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'You've left it to fate. There's no planning here': Pathan baffled at India's Ashwin move, Kaif gives blistering verdict

rollingstoned

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Nikhil_cric Grand Master

Nikhil_cric

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5 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

Opening with Gill with Rohit one down.

 

They are trying out Rutu who opens too right?

 

But i guess they prefer Rutu cos he averages 60 in List A.

 

I feel Jaiswal's ceiling is way more.

 

Just too little time to test anyone sadly.

 

They already have a spare batsman/opener in Ishan even if they wanted that. 

 

Rutu is only opening because Rohit is resting this series. He's not a serious contender. 

 

That ton vs Pakistan was Kohli's first real impactful score against a top side in years. 

 

If he hadn't played that, I'd have probably wanted Yashaswi in that top 3 but nos there's no chance until after the World Cup. 

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rollingstoned Grand Master

rollingstoned

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CWC 2023: The curious case of R Ashwin and World Cup comebacks

R Ashwin seems to be in the fray for another World Cup campaign. The No. 1 Test spinner has played only 2 ODIs since the start of 2018. However, India seem to be tempted by the idea of giving the senior off-spinner a spot in the World Cup 2023 squad.

 

R Ashwin

R Ashwin trained at the NCA in Bengaluru under the watchful eyes of VVS Laxman (Courtesy: Ashwin/Twitter)
 
Akshay Ramesh
New Delhi,UPDATED: Sep 20, 2023 19:08 IST
 

In Short

  • R Ashwin was picked for India's ODI seires against Australia from September 22 to 27
  • Ashwin is in the fray for making the ODI World Cup 2023 squad
  • Ashwin played the T20 World Cup in 2021 without having played the format for India since 2018

R Ashwin is undoubtedly one of the greatest match-winners for India in Test cricket. Having picked 489 Test wickets, Ashwin's red-ball heroics over the years have been well-documented.

However, it's strange to note that Ashwin's last involvement in a major International Cricket Council tournament has come in the white-ball format.

 

R Ashwin last played an ICC tournament final at the World Test Championship final in Southampton in 2021. Since then, he has featured in two major ICC tournament white-ball campaigns for India - 2021 and 2022 T20 World Cups.

 

As it turns out, R Ashwin is back in the fray for another World Cup appearance. It seemed as if R Ashwin was not in the scheme of things in one-day cricket as he was dropped from the team after a brief comeback to the ODI squad in January 2022 in an away series in South Africa. He picked up a wicket and gave away 121 runs across 20 overs bowled in South Africa.

 

However, R Ashwin helped raise a few eyebrows when he began training with the white-ball at the National Cricket Academy in Bengaluru under the watchful eyes of NCA chief VVS Laxman even as the Rohit Sharma-led side was playing the Asia Cup matches earlier this year. Before the big final, Ashwin was honing his white-ball skills.

 
 
 

It was a surprise stint at the NCA from Ashwin, who had not played white-ball cricket since the end of the Indian Premier League 2023 season. Speculation was rife about Ashwin's potential comeback after the photos and a video of Ashwin getting turn and bounce during training emerged but a comeback to the ODI side looked improbable.

FROM FINGER TO WRIST TO FINGER SPIN

Ashwin's ODI appearances in South Africa last year were the only 2 matches he played in the 50-over format for India in 7 years. Ashwin went out of the scheme of things in ODIs after the disappointing Champions Trophy 2017 campaign where he picked just 1 wicket from 3 matches and gave away 169 runs in 29 overs.

 

Notably, India had a shift in strategy after the 2017 Champions Trophy as they brought in wrist-spinner Yuzvendra Chahal and Kuldeep Yadav. In fact, the two wrist-spinners have played 37 matches together in the XI since September 2017. However, since the 2019 World Cup, the two wrist-spinners have played only 3 matches together in the XI.

In the lead-up to the 2023 World Cup, Kuldeep Yadav piped Yuzvendra Chahal to emerge as India's lead spinner while Jadeja always kept his place. Interestingly, India went ahead with Axar Patel as the third spinner ahead of Chahal, naming a 3-man spin attack in their provisional ODI World Cup squad and the Asia Cup squad.

 

However, Axar was not able to step up with the ball in the limited opportunities he got in the Asia Cup. India's persistence on having a bowler, who could do his bit with the bat, at No. 8 was established by the captain and the team management ahead of the Asia Cup.

CHANGE OF MIND AT ASIA CUP?

However, an injury to Axar Patel ahead of the Asia Cup final seems to have changed things with regard to the outlook of the team management and the selectors towards the composition of the spin attack. Also, at the Asia Cup, off-spinners from the other side, especially Charith Asalanka, found success against left-handed batters, possibly forcing India to think about bringing in a bit more variety after there were questions about the choice of two similar left-arm spinners in their World Cup-bound squad.

 

Things became clearer when captain Rohit Sharma, addressing the press after their sensational Asia Cup final triumph, said that India are thinking about the 2nd spin-bowling all-rounder's spot and how he was in touch with R Ashwin in the last few months.

 

In fact, India brought in off-spinner Washington Sundar as the replacement for Axar Patel for the Asia Cup final. Sundar has played 16 ODIs in the last two years but injury concerns did not allow to make a serious bid for the World Cup berth. Even when Rohit spoke about getting Sundar as Axar's replacement, he suggested that it was a call based on his match readiness as he was training with the Asian Games-bound squad in Bengaluru before the Asia Cup final.

 

And, as expected, Ashwin was named in the ODI squad for the upcoming 3-match series against Australia which will be India's final tune-up before the World Cup 2023 campaign.

While there is no doubting Ashwin's class, be it red-ball cricket or white-ball cricket, India's decision to rope in the senior spinner in the eleventh-hour seems to point fingers at lack of planning. Is it the assurance that the team management got from the middle-order batters, especially a fit-again KL Rahul, at the Asia Cup that has forced the team to look toward a specialist spinner in the 15?

 

"With guys like Ashwin, game-time and time on the ground is not so much of a concern. This is why we thought if he is an option for us, we need to get him in. With the kind of experience he has, for guys like him, it's all in the head more than the body. I thought getting him in could give us a chance to understand where he is at, how his body is and stuff like that," Rohit said explaining India's call to pick Ashwin for the ODIs against Australia.

 

Well, this is not the first time Ashwin has been brought back from nowhere for a World Cup campaign. The Tamil Nadu off-spinner was drafted into the T20 World Cup 2021 squad straightaway despite him not having played the shortest format at the highest level since 2017.

 

"You can't get a better spinner than Ashwin in the entire world. But in a tournament as big as the World Cup, where there is immense pressure, you can't expect a senior player to walk in and play for the team in a format which he hasn't played for a long time and prove his worth. So you are leaving it entirely to fate. There is no planning here," former India fast bowler Irfan Pathan told Star Sports, questioning the team's call.

 

Ashwin has proved his white-ball skills in the IPL, but is it not unfair to expect the veteran to return to the ODI format and perform straightaway against a world-class side like Australia? Now that he has been brought back into the fold, will he be assured of a place in the final 15 in the ODI World Cup squad?

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Lord Grand Master

Lord

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On 9/20/2023 at 7:11 PM, Nikhil_cric said:

Who hasn't looked pedestrian though?  Jadeja is the most economical of all the said options but he is the absolute worst with the bat currently  and cannot bat at 7. 

 

Axar is easily the best hitter out of the lot and can make a real difference with the bat. His bowling may be less threatening but against BD at least it was acceptable considering his hitting prowess. He was no worse than Jadeja

 

Sundar is the next best batsman after Axar and I think he will do a job with both bat and ball but he's not consistent.

 

Ashwin as an ODI cricketer was a spent force way back in 2015. His record against top sides after that World Cup is horrendous.  And he may be better than Jadeja with the bat but he's nowhere near Axar.

 

Considering all this, I think we need Axar more than anyone else. If he's out,  our squad becomes even weaker.

 

Ofcourse he was. vs SL where everyone turned the ball and picked wickets, Axar was bang average and almost gave the game away.

 

He's better batter/hitter but worse bowler and fielder. There's no easy fix to this.

 

If we just want better batsman, might as well pick Tilak. There's no need of Axar.

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rkt.india Grand Master

rkt.india

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23 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

We have only Tewatia

Bishnoi & R Chahar can't be called as allrounders.

Tewatias bowling is under utilized, otherwise fine for 7. Bishnoi is not a leggie, Rahul certainly is improving his batting some hard hitting innings in RPL, 10 ball 30 etc. I can groom him at 8, proper leggie. Try Tewatia at 7 for few days to see it his bowling as 5 bowlers works. We actually need two specialist spin alrounder at 7-8. Or a seam alrounder at 8. It's not difficult to groom such players if you thik properly and out of pecking order.

Edited by rkt.india
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singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Tewatias bowling is under utilized, otherwise fine for 7. Bishnoi is not a leggie, Rahul certainly is improving his batting some hard hitting innings in RPL, 10 ball 30 etc. I can groom him at 8, proper leggie. Try Tewatia at 7 for few days to see it his bowling as 5 bowlers works. We actually need two specialist spin alrounder at 7-8. Or a seam alrounder at 8. It's not difficult to groom such players if you thik properly and out of pecking order.

True, and tbh we already have options as well.

For no 7...we have Axar, Washington & Tewatia (very capable batters and decent options as our 5th bowler)

For no 8..Harshit & Hangargekar are ahead, after them we have Yudhvir & Gurnoor (all 4 are tall, hit the deck quicks with big hitting ability)

For no 9...both Bishnoi & R Chahar are handy with bat and are good bowling options.

 

We don't lack the players for these positions, we're suffering due to the reluctance & hesitation by our selectors to trust & try out new players.

 

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putrevus Grand Master

putrevus

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3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

True, and tbh we already have options as well.

For no 7...we have Axar, Washington & Tewatia (very capable batters and decent options as our 5th bowler)

For no 8..Harshit & Hangargekar are ahead, after them we have Yudhvir & Gurnoor (all 4 are tall, hit the deck quicks with big hitting ability)

For no 9...both Bishnoi & R Chahar are handy with bat and are good bowling options.

 

We don't lack the players for these positions, we're suffering due to the reluctance & hesitation by our selectors to trust & try out new players.

 

So if they are good enough to play international cricket as bowlers, how many of them are bowling in LIST A and in IPL.

 

Washington is not good enough to be number 7 .

 

Harshit and Hangargekar will get their chances and should they be good enough they will play next world cup.

 

Axar as bowler is awful.

 

Bishnoi is one pitch wonder, who has shown no improvement in bowling and I don't think he is good enough at even number 10.

 

Tewatia does not even bowl for his IPL team. Why is he not bowling in LIST A since 2022?

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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

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On 9/22/2023 at 10:19 PM, Frustrated said:

I think Ashwin has been given the responsibilty of a finisher with the bat.   He is doing batting practice at mid night 12.   :laugh:

 

Although i was a bit mixed with his selection he always tries to contribute in more than one ways. There was a point where he even practiced leg spin when Kulcha replaced him and Jaddu. That committment is something lacking in some of our players.  He is a bit like Steve smith in terms of  thinking. He makes on the spot change to his technique to suit the pitch. It may or may not work. But he will do it. That crouched stance he adopted for RR this season.  When i watch this tiktoking collar chewer it is irritating. He did not add one bit to his existing skill. Bishnoi who is even more smaller than Chahal works on his batting.

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