This brought tears to my eyes....

[rangeelaraja]

22 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

 

Agree with all points but he said his dream is that all Indians to rhyme to this too...  Can't help but think he needs validation of Muslims/Christians of some sort. 

Hinduism is enough for those who follow it.  It is fluid in nature & literally open to everyone.  

Why have Abrahamaic fetishes in the first place? 

They do feel very proud of such instances. 

Here Muslim Singers compose Hindu Bhajans for decades which is so common as you said above. 

Hindus need to let go of inferiority complex firstly.  

No wonder Abrahamaics make fun of us at every step of the way. 

 

You don't make any sense because you are unable to comprehend the context.

 

There is no inferiority complex here or low self esteem or Abrahamaic "fetish " in what i said. 

 

It is about the using the one uniting / binding factor for the people of India - which is  the glorious sanatani  heritage and ancestry.  Otherwise the country is divided by religion, caste, languages, sects ...etc etc.  There is no other unifying factor for the people of India but a common Sanatani / Vedic heritage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

You don't make any sense because you are unable to comprehend the context.

 

There is no inferiority complex here or low self esteem or Abrahamaic "fetish " in what i said. 

 

It is about the using the one uniting / binding factor for the people of India - which is  the glorious sanatani  heritage and ancestry.  Otherwise the country is divided by religion, caste, languages, sects ...etc etc.  There is no other unifying factor for the people of India but a common Sanatani / Vedic heritage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Sanatani vedic heritage only belongs to 1 billion Hindu/Sikh/Jain /bodh  in the country.  That's the whole point.  I am in 100% agreement that it is 

Most unifying factor within Sanatanis which are divided...  And UC's are in fact minorities in the country. 

You are delusional to think 30 crore Abrahamaics have Sanatan heritage in common with us..  That boat sailed centuries ago.  They are the biggest most influential group in the world...  They have no reason to integrate with us. 

Sanatanis never fully integrated with them coz we are on opposite set of spectrum. 

We are just stuck with them in a unforeseen experiment that is India... An uneasy Partnership. 

If you look at Western articles back in 70's & 80's they were certain India won't last long & country is a ticking time bomb.  It's a miracle how far we have come. 

Be grateful for that.  We are not a homogeneous society like East Asians to brag common past & heritage. 

[Muloghonto]

29 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

The Sanatani vedic heritage only belongs to 1 billion Hindu/Sikh/Jain /bodh  in the country.  That's the whole point.  I am in 100% agreement that it is 

Most unifying factor within Sanatanis which are divided...  And UC's are in fact minorities in the country. 

You are delusional to think 30 crore Abrahamaics have Sanatan heritage in common with us..  That boat sailed centuries ago.  They are the biggest most influential group in the world...  They have no reason to integrate with us. 

Sanatanis never fully integrated with them coz we are on opposite set of spectrum. 

We are just stuck with them in a unforeseen experiment that is India... An uneasy Partnership. 

If you look at Western articles back in 70's & 80's they were certain India won't last long & country is a ticking time bomb.  It's a miracle how far we have come. 

Be grateful for that.  We are not a homogeneous society like East Asians to brag common past & heritage. 

what i am hearing is that sanatanis are far better at multiculturalism than the homogenous western or east asian societies. aka, we are the model benchmark for multicultural society. 

[rangeelaraja]

33 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

The Sanatani vedic heritage only belongs to 1 billion Hindu/Sikh/Jain /bodh  in the country.  That's the whole point.  I am in 100% agreement that it is 

Most unifying factor within Sanatanis which are divided...  And UC's are in fact minorities in the country. 

You are delusional to think 30 crore Abrahamaics have Sanatan heritage in common with us..  That boat sailed centuries ago.  They are the biggest most influential group in the world...  They have no reason to integrate with us. 

Sanatanis never fully integrated with them coz we are on opposite set of spectrum. 

We are just stuck with them in a unforeseen experiment that is India... An uneasy Partnership. 

If you look at Western articles back in 70's & 80's they were certain India won't last long & country is a ticking time bomb.  It's a miracle how far we have come. 

Be grateful for that.  We are not a homogeneous society like East Asians to brag common past & heritage. 

 

 

Sorry you are the delusional one here. You should study history some more.

 

Just because some tens of thousands of families from lets say Kerala ( who have had a deeply ancient hindu ancestry ) went to the Gulf in the 60s, 70s, 80s ...and were lured to convert, they don't all of a sudden become " abrahamaics" .  Ditto with OBC, SC, ST folks who were lured by NGOs/ missionaries ( the rice bag variety ).

 

These people have Hindu first names and Muslim last names or hindu first names and christian last names. How are they " abrahamaics" .

 

It is not impossible to induce ghar vapsi to the Santan and Vedic fold with Govt sponsored social engineering.

 

 

 

[nevada]

On 2/7/2024 at 6:45 PM, MechEng said:

You follow Sanatan Dharma

 

I follow Santana Dharma....

 

 

Do you know that Santana followed Sanatan Dharma for a while taking the name of Dharma Deep? 

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, nevada said:

Do you know that Santana followed Sanatan Dharma for a while taking the name of Dharma Deep? 

Can't help the deracinated.

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 2/8/2024 at 10:58 AM, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

 

@BacktoCricaddict @Mariyam

 

My thoughts :

 

Most Hindus see Islam as a religion forced into the subcontinent by barbaric invaders right from Bin Qasim to Mughals to Afghans.

 

And the reason why 99 %  Hindus don't care about teachings of Islam is because for the longest time since it's inception there has been a history of forceful proslytization.  The thought is, if Islam's philosophy and prescribed way of life is so great - people would adopt it,  the fact that there has been forceful conversions makes non-muslims think of it as a political cult not a religion or peaceful spirituality.  Ordinary people / critics quote dozens of verses in the holy book that call for heinous violence against non- believers.

 

Just look at our neighborhood - Afghanistan was Hindu Buddhist, Iran was entirely Zoorashtrian, Lebanon was entirely Christian - being so close to the Arabian peninsula- they were converted by brute force in a very short period of time.

 

The Sikh religion and Sikh came into being as a " martial "  religion to fight these forced conversions when there was no unity among Hindu kings and there were too many tiny fragmented kingdoms - who could not face invading Islamic armies. Just read up about how Guru Arjan Dev was burnt alive because he resisted forceful conversion.

 

Also do read up Guru Gobind Singh's letter Zafarnama to Aurangazeb  - it is well chronicled. 

 

Finally - most people feel, the actions of so many invaders who forced conversions in the lands they conquered - they are from different parts of the world 

- Turkics, Western Turkics, Afghans, Saudis, Uzbeks...etc etc....how could they all act in the same manner when they are from different/unrelated parts of the world -

the answer one gets it - they are all following teachings in the book on how to spread the "philosophy ".

 

I would love to be corrected for any factual inaccuracies.

 

Finally, please do watch this 1 minute clip about what KK Muhammed says about Hinduism and other religions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post. And a good explanation by the archeologist Dr. Muhammed.

 

I get your point about Islam spreading in India as a result of invasions. But today's Muslims in India are just Muslims who follow what they were born into.

 

It got me thinking about what really it is about the OP that I found objectionable. And maybe I can explain it here. I think there are 3 aspects:

 

(1) There is a sense of evangelism that reminds me of Christian evangelism. It's not nearly as intense or intentional yet, but there are elements of it - that our way is superior, that we need to bring others into the fold so they are enlightened etc.

 

(2) Tying Sanaatana Dharma to obeisance to specific deities and the joy that Hindus are supposed to feel when a non-adherent shares this obeisance. Even to me who grew up as a Hindu, Raamacharitamaanasa was not truly part of my heritage. And no one else can tell me otherwise that it is (including self-anointed Sanaatanis on ICF). It is a beautiful text written in the 1500s (? I think), and in no way have I ever identified with it except in History class where I had to memorize books and authors. But now, there is a sense of a litmus test that some authority says must be fulfilled before someone is considered a Sanaatani (e.g., obeisance to all-things Raama, especially new the temple). I know you didn't say that directly, but somehow I felt that implication. Dr. Muhammed beautifully put it, there are (and should be) no rules in Hinduism.

 

(3) A government and government officials getting involved in "spreading the word." Again, this seems like a reflection of what I see with Christian nationalism.

 

Overall, this is perhaps where we differ fundamentally: In my mind, a person's belief system and choice of heritage is an individual choice, and no collective has the right to actively change an individual's choice in this regard.

 

If someone decides that the belief system into which he/she was born is the one he/she wants to follow, so be it. If an individual would rather follow a path different from the one in which he/she was born, so be it as well. So, if someone decided to convert from Hinduism to Islam (or vice-versa) even 10 years ago, why should that choice be invalid?  Accept their choice.  Every individual makes his/her own combination of traditions and heritage-choices. Said in an extreme way - tradition is just peer-pressure from dead people.

 

If you want people to see that your way is better, perhaps it is wiser to lead not with religious texts and symbols, but by serving them economically and educationally with no regard for their allegiance to specific deities or traditions, so that they can see their own light.

 

I hesitate to have faith-related conversations, but slipped up and inserted myself.  Will go back to listening now :-).

Edited February 10 by BacktoCricaddict

[coffee_rules]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:49 PM, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

 

Good post. And a good explanation by the archeologist Dr. Muhammed.

 

I get your point about Islam spreading in India as a result of invasions. But today's Muslims in India are just Muslims who follow what they were born into.

 

It got me thinking about what really it is about the OP that I found objectionable. And maybe I can explain it here. I think there are 3 aspects:

 

(1) There is a sense of evangelism that reminds me of Christian evangelism. It's not nearly as intense or intentional yet, but there are elements of it - that our way is superior, that we need to bring others into the fold so they are enlightened etc.

 

(2) Tying Sanaatana Dharma to obeisance to specific deities and the joy that Hindus are supposed to feel when a non-adherent shares this obeisance. Even to me who grew up as a Hindu, Raamacharitamaanasa was not truly part of my heritage. And no one else can tell me otherwise that it is (including self-anointed Sanaatanis on ICF). It is a beautiful text written in the 1500s (? I think), and in no way have I ever identified with it except in History class where I had to memorize books and authors. But now, there is a sense of a litmus test that some authority says must be fulfilled before someone is considered a Sanaatani (e.g., obeisance to all-things Raama, especially new the temple). I know you didn't say that directly, but somehow I felt that implication. Dr. Muhammed beautifully put it, there are (and should be) no rules in Hinduism.

 

(3) A government and government officials getting involved in "spreading the word." Again, this seems like a reflection of what I see with Christian nationalism.

 

Overall, this is perhaps where we differ fundamentally: In my mind, a person's belief system and choice of heritage is an individual choice, and no collective has the right to actively change an individual's choice in this regard.

 

If someone decides that the belief system into which he/she was born is the one he/she wants to follow, so be it. If an individual would rather follow a path different from the one in which he/she was born, so be it as well. So, if someone decided to convert from Hinduism to Islam (or vice-versa) even 10 years ago, why should that choice be invalid?  Accept their choice.  Every individual makes his/her own combination of traditions and heritage-choices. Said in an extreme way - tradition is just peer-pressure from dead people.

 

If you want people to see that your way is better, perhaps it is wiser to lead not with religious texts and symbols, but by serving them economically and educationally with no regard for their allegiance to specific deities or traditions, so that they can see their own light.

 

I hesitate to have faith-related conversations, but slipped up and inserted myself.  Will go back to listening now :-).

Yen guru! Sakhataagi rubbuta iddiya! (Kya re itna gyaan pel raha hain! 
 

Individual choices have to be respected in any modern society, otherwise it leads to a parochial society. In Indian perspective, there is too much of “secular” brainwashing of Hindus . For nation building , we should see less of it and let non-Hindus warm up to a nation with an Indian civilizational antiquity. This is not supremacy , just a feeling of a unique exceptionalism of our common identity. 
Tago, Nandu ondirli

[ravishingravi]

Yogiji nailing the point.