What has Ben Stokes done in test matches outside England as an all-rounder?

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Undoubtedly. But which are his notable performances outside England in tests?

That 258 he scored in SA is higher than any Indian batsmen in SENA. 

[Majestic]

One thing with Stokes is that he has very few not outs so as he bats at 5 or 6 mostly so that average of 36 don't justify his batting ability.

 

He is possibly a level ahead of Jadeja as a batsman but Jadeja is two levels ahead as a bowler.

[putrevus]

If Stokes was just one player format, he would not have gotten this much reputation.

 

But he can play all three formats very well.One thing  he has and  not many players have is clutch gene.

 

He has played some very clutch innings which any top order batsman will be proud off.

 

While England has stokes , we are stuck with a bits and pieces player who never has ability to raise his level in eight years except one bloody flukey inings.

 

Jadeja is ATG in tests but he is not in same class in other formats. You cannot isolate just test cricket version of Ben Stokes.

 

If both of healthy and at their best even in tests in India, Ben Stokes would be selected over Jadeja. 

 

 

[Gollum]

On 2/10/2024 at 8:41 PM, putrevus said:

That 258 he scored in SA is higher than any Indian batsmen in SENA. 

If RSA ever dares to give such a pitch to India, Shreyas Iyer will score 300. Have you seen the scorecard of that match? 

[Gollum]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If both of healthy and at their best even in tests in India, Ben Stokes would be selected over Jadeja. 

If you select Stokes over Jadeja in India that too in tests (at their best or whatever), it is pointless to discuss cricket with you. 

Edited February 12 by Gollum

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

If RSA ever dares to give such a pitch to India, Shreyas Iyer will score 300. Have you seen the scorecard of that match? 

Are you kidding Iyer would be bounced in fist over on that pitch. Number 6 and number 7 scoring that many runs is not easy.

 

Yes I have seen the scorecard and the match also.

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

If you select Stokes over Jadeja in India that too in tests (at their best or whatever), it is pointless to discuss cricket with you. 

You just are not getting it. It is like choosing who is better allrounder between Imran and Kapil Dev. Kapil to me wins hands down.

 

He had the special ability as a batsman which Imran even in his 100 lives cannot dream.Imran was a bowler who could bat but he was not in the same class as Kapil in batting.

 

Stokes and Jadeja are similar. Stokes batting ability is much higher than Jadeja. 

 

Jadeja is the reason why India is unbeaten at home in last decade and he is a great great player.

[Soldier]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:49 AM, putrevus said:

You just are not getting it. It is like choosing who is better allrounder between Imran and Kapil Dev. Kapil to me wins hands down.

 

He had the special ability as a batsman which Imran even in his 100 lives cannot dream.Imran was a bowler who could bat but he was not in the same class as Kapil in batting.

 

Stokes and Jadeja are similar. Stokes batting ability is much higher than Jadeja. 

 

Jadeja is the reason why India is unbeaten at home in last decade and he is a great great player.

kapil dev over imran ? i disagree. in tests ? in odi maybe there is a case. 

 

in tests ? no chance

 

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, Soldier said:

kapil dev over imran ? i disagree. in tests ? in odi maybe there is a case. 

 

in tests ? no chance

 

In ODIs, kapil is comfortably above imran. not in tests though

[Soldier]

35 minutes ago, Vijy said:

In ODIs, kapil is comfortably above imran. not in tests though

Yea it's all nostalgia. People tend to overrate the past greats even if current greats look or atleats appear to be better. 

 

Imran gets overrated in odi due to his test exploits. Imran the test bowler sure. Bonafide atg. Probably amongst the best ever. 

 

In odi no. 

 

Waqar too. Great in odi only. Not so much in tests. Very good in tests but not at the elite tier.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Soldier said:

Yea it's all nostalgia. People tend to overrate the past greats even if current greats look or atleats appear to be better. 

 

Imran gets overrated in odi due to his test exploits. Imran the test bowler sure. Bonafide atg. Probably amongst the best ever. 

 

In odi no. 

 

Waqar too. Great in odi only. Not so much in tests. Very good in tests but not at the elite tier.

waqar was great pre-injury in tests, albeit vs weak teams. he used to bully the bloody kiwis for fun

[Lord]

Great spell today by the allrounder when England were searching for wickets

[Muloghonto]

On 2/10/2024 at 4:57 AM, putrevus said:

No he is not, he is not even close to Stokes. Don't get confused with Jadeja just because he is Indian.

Jaddu is a far better bowler than stokes ever was and as a batsman, far more reliable in his second half of his career. and in fielding its not even close.

 

[R!TTER]

Not really, you've got almost everything right except that fielding part - Jadeja is a great outfielder & even close in but he's generally poor catcher behind the wickets & extremely safe in the outfield. Stokes is an exceptional catcher everywhere - I'd argue the best of this generation & probably on par with ABDV at his peak, when he also kept wickets.

[Majestic]

In terms of batting :

 

Stokes - 6/10

Jadeja - 5.5/10

 

Bowling :

 

Stokes - 5/10

Jadeja - 8/10

 

 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, R!TTER said:

Not really, you've got almost everything right except that fielding part - Jadeja is a great outfielder & even close in but he's generally poor catcher behind the wickets & extremely safe in the outfield. Stokes is an exceptional catcher everywhere - I'd argue the best of this generation & probably on par with ABDV at his peak, when he also kept wickets.

No one comes close to the modern jonty in all round fielding capacity. If you combine Jaddu and Stokes, you will get an ABDV.
Catching in the cordon is a specialised skill. Its very rare for bowlers/bowling dominant all rounder to be good cordon catchers. IIRC only Warney comes to mind as a bonafide slip catcher who's a bowler.

 

[R!TTER]

You forgot Kallis, Anderson, Southee? All of them kept in slips, and Kallis was permanent second(first?) slip for most of his career. Point being Stokes overall is just as good a fielder as Jadeja, probably not as athletic because Jadeja is rather small but he's a better catcher.

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You forgot Kallis, Anderson, Southee? All of them kept in slips, and Kallis was permanent second(first?) slip for most of his career. Point being Stokes overall is just as good a fielder as Jadeja, probably not as athletic because Jadeja is rather small but he's a better catcher.

Kallis is not a bowling dominant allrounder. He is a batting dominant allrounder. Anderson and Southee are very oridnary as slip catchers. Stokes is not as good a fielder as Jadeja. Simply because Jadeja can be put in a lot more fielding positions than Stokes and Stokes is not an ATG cordon catcher to make up for the lack of his fielding skills compared to Jaddu. 

 

[tapandrun]

Allrounders are force multipliers, taking batting and bowling stats separately will never show how good/bad they were/are.

 

Right now he is the only fast bowling allrounder, baring Pandya so not much to compare with. He has played some  magical innings. He was bowling and batting before getting injured but now he is not bowling as much plus Eng. has luxury of having players who can fit both the batter and bowlers role.

 

In Asia they have Root and outside Asia they have Curran

[R!TTER]

Stokes was never half the bowler even at his (bowling) peak as Jadeja was at his peak. And Curran isn't even in the test team anymore so let's put him aside.