs off McGrath(1 boundary) dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 81 and 10 runs off McGrath(1 boundary) dismissed by Gillespie SRT scored 126 and 12 runs off McGrath(2 boundaries) dismissed by Gillespie 2nd innings VVS scored 66 and scored 1-7 runs off McGrath( no accurate data) Dravid scored 4 and 0 runs off McGrath dismissed by Miller SRT scored 17 and 0 runs off McGrath dismissed by Gillespie 2004 series Laxman scored 30 runs against McGrath ( 6 boundaries and one six) never dismissed by McGrath Dravid scored 24 runs against McGrath ( 3 boundaries) and was dismissed twice by McGrath SRT scored 5 runs against Mcgrath (no boundary) and was dismissed once by McGrath Sehwag scored 91 runs against McGrath ( 15 boundaries ) and was dismissed 4 times by McGrath Judge for yourself who actually scored off McGrath and who played him out and hit the rest of the attack. You are forgetting a major factor Laxman other than 3 innings in 2001 batted at number 6 or number 5. Mcgrath by that time Laxman started his innings would have already bowled one or two spells. These things you posted do not mean a lick. As I said 2004 series ,Laxman hardly did anything before 4th test. Sachin was injured but came to play as India was losing that series. Laxman with all his technical weaknesses would never be able to do well against Mcgrath in a long series. Sachin if fit would do better than Laxman most of the time. Mcgrath is so great that no batsmen ever completely dominated him. Edited July 30, 2023 by putrevus
Nikhil_cric Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 13 hours ago, putrevus said: You are forgetting a major factor Laxman other than 3 innings in 2001 batted at number 6 or number 5. Mcgrath by that time Laxman started his innings would have already bowled one or two spells. These things you posted do not mean a lick. As I said 2004 series ,Laxman hardly did anything before 4th test. Sachin was injured but came to play as India was losing that series. Laxman with all his technical weaknesses would never be able to do well against Mcgrath in a long series. Sachin if fit would do better than Laxman most of the time. Mcgrath is so great that no batsmen ever completely dominated him. So only a a batsman who dominated McGrath in his very first spell should be rated ? OK
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said: So only a a batsman who dominated McGrath in his very first spell should be rated ? OK Surviving is also a good skill. Irfan pathan as a 19 year old put up a brave defense against Mcgrath/Gillespie. Not enough though.
Nikhil_cric Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: Surviving is also a good skill. Irfan pathan as a 19 year old put up a brave defense against Mcgrath/Gillespie. Not enough though. It is. I have no problem with a batsman surviving the best bowlers provided they attack and score off the lesser bowlers. But this thread is about who dominated McGrath specifically. Lara dominated him in the 1999 series and quite consistently over 1st 3 Tests. But other than that, he was mostly unable to do much. As I've already mentioned, there was only one batter who consistently scored and scored rapidly off him without getting out often and that was Nathan Astle. If there were others, it would have been in the 1995-98 period but there is very little video or ball-by-ball data evidence for the same.
vvvslaxman Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: It is. I have no problem with a batsman surviving the best bowlers provided they attack and score off the lesser bowlers. But this thread is about who dominated McGrath specifically. Lara dominated him in the 1999 series and quite consistently over 1st 3 Tests. But other than that, he was mostly unable to do much. As I've already mentioned, there was only one batter who consistently scored and scored rapidly off him without getting out often and that was Nathan Astle. If there were others, it would have been in the 1995-98 period but there is very little video or ball-by-ball data evidence for the same. There is one match where Australia made an ultra aggressive delcaration leaving just 284 for NZ t o win. As the game progressed Australia panicked. Even guys like mCgrath started bowling wides. They finished with 274/7 https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-tour-of-australia-2001-02-62085/australia-vs-new-zealand-1st-test-63953/full-scorecard
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