Has South Africa blown up the best chance they will ever get in a final?

[mikeypbadana86]

46 minutes ago, gattaca said:

Handling pressure different. We had IPL as well for over a decade now but still couldn’t handle the pressure of finals. We lost over 7 finals ?  We were lucky it was SA and they did what they do. 

I beg to disagree that India lost only because of pressure . Anything can happen in finals since two best teams are playing. 

 

Why would dhoni win only one t20 World Cup out of 6 ?  we lost to SL in 2014 t20 final. T20's one knock/one spell/one catch could change . In finals, collectively bowling, batting and fielding should click.

 

2014 t20 World Cup. Batting failure to  set target . SL bowled very well to restrict us.

 

2016 t20 World Cup. Bowling failure. Ashwin bowled two no balls. West Indies chased the target. India lost the toss 

 

2015 ODI World Cup. Bowling failure . we have let AUS score 327. India lost the toss 

 

 

2017 ODI champions trophy. Bowling failure. Bumrahs no ball was lucky escape for fakahar zaman who got out otherwise. India won the toss 

 

2019 ODI World Cup.  bad luck of Indias innings being pushed to Next day due to rain.  Batting failure with 5/3 . India lost the toss 

 

2021 WTC - India could have gone for draw but forcing a result. Rishab pant brain fade shot cost the game. 

 

2022 WTC- Bowling failure

 

2023 ODI failure - Pitch doctoring  + Batting failure India lost the toss

 

 

2024 t20 ODI World Cup. Excellent batting effort after 35/3 with India scoring par score of 180. 

 

Effort of fast bowlers to get back into the game. Last but not the least fielding effort 

 

 

ICC tourney win = Bowling + Batting + Fielding + Luck + Crucial toss 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

38 minutes ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

In an otherwise great captaincy by rohit, bowling axar against klasen and axar going for 24 runs is not a great move.

I have wondered if using Axar at that point was forced by an over-rate concern. If so, it was a good move on balance. For the last 2 overs, we were an over in front (this flashed across the screen) so we could take our time, slow the game down, not panic and - most importantly - not have a PP 20th. That would've been disastrous.

[gattaca]

57 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I have wondered if using Axar at that point was forced by an over-rate concern. If so, it was a good move on balance. For the last 2 overs, we were an over in front (this flashed across the screen) so we could take our time, slow the game down, not panic and - most importantly - not have a PP 20th. That would've been disastrous.

For some one attacking kuldeep and then feeding axar was a bad considering we had good amount of runs on board.  Wasn’t  3 warnings before they cut runs ?

Edited July 2, 2024 by gattaca

[gattaca]

1 hour ago, mikeypbadana86 said:

I beg to disagree that India lost only because of pressure . Anything can happen in finals since two best teams are playing. 

 

Why would dhoni win only one t20 World Cup out of 6 ?  we lost to SL in 2014 t20 final. T20's one knock/one spell/one catch could change . In finals, collectively bowling, batting and fielding should click.

 

2014 t20 World Cup. Batting failure to  set target . SL bowled very well to restrict us.

 

2016 t20 World Cup. Bowling failure. Ashwin bowled two no balls. West Indies chased the target. India lost the toss 

 

2015 ODI World Cup. Bowling failure . we have let AUS score 327. India lost the toss 

 

 

2017 ODI champions trophy. Bowling failure. Bumrahs no ball was lucky escape for fakahar zaman who got out otherwise. India won the toss 

 

2019 ODI World Cup.  bad luck of Indias innings being pushed to Next day due to rain.  Batting failure with 5/3 . India lost the toss 

 

2021 WTC - India could have gone for draw but forcing a result. Rishab pant brain fade shot cost the game. 

 

2022 WTC- Bowling failure

 

2023 ODI failure - Pitch doctoring  + Batting failure India lost the toss

 

 

2024 t20 ODI World Cup. Excellent batting effort after 35/3 with India scoring par score of 180. 

 

Effort of fast bowlers to get back into the game. Last but not the least fielding effort 

 

 

ICC tourney win = Bowling + Batting + Fielding + Luck + Crucial toss 

 

Strategic decisions are bad when the pressure is on. Why would dhoni give it yuvraj who just recovered from cancer. He could have just came in and played but he didn’t. 
 

2016 was on Rahane and his conservative batting. This slow and conservative approach started here. 
 

2015 Australian team ahead. We weren’t great.

 

2017 again strategic decision of bowling instead of batting and also playing bhuvi ahead of shami. 
 

2019 poor selection of three keepers lol. DK was fit for t20 not ODIs at all. Rain also played spoilsport.

 

2022 was not bowling failure but rather conservative batting. England did same thing to Pakistan as well. They had inform shaheen and others as well. Again the conservative slow batting from Rohit and Kohli failed us. 
 

2023- Rohit was batting at good rate once he was out and we played slow and conservative again. We are scared when we loose wickets and conservative batting sets in. 

 

 

2024 - conservative batting from Kohli although it was warranted but he played slow till 17th. Kohli was playing real slow but axar and dive were batting at much faster rate. Kohli was there longest still couldn’t accelerate earlier than 17th. It was a repeat of 2022 WC Kohli score slow 50 and got out. 

 

My point is we play conservative cricket when we face semis or finals and loose. We did few poor strategic decisions as well.

[Singh bling]

They won against England where England required 25 of 18 with Livingstone and Brook in full flow. Anyday I will say that 30 in 30 with two overs of Bumrah was more difficult than 25 in 18 with Rabada, Jansen, Nortjie. 

 

Plus SA journey in this tournament was luck rather than achievement. 1 Run win against Nepal, 6 Runs Bangladesh. Hardly any comfortable win

 

It was just luck that in SF Afghanistan was in minnow mode o/w they would definitely choke against them

[Singh bling]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

This eerily reminds me of 2016 IPL final when RCB needed 60 odd runs in 7 or 8 overs iwth 8 wickets in hand.  A chase that could have been won in singles on a large ground. I know India with a long tail could do exactly the same botch up job (like they did against west indies last year). What happened there?

I guess many forgot their worst choke in T20. They required  just 126 to qualify not even a win in 2007 and they choked. The team had many big names. Smith, ABD, Morkel brothers boucher etc. Majority of them tailor made for T20 and they could not make 126. They were unbeaten team of tournament. 

[mikeypbadana86]

1 hour ago, gattaca said:

Strategic decisions are bad when the pressure is on. Why would dhoni give it yuvraj who just recovered from cancer. He could have just came in and played but he didn’t. 
 

2016 was on Rahane and his conservative batting. This slow and conservative approach started here. 
 

2015 Australian team ahead. We weren’t great.

 

2017 again strategic decision of bowling instead of batting and also playing bhuvi ahead of shami. 
 

2019 poor selection of three keepers lol. DK was fit for t20 not ODIs at all. Rain also played spoilsport.

 

2022 was not bowling failure but rather conservative batting. England did same thing to Pakistan as well. They had inform shaheen and others as well. Again the conservative slow batting from Rohit and Kohli failed us. 
 

2023- Rohit was batting at good rate once he was out and we played slow and conservative again. We are scared when we loose wickets and conservative batting sets in. 

 

 

2024 - conservative batting from Kohli although it was warranted but he played slow till 17th. Kohli was playing real slow but axar and dive were batting at much faster rate. Kohli was there longest still couldn’t accelerate earlier than 17th. It was a repeat of 2022 WC Kohli score slow 50 and got out. 

 

My point is we play conservative cricket when we face semis or finals and loose. We did few poor strategic decisions as well.

 

 

2024. we had to play conservative since rohit, surya and pant threw it away with nothing shots. Ultra aggressive batting going wrong should be accounted for like what happened to Newzeland in 2015 World Cup final.  Between, pitch was difficult to bat during first innings. Check this admission by kashav maharaja.

 

 

 

[mikeypbadana86]

7 hours ago, gattaca said:

Strategic decisions are bad when the pressure is on. Why would dhoni give it yuvraj who just recovered from cancer. He could have just came in and played but he didn’t. 
 

2016 was on Rahane and his conservative batting. This slow and conservative approach started here. 
 

2015 Australian team ahead. We weren’t great.

 

2017 again strategic decision of bowling instead of batting and also playing bhuvi ahead of shami. 
 

2019 poor selection of three keepers lol. DK was fit for t20 not ODIs at all. Rain also played spoilsport.

 

2022 was not bowling failure but rather conservative batting. England did same thing to Pakistan as well. They had inform shaheen and others as well. Again the conservative slow batting from Rohit and Kohli failed us. 
 

2023- Rohit was batting at good rate once he was out and we played slow and conservative again. We are scared when we loose wickets and conservative batting sets in. 

 

 

2024 - conservative batting from Kohli although it was warranted but he played slow till 17th. Kohli was playing real slow but axar and dive were batting at much faster rate. Kohli was there longest still couldn’t accelerate earlier than 17th. It was a repeat of 2022 WC Kohli score slow 50 and got out. 

 

My point is we play conservative cricket when we face semis or finals and loose. We did few poor strategic decisions as well.

 

2023- Rohit was batting at good rate once he was out and we played slow and conservative again. We are scared when we loose wickets and conservative batting sets in. 

 

You stand corrected. Once rohit threw it away(no need to go for an other big shot when he had already scored  6 and 4)  and shreyas iyyer gone for duck, the score was 80/3 . Kohli scored 54 off 63 balls, by no means a conservative innings. It's KL Rahul who messed up playing 66 off 105 balls. Please factor in , pitch doctoring anticipating AUS to bat first and india had fallen into its own trap of having to bat on slow pitch. Surya Kumar yadav plays freely and naturally, he could not time the ball on this slow pitch. Jadeja could not score runs. Had rohit outbatted   conservatively for an other 10 overs, India would have outdated Australia in the game. 

 

 

 injuries/luck factor : Hardik pandas  unavailability messed up Indias balance. Rishab pants unavailability meant we had to go with some one like KL Rahul who had the technique and game but not the mental fortitude. 

 

 

 

2019 poor selection of three keepers lol. DK was fit for t20 not ODIs at all. Rain also played spoilsport.

 

Luck factor/Injuries:  Shikhar Dawn was injured and was missed in the semis. Had he been available, he would have played as opener in place of Dinesh karthik. It was okay to play rishab pant and dhoni ( 50-50 call) which proved detrimental at the end. Why on earth the rain gods would come before Indias innings, push the match to next day with pitch being under covers which meant NZ had favorable swing conditions and also ball seaming a great deal off the surface. 

 

 

Strategic decisions are bad when the pressure is on. Why would dhoni give it yuvraj who just recovered from cancer. He could have just came in and played but he didn’t. 
 

Experts/lay man audience had benefit of hindsight since we are reacting based on outcome/result of the game. How on earth any captain would know what a bolwer/batter would do , except having to go on gut feel/instincts. 2024 t20 final, axar Patel was promoted. Had he got out trying to hit a six, we would all have been saying, "oh no! why not pandya, why axar" !

Edited July 3, 2024 by mikeypbadana86

[Serpico]

17 hours ago, Frustrated said:

They hv the skill, talent & resources to win ICC titles.  But their habitual obsession to keep playing a bowling heavy team is a problem.  No team in white ball history has ever won an ICC tournament by having 4 tail enders in the playing11.    On top of that, SA lacks game awareness.   Maharaj should not be batting ahead of Rabada in any circumstance, irrespective of the format.  

Jansen, Rabada and Maharaj are not tailenders, they just don't have mentality and experience to close the matches. You put cummins, starc and zampa in that situaion and they would have won the cup 100%

 

they need to invest in mental conditioning and get an aussie coach

[Lone Wolf]

14 hours ago, gattaca said:

Handling pressure different. We had IPL as well for over a decade now but still couldn’t handle the pressure of finals. We lost over 7 finals ?  We were lucky it was SA and they did what they do. 

SA produces talent in abundance... A player like Nandre Burger was on bench this WT20.

Watch  out  for David Bedingham as well.  Quality in making.

 

In next 2-3 seasons of SA20 when there is actual money in the coffers of CSA and their system you will see results.

They could leave Poms in the dust in coming 5-6 years.

Would be top contenders for home 2027 ODI WC

 

[Kron]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

SA produces talent in abundance... A player like Nandre Burger was on bench this WT20.

Watch  out  for David Bedingham as well.  Quality in making.

 

In next 2-3 seasons of SA20 when there is actual money in the coffers of CSA and their system you will see results.

They could leave Poms in the dust in coming 5-6 years.

Would be top contenders for home 2027 ODI WC

 

South africa 2045.....still waiting for a WC win.

 

 

[Lord]

58 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

SA produces talent in abundance... A player like Nandre Burger was on bench this WT20.

Watch  out  for David Bedingham as well.  Quality in making.

 

In next 2-3 seasons of SA20 when there is actual money in the coffers of CSA and their system you will see results.

They could leave Poms in the dust in coming 5-6 years.

Would be top contenders for home 2027 ODI WC

 

Talent is not in question, big match temperament is.

[Chaos]

Just now, Lord said:

Talent is not in question, big match temperament is.

whats happening? Any drama @Frustrated @Ultimate_Game?

[Kron]

33 minutes ago, Lord said:

Talent is not in question, big match temperament is.

They will never win. I hope they do. Rather them win a t20 wc next time. Or us ideally. But I really want us to win wtc first. Then perhaps odi wc or t20 wc. These days t20 wc is as good as odi wc. Odi is dying. 

[Suhaan]

9 minutes ago, Kron said:

They will never win. I hope they do. Rather them win a t20 wc next time. Or us ideally. But I really want us to win wtc first. Then perhaps odi wc or t20 wc. These days t20 wc is as good as odi wc. Odi is dying. 

They will at some point,they have actually started fighting in KOs rather than just submitting which they used to do in the past

I can trade 2 WTC titles for 1 CWC win,for me last CWC loss was humongous loss

 

Edited July 3, 2024 by Suhaan

[Kron]

32 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

They will at some point,they have actually started fighting in KOs rather than just submitting which they used to do in the past

I can trade 2 WTC titles for 1 CWC win,for me last CWC loss was humongous loss

 

Yea true good point. But more than wtc series winnin SA and eng is what I want. 

[Frustrated]

In SA we trust.  If ever there was one team whom we always loved to face in SF or Final, it was always SA.              Thank U SA team for ending our ICC title drought.  

Edited July 3, 2024 by Frustrated

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

Talent is not in question, big match temperament is.

Saf rugby side is decently clutch when it matters ... With money and more exposure they will get the job done sooner than later.

We used to say the same about England not winning a ICC trophy for so long and only had a lone T20WC at their disposal.

With bigger talent pool SAF is poised to cross the hurdle.

[Majestic]

The biggest choke has to be that run out of Allan Donald and Lance Klusenar. Absolute comedy!

[Kron]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Saf rugby side is decently clutch when it matters ... With money and more exposure they will get the job done sooner than later.

We used to say the same about England not winning a ICC trophy for so long and only had a lone T20WC at their disposal.

With bigger talent pool SAF is poised to cross the hurdle.

Bro saf rugby team is the best in the world lmao

Not decently clutch. They are the goat rugby side. Then kiwis. Australia are like maybe 6th. 

 

There are only like 8 or so serious rugby nations.