Kohli led Indian team's camaraderie with Pakistanis affecting the team's focus and performance?

[vvvslaxman]

More than Pakistan his cozy unaggressive approach towards NZ has cost us a few games. He gave certificate to Kane Williamson he is the right choice for NZ as captain after we white washed them in T20 only to see India getting whitewashed in Tests.

[Bigg Brother]

Aisa kuchh nahi hai. We lose because we are not good enough. And even for all his camaraderie, only Kohli has performed against Pakistan, after him may God save us against them.

[Austin 3:!6]

Let me tell you what is affecting Indian team's performance.

 

Our top order hasn't batted in ODIs since March. We went to West Indies and our coach sahab decided to rest Kohli & Rohit in all matches. 

 

Then before Asia cup they did some stimulation training in a remote place in Karnataka where no media was allowed. Whatever they have done there it clearly didn;t work as it didn't stop Shaheen Shah Afridi to uproot stumps of both our stalwarts.

 

Then we are playing all our Asia cup games in Srilanka where it is raining continuously. Players have got only half a day to practice till now on their entire stay in Srilanka. 

 

On the other hand Pak players coming after playing an ODI series against Afg in Srilanka, LPL before that and now also getting full matches in Asia cup as most of their games so far are in Pakistan.

 

So its no brainer which team is more prepared and the result is evident on the ground.

 

But yes, lets blame Kohli's friendly gesture with Pak players as reason for our poor performance.

 

Unfortunately we are not blaming the main culprit in all these. It is only and only BCCIs fault and if I can be more specific it is fault of Jay Shah.

 

That clown has made our entire cricket team a joke. Honestly feel like no longer following this sport anymore due to blatant politics like these.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Austin 3:!6

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

 

 

Unfortunately we are not blaming the main culprit in all these. It is only and only BCCIs fault and if I can be more specific it is fault of Jay Shah.

 

 

 

They brought Naseem Shah. We brought Jay shah lol

[Nikhil_cric]

The focus is affected because it is an aged team and we keep picking the same players across all 3 formats over a very short period of time.

 

From our squad,

 

14 out of 15 players have played all 3 formats at least till 2022. Hardik is the sole exception.

 

It's like the selectors keep going back to the same players for everything - WTC, T20 World Cup, 50 over World Cup.

 

No wonder these guys become mediocre across formats. Jack of all trades, master of none type cricketers.  

 

Australia - 5 players in squad who haven't played all 3 formats in last 2 years

 

South Africa -  5 players who are not all-format

 

England - 7 players who are not all format

 

New Zealand - at least 5 , potentially more, who are not all-format

 

Pakistan - At least 5, potentially more who are not all-format

 

Also, these teams many who have played all 3 formats were also guys who were randomly thrown in to play 1 odd game in a format.

 

It is only in India where 14 out of these 15 guys are serious contenders in every format.

 

 

 

[sage]

5 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The focus is affected because it is an aged team and we keep picking the same players across all 3 formats over a very short period of time.

 

From our squad,

 

14 out of 15 players have played all 3 formats at least till 2022. Hardik is the sole exception.

 

It's like the selectors keep going back to the same players for everything - WTC, T20 World Cup, 50 over World Cup.

 

No wonder these guys become mediocre across formats. Jack of all trades, master of none type cricketers.  

 

Australia - 5 players in squad who haven't played all 3 formats in last 2 years

 

South Africa -  5 players who are not all-format

 

England - 7 players who are not all format

 

New Zealand - at least 5 , potentially more, who are not all-format

 

Pakistan - At least 5, potentially more who are not all-format

 

Also, these teams many who have played all 3 formats were also guys who were randomly thrown in to play 1 odd game in a format.

 

It is only in India where 14 out of these 15 guys are serious contenders in every format.

 

 

 

Make a new thread for this.... Good insight 

[Suhaan]

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The focus is affected because it is an aged team and we keep picking the same players across all 3 formats over a very short period of time.

 

From our squad,

 

14 out of 15 players have played all 3 formats at least till 2022. Hardik is the sole exception.

 

It's like the selectors keep going back to the same players for everything - WTC, T20 World Cup, 50 over World Cup.

 

No wonder these guys become mediocre across formats. Jack of all trades, master of none type cricketers.  

 

Australia - 5 players in squad who haven't played all 3 formats in last 2 years

 

South Africa -  5 players who are not all-format

 

England - 7 players who are not all format

 

New Zealand - at least 5 , potentially more, who are not all-format

 

Pakistan - At least 5, potentially more who are not all-format

 

Also, these teams many who have played all 3 formats were also guys who were randomly thrown in to play 1 odd game in a format.

 

It is only in India where 14 out of these 15 guys are serious contenders in every format.

 

 

 

Because every ex cricketer in India believes every player should be all format player

 

[putrevus]

14 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The focus is affected because it is an aged team and we keep picking the same players across all 3 formats over a very short period of time.

 

From our squad,

 

14 out of 15 players have played all 3 formats at least till 2022. Hardik is the sole exception.

 

It's like the selectors keep going back to the same players for everything - WTC, T20 World Cup, 50 over World Cup.

 

No wonder these guys become mediocre across formats. Jack of all trades, master of none type cricketers.  

 

Australia - 5 players in squad who haven't played all 3 formats in last 2 years

 

South Africa -  5 players who are not all-format

 

England - 7 players who are not all format

 

New Zealand - at least 5 , potentially more, who are not all-format

 

Pakistan - At least 5, potentially more who are not all-format

 

Also, these teams many who have played all 3 formats were also guys who were randomly thrown in to play 1 odd game in a format.

 

It is only in India where 14 out of these 15 guys are serious contenders in every format.

 

 

 

Should that not be viewed as a positive sign. Indian players wanting to player all three formats. They are atleast top players in all three formats in their own country.

 

India is the only team which has been competitive in all formats in last decade. They have won most matches in all formats too.

 

Selected Players are good enough to get these things done, their failings are in knock out matches. That is  due to various factors which is topic for another discussion.

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by putrevus

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Should that not be viewed as a positive sign. Indian players wanting to player all three formats. They are atleast top player in all three formats in their own country.

 

India is the only team which has been competitive in all formats in last decade. They have won most matches in all formats too.

 

Selected Players are good enough to get these things done, their failings are in knock out matches. That is  due to various factors which is topic for another discussion.

 

 

 

Australia won the WTC and the World T20 2 years ago and a 50 over World Cup in the last decade. They are clearly the best across formats

 

How are India the best across formats in the last decade? 

 

How do you know they want to play all 3?  

 

Give them the option to play T20 leagues elsewhere and if they don't choose to go that route , then you may have a point.

 

IPL teams are forced to pick a large number of Indian players.

 

In foreign leagues, Indian players will have to compete for 4 slots in every team.

 

Let BCCI give NOC's for the Hundred, SA 20, BBL for at least 1 season  and then we will see whether  T20 leagues actually rate our players or not. 

 

Until then, it's really stupid to assume that the current crop can win tournaments in different conditions .

 

 

[putrevus]

55 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Australia won the WTC and the World T20 2 years ago and a 50 over World Cup in the last decade. They are clearly the best across formats

 

How are India the best across formats in the last decade? 

 

How do you know they want to play all 3?  

 

Give them the option to play T20 leagues elsewhere and if they don't choose to go that route , then you may have a point.

 

IPL teams are forced to pick a large number of Indian players.

 

In foreign leagues, Indian players will have to compete for 4 slots in every team.

 

Let BCCI give NOC's for the Hundred, SA 20, BBL for at least 1 season  and then we will see whether  T20 leagues actually rate our players or not. 

 

Until then, it's really stupid to assume that the current crop can win tournaments in different conditions .

 

 

Australia did not even qualify for one WTC finals. India is only team to have done that.

 

I never said they are the best team. I said they have won most matches.

 

2015 and 2019 world cups India won most matches during league phase, so when a team can win matches during league phases but failing in knockout matches . The problem is not talent , it is more a mental block of getting over the line in knock out matches.

 

Pandya does not want to play test cricket, is BCCI forcing him to play test cricket.

 

Guy like Rohit was not even part of test  team in 2018. Now he is captain in all formats. Rohit is not playing test cricket just to earn more money, he is playing test cricket because he values test cricket and wants to do well in test cricket.

 

Everyone needs to appreciate that fact top Indian players value all three formats.

 

How do I know they want to play all formats?? what kind of question is that? If Pujara is selected tomorrow to play odi world cup will he refuse?

 

Nobody is assuming current crop will win tournaments, what most of us know these  selected players are among the best India has at this point of time.

 

BCCI cannot produce Holdings and Marshalls just because fans want them, they can provide the best possible facilities for players to thrive.

 

BCCI's does not need to give NOC, it will devalue IPL.They are allowing them to play county cricket.

Edited September 7, 2023 by putrevus

[rollingstoned]

35 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Australia did not even qualify for one WTC finals. India is only team to have done that.

 

I never said they are the best team. I said they have won most matches.

 

2015 and 2019 world cups India won most matches during league phase, so when a team can win matches during league phases but failing in knockout matches . The problem is not talent , it is more a mental block of getting over the line in knock out matches.

 

Pandya does not want to play test cricket, is BCCI forcing him to play test cricket.

 

Guy like Rohit was not even part of test  team in 2018. Now he is captain in all formats. Rohit is not playing test cricket just to earn more money, he is playing test cricket because he values test cricket and wants to do well in test cricket.

 

Everyone needs to appreciate that fact top Indian players value all three formats.

 

How do I know they want to play all formats?? what kind of question is that? If Pujara is selected tomorrow to play odi world cup will he refuse?

 

Nobody is assuming current crop will win tournaments, what most of us know these  selected players are among the best India has at this point of time.

 

BCCI cannot produce Holdings and Marshalls just because fans want them, they can provide the best possible facilities for players to thrive.

 

BCCI's does not need to give NOC, it will devalue IPL.They are allowing them to play county cricket.

Tbf until recently ot was okay to have most players in your squad play all formats barring a few exceptions. This is not sustainable now considering that the formats have evolved more, rules have changed in some cases and there is a lot more cricket being played which means you cannot do it without adverse effects. 

[putrevus]

9 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Tbf until recently ot was okay to have most players in your squad play all formats barring a few exceptions. This is not sustainable now considering that the formats have evolved more, rules have changed in some cases and there is a lot more cricket being played which means you cannot do it without adverse effects. 

If other players evolve and take places of these players no is stopping them.

 

A guy like Tilak Verma is an example on how one good IPL showing has put him into Indian team.He should have been in world cup squad too.

 

IMO players wanting to play all formats is a good sign rather than being negative sign.They can always take breaks like Australian bowlers.Starc and co rarely play bilateral series in whiteball cricket.

 

England had to beg a guy like Moeen Ali to to play test cricket. I hope it does not happen to India anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by putrevus

[rollingstoned]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If other players evolve and take places of these players no is stopping them.

 

A guy like Tilak Verma is an example on how one good IPL showing has put him into Indian team.He should have been in world cup squad too.

 

IMO players wanting to play all formats is a good sign rather than being negative sign.They can always take breaks like Australian bowlers.Starc and co rarely play bilateral series in whiteball cricket.

 

England had to beg a guy like Moeen Ali to to play test cricket. I hope it does not happen to India anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

It is a good sign but those players are the exception rather than the norm. Likes of Smith and Root can also play all formats but they don't for a reason, part of which is that their own selectors have realised it is detrimental and so don't select them at all costs. Over here it is a question of brand name and arbitrary selection policies where performances or failures in one format mean that you get picked or dropped in another one eg Rahane, Sky. 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

It is a good sign but those players are the exception rather than the norm. Likes of Smith and Root can also play all formats but they don't for a reason, part of which is that their own selectors have realised it is detrimental and so don't select them at all costs. Over here it is a question of brand name and arbitrary selection policies where performances or failures in one format mean that you get picked or dropped in another one eg Rahane, Sky. 

Too much is made of this brand name nonsense to be honest.

 

When Tilak Verma can force his way into Indian side at age of 19 , what is stopping other players.

 

I am not saying BCCI is perfect and they cannot improve. Rahane and Pujara should have never been selected again after SA tour.

 

What is the not clear in all this is who is responsible for these selections, is it coach  and captain or selectors.

 

Same thing with world cup squad, Axar and Rahul don't add any value to the team but they made it.So who is calling the shots?? 

[rollingstoned]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Too much is made of this brand name nonsense to be honest.

 

When Tilak Verma can force his way into Indian side at age of 19 , what is stopping other players.

 

I am not saying BCCI is perfect and they cannot improve. Rahane and Pujara should have never been selected again after SA tour.

 

What is the not clear in all this is who is responsible for these selections, is it coach  and captain or selectors.

 

Same thing with world cup squad, Axar and Rahul don't add any value to the team but they made it.So who is calling the shots?? 

Presently it does seem like the TM ie captain and coach have a veto over selections even if the selectors do pick the squad. 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Australia did not even qualify for one WTC finals. India is only team to have done that.

 

I never said they are the best team. I said they have won most matches.

 

2015 and 2019 world cups India won most matches during league phase, so when a team can win matches during league phases but failing in knockout matches . The problem is not talent , it is more a mental block of getting over the line in knock out matches.

 

Pandya does not want to play test cricket, is BCCI forcing him to play test cricket.

 

Guy like Rohit was not even part of test  team in 2018. Now he is captain in all formats. Rohit is not playing test cricket just to earn more money, he is playing test cricket because he values test cricket and wants to do well in test cricket.

 

Everyone needs to appreciate that fact top Indian players value all three formats.

 

How do I know they want to play all formats?? what kind of question is that? If Pujara is selected tomorrow to play odi world cup will he refuse?

 

Nobody is assuming current crop will win tournaments, what most of us know these  selected players are among the best India has at this point of time.

 

BCCI cannot produce Holdings and Marshalls just because fans want them, they can provide the best possible facilities for players to thrive.

 

BCCI's does not need to give NOC, it will devalue IPL.They are allowing them to play county cricket.

So what if Rohit wants to play Test cricket?  

Does it mean that all the cricketers want to play Test cricket too?

 

Why should a cricketer not be given the chance to ply his trade in other leagues especially if he has no chance to play for India in other formats ?

 

Yuzvendra Chahal is never going to play Tests for India. He's a white ball spinner 

 

You think he would choose to play county if he had a chance to play CPL in conditions where the next World T20 will be played ?

 

That is ridiculous logic. 

 

Most of the fans don't "know" if these are the best or not for the given conditions . They simply assume so. 

 

Clear example was 2021 World T20 selection.

 

Virat Kohli is absolutely terrible on UAE pitches and has been so in every IPL played there

 

Kohli in 2020 IPL

 

1. Average - 42.  Strike rate - 121

 

Kohli in 2021 IPL ( UAE leg)

 

Average - 26 . Strike rate - 117

 

Yeah, these are totally the best players being selected. 

 

 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

Presently it does seem like the TM ie captain and coach have a veto over selections even if the selectors do pick the squad. 

That is big aproblem.Coach and captain can request but they should not have veto power.

 

We all know when Srinivasan did veto selectors over Dhoni.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

So what if Rohit wants to play Test cricket?  

Does it mean that all the cricketers want to play Test cricket too?

 

Why should a cricketer not be given the chance to ply his trade in other leagues especially if he has no chance to play for India in other formats ?

 

Yuzvendra Chahal is never going to play Tests for India. He's a white ball spinner 

 

You think he would choose to play county if he had a chance to play CPL in conditions where the next World T20 will be played ?

 

That is ridiculous logic. 

 

Most of the fans don't "know" if these are the best or not for the given conditions . They simply assume so. 

 

Clear example was 2021 World T20 selection.

 

Virat Kohli is absolutely terrible on UAE pitches and has been so in every IPL played there

 

Kohli in 2020 IPL

 

1. Average - 42.  Strike rate - 121

 

Kohli in 2021 IPL ( UAE leg)

 

Average - 26 . Strike rate - 117

 

Yeah, these are totally the best players being selected. 

 

 

I never said all cricketers want to play test cricket. All I said India is having players who are wanting to play all formats  even though they are well set finanicially like Rohit Sharma is good thing.

 

They want to do hard yards and grind.How is it a bad thing.

 

 Kohli was bad in all formats every where for three years. But I honestly believe a guy like Kohli deserved all the chances as he was carrying this team in all formats for a decade.Nobody fell of the cliff like he did at his age if it is his correct age.If RCB had no problem with Kohli then why does any cricket fan mind RCB paying Kohli.

 

2021 UAE world t20 Kohli did comparable to your so called great allrounder Pandya in two matches which mattered against Pakistan and NZ. After those two losses it did not matter what happened  in other matches.

 

No Indian player should be given a chance to play overseas t20s.If they are so interested let them quit all formats and do whatever they want.IPL is the only league Indian players should be allowed to play.

 

These players have a choice , if they want to play IPL, they must not play any other league.

You first start saying  that players  playing all formats is the reason why India is failing , I don't think it is the case at all.

[IndianRenegade]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:51 AM, putrevus said:

 

 

 

Bumrah is the key he has been a no show in cruicial matches. You don't need middle order to be great to win world cup.

 

 

Anything is possible, but if we had a middle order that looked like 2011 we would have at least made it to the finals in 2019. We no longer have the top order like we did in 2019, yes Hitman & Kohli are still there but their ability is certainly diminished. Even if we did have them perform at their peak like in 2019, they are bound to fail some time in the tournament.

 

Considering we have been faltering in KOs, they are more than likely to repeat the feat again if we reach the KOs. Individually the MO of Iyer, Ishan/KL, Hardik looks better on paper than DK, Jadhav/Pant, & Dhoni, but I fear they haven't played together enough with this combination recently & kind looks unsettled without much game time.

[Nikhil_cric]

36 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I never said all cricketers want to play test cricket. All I said India is having players who are wanting to play all formats  even though they are well set finanicially like Rohit Sharma is good thing.

 

They want to do hard yards and grind.How is it a bad thing.

 

 Kohli was bad in all formats every where for three years. But I honestly believe a guy like Kohli deserved all the chances as he was carrying this team in all formats for a decade.Nobody fell of the cliff like he did at his age if it is his correct age.If RCB had no problem with Kohli then why does any cricket fan mind RCB paying Kohli.

 

2021 UAE world t20 Kohli did comparable to your so called great allrounder Pandya in two matches which mattered against Pakistan and NZ. After those two losses it did not matter what happened  in other matches.

 

No Indian player should be given a chance to play overseas t20s.If they are so interested let them quit all formats and do whatever they want.IPL is the only league Indian players should be allowed to play.

 

These players have a choice , if they want to play IPL, they must not play any other league.

You first start saying  that players  playing all formats is the reason why India is failing , I don't think it is the case at all.

It doesn't matter what you think. Playing multiple formats with very little gap in between is why the same fatigued players can't seem to pull themselves up in tournaments and key matches. 

 

India selects multi-format players in everything. What that means is you can get selected for WTC if you have a good IPL like Rahane did.  Indian players don't "grind" it out in Test cricket because they think it's a great format.  Playing multiple formats simply gives them a chance to get selected at all.

 

That's why you see someone like Chahal go and play red ball cricket when there is no future for him in Tests.

 

L