Should we bring back Ashwin?

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Different conditions. The ball was gripping significantly more. Even Asalanka was able to get some rip off the pitch. Certainly wasn't gripping as much when we bowled.

Asalanka was getting the ball to grip more than even Kuldeep could at times. 

That doesn't happen in even conditions.

 

We can't control for toss, rain, dew etc and we certainly can't choose a XI after the toss. 

 

Just go seamer heavy. If we do get to bowl on such surfaces, even part timers can do the job as DDS and Asalanka showed. There is no need for extra specialist spinner. Even seamers can bowl cutters etc. 

 

However , if we lose the toss and are forced to bowl at night in different conditions, selecting the extra spinner might be a decision to regret as we nearly regretted last night. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't have part time offies to execute this strategy. Iyer should have worked on his bowled and maybe even Rohit.We can get Tilak in now maybe.

 

I agree about selecting extra pacer instead of Thakur.But still atleast 2 spin bowling options are needed specially v SENA teams. They hammer pace if its flat

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

One between Axar and Ashwin. Not both. I also feel Axar automatically becomes a sidekick when Jadeja is also playing alongwith him in LOIs.

 

Axar conclusively proved he is not a spinner y day. He averaged like 50 against Australia on surfaces where every spinner like Kunemann, Todd Murphy having fun.  His batting saved his career there. But he is even behind the likes of Manav suthar, Saurabh, Nishant Sindhu. Heck even Riyan Paragh is a better spinner than him

[Sean Bradley]

Tilak Verma can be very handy I think. 

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said:

Tilak Verma can be very handy I think. 

 

I have not seen him bowl. Does he turn. If you compare his bowling to a part timer in the world who would you comapre with?

[Nikhil_cric]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

We don't have part time offies to execute this strategy. Iyer should have worked on his bowled and maybe even Rohit.We can get Tilak in now maybe.

 

I agree about selecting extra pacer instead of Thakur.But still atleast 2 spin bowling options are needed specially v SENA teams. They hammer pace if its flat

 

England, Australia, India , South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan have flat ODI tracks mostly.  

 

These turgid, gripping wickets are a WI/BD/SL/UAE phenomenon only in recent times.

 

Spinners being hit less is a myth or at least is not worth the trade off. 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=2;filter=advanced;groupby=opposition;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;host=6;host=7;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;spanmin1=01+Apr+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=2;filter=advanced;groupby=opposition;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;host=6;host=7;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;spanmin1=01+Apr+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

They are hit at similar rates by most teams but pace takes wickets much quicker.

 

Which is why although the World Cup is in India, nobody is taking more than 1 specialist spinner and maybe another spin all-rounder. 

 

England, SA, Australia are all stacking seamers or seam all-rounders and looking to get part time spin. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianRenegade]

Lets get Turbanator back!

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

England, Australia, India , South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan have flat ODI tracks mostly.  

 

These turgid, gripping wickets are a WI/BD/SL/UAE phenomenon only in recent times.

 

Spinners being hit less is a myth or at least is not worth the trade off. 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=2;filter=advanced;groupby=opposition;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;host=6;host=7;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;spanmin1=01+Apr+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=2;filter=advanced;groupby=opposition;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;host=6;host=7;orderby=economy_rate;orderbyad=reverse;spanmin1=01+Apr+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

They are hit at similar rates by most teams but pace takes wickets much quicker.

 

Which is why although the World Cup is in India, nobody is taking more than 1 specialist spinner and maybe another spin all-rounder. 

 

England, SA, Australia are all stacking seamers or seam all-rounders and looking to get part time spin. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zampa,Agar, Shamsi,Maharaj,Rashid arent part time spinners. Every team has atleast one specialist spinner and one spin AR. That's what we have too. Usually we play Thakur but because of pitch yesterday Axar came in.

[Sean Bradley]

16 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I have not seen him bowl. Does he turn. If you compare his bowling to a part timer in the world who would you comapre with?

I think he can do what Suresh Raina and Sehwag did in the past for us. That should be more than enough.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Zampa,Agar, Shamsi,Maharaj,Rashid arent part time spinners. Every team has atleast one specialist spinner and one spin AR. That's what we have too. Usually we play Thakur but because of pitch yesterday Axar came in.

 

I am pretty sure England will play both Adil Rashid and Moeen Ali together with LIvingstone as a 3rd spinner. NZ will play between Sodhi,  Santner, Ravindra.  Atleast 2 will play plus Glen Philips bowl off spin. 

[Bigg Brother]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Sundar is there.

He hardly spins the ball and is mainly plays as an AR rather than spinner. Would you play him in tests when Ashwin retires from tests? 

[Nikhil_cric]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Zampa,Agar, Shamsi,Maharaj,Rashid arent part time spinners. Every team has atleast one specialist spinner and one spin AR. That's what we have too. Usually we play Thakur but because of pitch yesterday Axar came in.

I agree with that part. You need a specialist wrist spinner and your next best spin allrounder .

 

But which team has 3 spin/spin all-rounders in the squad?  

 

That's a waste of a precious spot in the XV.  We need another pacer and batsmen to provide part time spin. 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

He hardly spins the ball and is mainly plays as an AR rather than spinner. Would you play him in tests when Ashwin retires from tests? 

 

He has come a long way. We are under-estimating his bowling. He has added some variations. He is not a darter if you imply. He undercuts the ball.

 

 

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

He hardly spins the ball and is mainly plays as an AR rather than spinner. Would you play him in tests when Ashwin retires from tests? 

Still young. He can develop. Though obviously tough to match Ashwin's quality.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I agree with that part. You need a specialist wrist spinner and your next best spin allrounder .

 

But which team has 3 spin/spin all-rounders in the squad?  

 

That's a waste of a precious spot in the XV.  We need another pacer and batsmen to provide part time spin. 

 

They have batsmen who can bowl spin. Unfortunately our batsmen are too prima donnas to develop finger spin.

[IndiaWC8311]

Ashwin is the best choice given everything. Even if you consider Axar to be better (which he is not), Axar pretty much does the same thing Jaddu does so has little utility.

 

Ashwin can be used against LHB very effectively and offers variety to a team that doesn't have an off spinner. Additionally, he is a very good player of spin and can be rotated strategically with Thakur.

[jalebi_bhai]

How many knockout games does he need to be useless in before we permanently discard him from the white ball set up?

[Nikhil_cric]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

They have batsmen who can bowl spin. Unfortunately our batsmen are too prima donnas to develop finger spin.

 

Mate, they are selecting an extra so called spin all-rounder just to cover up 3-4 overs that Hardik may not be able to bowl.

 

Axar's bowling is as bad as a part timer's. And Jadeja has batted worse than Bumrah in the Asia Cup. And Rohit doesn't trust Shardul for 4 overs and still selects him anyway.

 

Between Shreyas and Tilak, we can get 4 overs of offspin. It's not that big an issue. 

 

We get an extra proper batter in the middle order instead of the useless 15 runs that Jadeja gives at a low strike rate and the 10 runs that Shardul will give. 

 

Also, you'll get a pacer who can bowl full 10 overs. 

 

I can't believe this fraud Rohit/Kohli strategy is getting away with this. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, jalebi_bhai said:

How many knockout games does he need to be useless in before we permanently discard him from the white ball set up?

 

Was discarded 6 years back. He played a couple of games in between because BCCI didn't want to spend money sending another player to complete the ODI series. Otherwise he was never in the set up after 2017 exit.  It is Jaddu that has been part of the set up. Only reason his name probably comes up because world cup is in India, India has no off spin option even part time, Axar sucks balls.  Otherwise Sundar should be the first name in that list always. 

[Lord]

15 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

Mate, they are selecting an extra so called spin all-rounder just to cover up 3-4 overs that Hardik may not be able to bowl.

 

Axar's bowling is as bad as a part timer's. And Jadeja has batted worse than Bumrah in the Asia Cup. And Rohit doesn't trust Shardul for 4 overs and still selects him anyway.

 

Between Shreyas and Tilak, we can get 4 overs of offspin. It's not that big an issue. 

 

We get an extra proper batter in the middle order instead of the useless 15 runs that Jadeja gives at a low strike rate and the 10 runs that Shardul will give. 

 

Also, you'll get a pacer who can bowl full 10 overs. 

 

I can't believe this fraud Rohit/Kohli strategy is getting away with this. 

 

 

 

I also want a wicket taking pacer for Thakur. But for spin, Shreyas doesnt bowl and Tilak is not in the side yet for his batting. Tilak and Jaiswal will be great after WC but for now there is no choice. Also Hardik even if he bowls 6 and Shreyas/Tilak bowl 4, thats still only 5 bowling options. There's no room if one of main bowlers get whacked/injured. Ideally you need 6 bowling options with 5th-6th capable of bowling atleast 6-7 overs each.

[bahadur_billa]

It's clear that third spinner will be used on spinning tracks probably Lucknow and Chennai against England and Australia. With the amount of left handers in these teams it would be better to replace Axar with either Sundar or Ashwin.