To all those dreamers…..

[Lord]

49 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's almost as if everyone knows for sure that Dravid is calling all the shots when it comes to selection , strategy everything .

 

Rohit Sharma , Agarkar , Jay Shah have no say at all and are at Dravid's mercy .

 

Very plausible 

 

Only if certain players are selection*

[BlueBlood]

The joke of the century here is...

 

They tried Varun Chakravarthy in that mess of a T20 world cup in 2021. Even though he was the best economical bowler in the team the few chances he got, he was quickly discarded even though he did nothing wrong and the real culprits were Rohit, KL Rahul, Kohli, Jadeja and the inept batting department.

 

All 4 are set to play even 3+ years later.

 

Same was done for Umran Malik and same will be done for Mayank Yadav and similar bowlers.

 

It's fascinating to me that people are so dumb that they still don't realize this. What happens if batting fails again and these bowlers with their pace are unable to defend low totals? They will be discarded again.

 

This fandom on Ajit Agarkar is hilarious. Anyone will look like a genius in home Indian conditions. Remember the time Axar was the team's best bowler vs. England at home?

What happened to him later? Got owned in foreign conditions.

 

What will happen to Agarkar when Jurel, Sarfaraz fail a few tests in overseas conditions? They will be dumped and stars like Gill, KL Rahul, Jadeja etc. will be preferred over them even with worse stats.

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's almost as if everyone knows for sure that Dravid is calling all the shots when it comes to selection , strategy everything .

 

Rohit Sharma , Agarkar , Jay Shah have no say at all and are at Dravid's mercy .

 

Very plausible 

 

Dravid is, after all, Darth Sidious (Palpatine). He calls the shots from behind the scenes while wearing a hood and cackling about: "TRUNDLERS! UNLIMITED TRUNDLERS!"

 

@express bowling@singhvivek141@Lord@Mosher@Suhaan@raki05@Kron@Lone Wolf

[Vijy]

16 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

The joke of the century here is...

 

They tried Varun Chakravarthy in that mess of a T20 world cup in 2021. Even though he was the best economical bowler in the team the few chances he got, he was quickly discarded even though he did nothing wrong and the real culprits were Rohit, KL Rahul, Kohli, Jadeja and the inept batting department.

 

All 4 are set to play even 3+ years later.

 

Same was done for Umran Malik and same will be done for Mayank Yadav and similar bowlers.

 

It's fascinating to me that people are so dumb that they still don't realize this. What happens if batting fails again and these bowlers with their pace are unable to defend low totals? They will be discarded again.

 

This fandom on Ajit Agarkar is hilarious. Anyone will look like a genius in home Indian conditions. Remember the time Axar was the team's best bowler vs. England at home?

What happened to him later? Got owned in foreign conditions.

 

What will happen to Agarkar when Jurel, Sarfaraz fail a few tests in overseas conditions? They will be dumped and stars like Gill, KL Rahul, Jadeja etc. will be preferred over them even with worse stats.

Axar ceased to become effective just about anywhere. bowled terribly vs Aus on home pitches. Moreover, we should not fix formats: he was always mediocre in LOIs.

 

Axar looking good on home-made bunsens, and Mayank looking good at home are two different things. former was highly doctored to favor axar; the latter, in fact, disfavors any kind of bowler (pitches are mostly pattas)

[cricspirit]

3 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's almost as if everyone knows for sure that Dravid is calling all the shots when it comes to selection , strategy everything .

 

Rohit Sharma , Agarkar , Jay Shah have no say at all and are at Dravid's mercy .

 

Very plausible 

 

 

People need easy targets to vent

and blame.

 

Dravid is one such target. Before shastri was barked at daily. Anyone who becomes coach will be blamed. Sometimes captain. Depends on convenience. 

 

Lot of people here think they know more about cricket and understand strategy better than  those in charge. Problem is people will always think someone else will do a better job. They even fancy themselves doing a better job. When time comes to perform a task people think they  can easily do, find it the hard way that it's not that easy of straightforward as they thought.

[Kron]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

Dravid is, after all, Darth Sidious (Palpatine). He calls the shots from behind the scenes while wearing a hood and cackling about: "TRUNDLERS! UNLIMITED TRUNDLERS!"

 

@express bowling@singhvivek141@Lord@Mosher@Suhaan@raki05@Kron@Lone Wolf

Ok you want trundlers fine. Go with trundlers in t20 I don't cre but atleast pick trundlers who can bat well. That's my request. 

 

Batting till 9 10. 

[Kron]

1 hour ago, cricspirit said:

 

People need easy targets to vent

and blame.

 

Dravid is one such target. Before shastri was barked at daily. Anyone who becomes coach will be blamed. Sometimes captain. Depends on convenience. 

 

Lot of people here think they know more about cricket and understand strategy better than  those in charge. Problem is people will always think someone else will do a better job. They even fancy themselves doing a better job. When time comes to perform a task people think they  can easily do, find it the hard way that it's not that easy of straightforward as they thought.

It's not easy due to power politics in play, nepo quota and pressure from external sources. 

 

But if dravid is truly calling shots then yes he is doing a terrible job.

[Vijy]

36 minutes ago, Kron said:

Ok you want trundlers fine. Go with trundlers in t20 I don't cre but atleast pick trundlers who can bat well. That's my request. 

 

Batting till 9 10. 

dravid luurves trundlers, especially if they cannot bat. POWER! TRUNDLER POWER!

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, cricspirit said:

 

People need easy targets to vent

and blame.

 

Dravid is one such target. Before shastri was barked at daily. Anyone who becomes coach will be blamed. Sometimes captain. Depends on convenience. 

 

Lot of people here think they know more about cricket and understand strategy better than  those in charge. Problem is people will always think someone else will do a better job. They even fancy themselves doing a better job. When time comes to perform a task people think they  can easily do, find it the hard way that it's not that easy of straightforward as they thought.

I don't think most people on ICF claim/think that they are better at all things than the actual players, TM, coach, etc. however, they have: (a) the right to critique asinine decisions, some of which were identified in advance; and (b) sometimes been ahead of the queue in spotting promising talent. for instance, likes of @express bowling and @rkt.india, among several others, have posted about promising pacers before they even started playing senior cricket or major U19 (e.g., world cup) cricket.

[Kron]

8 hours ago, Vijy said:

I don't think most people on ICF claim/think that they are better at all things than the actual players, TM, coach, etc. however, they have: (a) the right to critique asinine decisions, some of which were identified in advance; and (b) sometimes been ahead of the queue in spotting promising talent. for instance, likes of @express bowling and @rkt.india, among several others, have posted about promising pacers before they even started playing senior cricket or major U19 (e.g., world cup) cricket.

Bro upper management don't know **** in bcci. They don't overlook domestic tournaments. Scouts are supposed to do that. 

 

People from icf who watch domestics are far more knowledgeable than upper management of bcci. They don't watch all the games. They just judge based on 'stats' trundlerism and batting inability culture. 

Edited April 4 by Kron

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, cricspirit said:

 

People need easy targets to vent

and blame.

 

Dravid is one such target. Before shastri was barked at daily. Anyone who becomes coach will be blamed. Sometimes captain. Depends on convenience. 

 

Lot of people here think they know more about cricket and understand strategy better than  those in charge. Problem is people will always think someone else will do a better job. They even fancy themselves doing a better job. When time comes to perform a task people think they  can easily do, find it the hard way that it's not that easy of straightforward as they thought.

 

You are right to a large extent. If I or you or anyone else were made the coach of Team India, we would all do a terrible job in all probability. So many aspects are at play with pressure from super stars, board members, sponsors, IPL franchises, managing egos, managing factions within the team etc.

 

The coach's job is not easy to say the least. 

 

However one aspect has always irked me regarding Indian cricket. And it is the fact that 90% of the Indian cricket fraternity seem to be oblivious of the fact that there are certain player types which work in international cricket and it is format specific too. 

 

The last TM of Shastri and Kohli did a good job regarding choice of pace bowlers in tests and wrist spinners in LOIs for a short period. Were below par regarding choice of batters across formats and pacers in LOIs. The results were in sync with this too. Pacers won us some tests / series outside Asia and we could have done better if the batsmen were chosen with more vision. And we did well in bilateral LOIs when Kulcha were in prime form.

 

The issue with this TM is that they have messed up the only aspect that was going right during the last TM's tenure. Our test match pace bowling. While there have been some improvements on the batting front.

 

Any coach will have to pick superstars like Kohli and Rohit in reality.And there are some automatic picks like Bumrah etc. But the real test comes when the issue is choosing fringe players and newbies. This TM has been bad in this aspect and especially so when it comes to pacers. I still can't forget how they  filled the squad with floaty pacers for WC in Australia. 

 

Dravid gets more blame than Rohit because he has been the constant factor while there have been multiple captains. But Rohit's choices have played a big part too. Apart from 2 recent test series and the Asia Cup, we have faced too many losses in the last 2.5 years.

 

If vision is not shown while picking / playing / backing newbies with high ceiling, this is an area that deserves criticism and is definitely do-able by any quality coach.

 

 

 

Edited April 4 by express bowling

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

You are right to a large extent. If I or you or anyone else were made the coach of Team India, we would all do a terrible job in all probability. So many aspects are at play with pressure from super stars, board members, sponsors, IPL franchises, managing egos, managing factions within the team etc.

 

The coach's job is not easy to say the least. 

 

However one aspect has always irked me regarding Indian cricket. And it is the fact that 90% of the Indian cricket fraternity seem to be oblivious of the fact that there are certain player types which work in international cricket and it is format specific too. 

 

The last TM of Shastri and Kohli did a good job regarding choice of pace bowlers in tests and wrist spinners in LOIs for a short period. Were below par regarding choice of batters across formats and pacers in LOIs. The results were in sync with this too. Pacers won us some tests / series outside Asia and we could have done better if the batsmen were chosen with more vision. And we did well in bilateral LOIs when Kulcha were in prime form.

 

The issue with this TM is that they have messed up the only aspect that was going right during the last TM's tenure. Our test match pace bowling. While there have been some improvements on the batting front.

 

Any coach will have to pick superstars like Kohli and Rohit in reality.And there are some automatic picks like Bumrah etc. But the real test comes when the issue is choosing fringe players and newbies. This TM has been bad in this aspect and especially so when it comes to pacers. I still can't forget how they  filled the squad with floaty pacers for WC in Australia. 

 

Dravid gets more blame than Rohit because he has been the constant factor while there have been multiple captains. But Rohit's choices have played a big part too. Apart from 2 recent test series and the Asia Cup, we have faced too many losses in the last 2.5 years.

 

If vision is not shown while picking / playing / backing newbies with high ceiling, this is an area that deserves criticism and is definitely do-able by any quality coach.

 

 

 

I agree with the first part. There is a lot of pressure on BCCI from sponsors and broadcasters to include certain players. 

 

A World Cup in America and that too in NYC would demand the presence of Kohli and Rohit . 

 

Unfortunately , both domestic and diaspora fans are more invested in individuals rather than the team as a whole.

 

 

I don't agree with the last part at all.

 

The Indian team management, especially the coach , should not be concerned with who comes through the pipeline and ideally should not have a big say in the squads selected.

 

Identifying high ceiling players and investing in them is upto the domestic network of coaches and selectors. 

 

Rajat Patidar is the apotheosis of this irrational Dravid hate. 

 

If Patidar is not a high ceiling player , then why was he selected for India 'A'  in the first place? Thats where the questions need to be asked. 

 

If Patidar then performs in the said A match by some fluke,  then we can't either blame Agarkar or Dravid for selecting them.

 

Dravid was very clear in the England tour. He told the broadcaster that he believes anyone who makes it as far as the Indian team should be given enough chances and not have to endure an environment of insecurity about their spots. 

 

Many of the same fans who are calling for Patidar's head and hated the fact that he played 3 matches would have crucified Dravid if he had been dropped sooner as well .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

19 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I agree with the first part. There is a lot of pressure on BCCI from sponsors and broadcasters to include certain players. 

 

A World Cup in America and that too in NYC would demand the presence of Kohli and Rohit . 

 

Unfortunately , both domestic and diaspora fans are more invested in individuals rather than the team as a whole.

 

 

I don't agree with the last part at all.

 

The Indian team management, especially the coach , should not be concerned with who comes through the pipeline and ideally should not have a big say in the squads selected.

 

Identifying high ceiling players and investing in them is upto the domestic network of coaches and selectors. 

 

Rajat Patidar is the apotheosis of this irrational Dravid hate. 

 

If Patidar is not a high ceiling player , then why was he selected for India 'A'  in the first place? Thats where the questions need to be asked. 

 

If Patidar then performs in the said A match by some fluke,  then we can't either blame Agarkar or Dravid for selecting them.

 

Dravid was very clear in the England tour. He told the broadcaster that he believes anyone who makes it as far as the Indian team should be given enough chances and not have to endure an environment of insecurity about their spots. 

 

Many of the same fans who are calling for Patidar's head and hated the fact that he played 3 matches would have crucified Dravid if he had been dropped sooner as well .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet he dropped Akashdeep from the final Test, although we won the series already.

 

Now Akashdeep is not playing IPL as well and there is no guarantee that he will be a candidate for T20 WC, soon the bowlers which are selected for T20 WC will be picked for ODI & Test series as well & Akashdeep be lost in the oblivion.

 

We have seen the same trend with Umran & Kuldeep Sen. Akashdeep is on verge of getting the same treatment.

[Nikhil_cric]

15 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Yet he dropped Akashdeep from the final Test, although we won the series already.

 

Now Akashdeep is not playing IPL as well and there is no guarantee that he will be a candidate for T20 WC, soon the bowlers which are selected for T20 WC will be picked for ODI & Test series as well & Akashdeep be lost in the oblivion.

 

We have seen the same trend with Umran & Kuldeep Sen. Akashdeep is on verge of getting the same treatment.

My point is , do we know that Dravid is responsible for these decisions ?

 

Any credible reports for this.  And how de we know it's not Rohit Sharma's doing ?

 

Or is it simply because Akashdeep does not have the old ball skills yet as he showed on debut even though his new ball skills are top class.

 

Siraj did perform fairly well with the old ball even though I wanted both Akashdeep and Bumrah to bowl myself. 

[express bowling]

40 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

 

I don't agree with the last part at all.

 

The Indian team management, especially the coach , should not be concerned with who comes through the pipeline and ideally should not have a big say in the squads selected.

 

Identifying high ceiling players and investing in them is upto the domestic network of coaches and selectors. 

 

What should not happen is a different thing. 

 

In Indian cricket, high profile captains and coaches get the players they want.  Even more so when the Selectors are low profile ones, and most of them are. 

 

Only recently, with a higher profile chief selector, what should be happening has happened in a series or two. 

 

Indian cricket is not a professional setup yet.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Rajat Patidar is the apotheosis of this irrational Dravid hate. 

 

If Patidar is not a high ceiling player , then why was he selected for India 'A'  in the first place? Thats where the questions need to be asked. 

 

If Patidar then performs in the said A match by some fluke,  then we can't either blame Agarkar or Dravid for selecting them.

 

 

Patidar's choice or persisting with him was not wrong.

 

Many top batters thought that he is good.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

Dravid was very clear in the England tour. He told the broadcaster that he believes anyone who makes it as far as the Indian team should be given enough chances and not have to endure an environment of insecurity about their spots. 

 

Can not be mechanical regarding this aspect.

 

Good captains and coaches give long ropes to only those players who they think have a high ceiling.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Many of the same fans who are calling for Patidar's head and hated the fact that he played 3 matches would have crucified Dravid if he had been dropped sooner as well .

 

 

Fans will be emotional and can say anything.  Why be too bothered about this aspect.

 

But captains, coaches and selectors have to be objective. 

[Sandz]

12 hours ago, Vijy said:

Dravid is, after all, Darth Sidious (Palpatine). He calls the shots from behind the scenes while wearing a hood and cackling about: "TRUNDLERS! UNLIMITED TRUNDLERS!"

 

@express bowling@singhvivek141@Lord@Mosher@Suhaan@raki05@Kron@Lone Wolf

Dunno about that. Palpatine had heavy rollers for balls and took on the Jedi while Dravid has peanuts. Dravid is nothing like Palpatine, he is more like Meesa like Trundlers. 

[Vijy]

51 minutes ago, Sandz said:

Dunno about that. Palpatine had heavy rollers for balls and took on the Jedi while Dravid has peanuts. Dravid is nothing like Palpatine, he is more like Meesa like Trundlers. 

Darth Jar Jar Dravid

[bowl_out]

On 4/3/2024 at 2:04 AM, express bowling said:

Bumrah, Arshdeep and Mukesh are going.

 

One slot left.

 

Dravid will want Mohit or Sanderp Sharma or Avesh Khan. 

 

Agarkar will want Mayank.  

 

Even if Agarkar gets his way, will Dravid play Mayank in the 11   ? 

 

And there is a good chance that Dravid will get Mohit etc. 

Why Mukesh? I thought he was only in ODIs and occasional tests. Dravid might want Siraj instead 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, bowl_out said:

Why Mukesh? I thought he was only in ODIs and occasional tests. Dravid might want Siraj instead 

 

 

It's not my choice but based on the teams selected in the recent past in T20Is.

[MK55]

Not selecting Mayank right now will result in someone losing their job. If he remains fit, he’ll be unstoppable regardless of what anyone thinks or believes in.